Version numbers of Lenz Decoders.?

[craigwelsh]

Im sure my Lenz Compact and Bachman Dynamis get the loco to decelerate and then accelerate properly when the direction button is altered... I'll have to check when I get a chance, pretty sure I would have found the emergency stop behaviour Bob mentions a bit odd though.

 

I don't have any of the recent + range only previous models.

[Sunnysa]

The red ( panic ) button on lenz can be set up in one (1) of two ways.

 

!. Shut the whole layout down including cutting the track power

 

or

2. Stop all trains but the track power remains on.

 

As Bob said if you only want to emergency stop the train you are operating press the reverse button. This only works with the LH100 controler. Hitting reverse with LH90 while train is in motion will cause the loco/train to come to a stop at preset decelaration rate ( CV4) then proceed in reverse direction if throttle is not zeroed.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[250BOB]

The red ( panic ) button on lenz can be set up in one (1) of two ways.

 

!. Shut the whole layout down including cutting the track power

 

or

2. Stop all trains but the track power remains on.

 

As Bob said if you only want to emergency stop the train you are operating press the reverse button. This only works with the LH100 controler. Hitting reverse with LH90 while train is in motion will cause the loco/train to come to a stop at preset decelaration rate ( CV4) then proceed in reverse direction if throttle is not zeroed.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

Yes, I had forgotten the red button gave two possible shut down procedures.....but you are absolutely right.

 

Secondly, thanks for confirming the different performances of the LH100 and LH90 when the reverse direction button is pressed, I have never used an LH90 so was not able to comment.

 

Cheers.........................Bob.

[250BOB]

I don't beleive...!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am about to eat my words . Having just fitted a new Lenz Silver mini plus decoder......it works like Ray has said . No matter when I press the reverse direction button....it emergency stops, whether or not I have it under power or not.

 

I have never seen this attribute with a Lenz decoder before.

 

So, do lenz accept this as a programming problem, and will they accept them back as faulty.????

 

Bob.

[tender]

I don't beleive...!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am about to eat my words . Having just fitted a new Lenz Silver mini plus decoder......it works like Ray has said . No matter when I press the reverse direction button....it emergency stops, whether or not I have it under power or not.

 

I have never seen this attribute with a Lenz decoder before.

 

So, do lenz accept this as a programming problem, and will they accept them back as faulty.????

 

Bob.

Hi Bob.

I'm glad i'm not the only one with this probelm, however it doesn't solve the probelm. Interesting that your having problems with the Mini+, i have three of these (purchased in the last few weeks) which are OK. Do you know the firmware no. (CV128)? Mine is 12 on the mini+ and 9 on the problematic direct+.

According to some German forum's there is a firmware upgrade for these decoders, i believe it only affects some early releases of the + range. I've contacted A&H Models but haven't got around to sending one back yet for them to have a look at. I'll try and get one off this week and post findings when returned.

Ray.

[250BOB]

Hi Ray,

I'll get back to you with the info this evening, when I go in the loft.

Were A&H aware of this problem, and are they doing something about it for you.?

Bob.

[tender]

Hi Ray,

I'll get back to you with the info this evening, when I go in the loft.

Were A&H aware of this problem, and are they doing something about it for you.?

Bob.

Hi Bob.

When i contacted A&H they wern't aware of a problem or of the firmware upgrade, but they did say to send it back and they'll have a look at it.

I'm just about to remove a offending Silver direct+ from my Sentinal to send back. The other two (Silver 21+) are in Bachman EMU's and not so easy to get at. I'll leave them in place until there's a sure fire solution.

Ray.

[250BOB]

Hi Ray,

OK....I have 2 Lenz Silver Mini Plus decoders, I've read out CV128 on my rebuilt Patriot 45545 Planet, and it is 11, this is the loco exhibiting the problem. It is a decoder I have purchased within the last 3 to 6 months approx.

 

Also I have the same decoder in my Stanier 8F 2-8-0.......now this loco does NOT exhibit the same problem, and CV128 value is 12.

 

Both decoders purchased sometime within the last 6 months...but only fitted recently.

 

I can't beleive it, as I was so adamant that this problem NEVER occurred with Lenz decoders.....spoke too soon.

Let me know what you plan to do....I would like to get it changed if possible.

 

Bob.

[tender]

Hi Ray, OK....I have 2 Lenz Silver Mini Plus decoders, I've read out CV128 on my rebuilt Patriot 45545 Planet, and it is 11, this is the loco exhibiting the problem. It is a decoder I have purchased within the last 3 to 6 months approx. Also I have the same decoder in my Stanier 8F 2-8-0.......now this loco does NOT exhibit the same problem, and CV128 value is 12. Both decoders purchased sometime within the last 6 months...but only fitted recently. I can't beleive it, as I was so adamant that this problem NEVER occurred with Lenz decoders.....spoke too soon. Let me know what you plan to do....I would like to get it changed if possible. Bob.

 

Hi Bob.

I've just checked CV128 from my two EPB's both fitted with Silver21+ decoders. One has a CV128 value of 12 and is Ok, the other problematic one is 10.

So it looks like firmware versions 9,10 and 11 are the ones to steer clear of. Incedently my three Mini+ decoders that are ok (cv128=12) have a suffix 02 (10311-02). Not sure if thats relivent as the all the Silver21+ are 10321-01.

The direct+ is going back to A&H tomorrow.

Ray.

[250BOB]

Very interested to hear what A&H say, and do about this.

Keep me informed please Ray.

Thanks..........Bob.

[tender]

HI Bob.

I emailed Lenz GbmH last night, and this morning i got a reply. It confirmed the probelm with the firmware numbers and included an attachment with the latest firmware for all the Plus range decoders.

The only down side is that you need the Lenz Decoder Programmer to update them or send them back for upgrade.

I then contacted A&H again and they said they will contact Lenz and get back to me. Still waiting.

I'm seriously considering getting the programmer as it will save removing the decoders from my EPB's, something i wouldn't relish if i had to do, their not the easiest things to get into. It's a case of balancing the cost against the convieniance.

I'll give A&H another ring in the morning.

Ray.

[Nigelcliffe]

Unless the locos are irreplaceable, I'd just ask A&H to pick up the costs of return postage (and insurance) of the complete locos. If the locos are irreplaceable, or if its cheaper for A&H, I'd ask for a loan of a decoder programmer for a week or so to do the updates. You shouldn't have to buy another device to fix a faulty product.

 

- Nigel

[250BOB]

Unless the locos are irreplaceable, I'd just ask A&H to pick up the costs of return postage (and insurance) of the complete locos. If the locos are irreplaceable, or if its cheaper for A&H, I'd ask for a loan of a decoder programmer for a week or so to do the updates. You shouldn't have to buy another device to fix a faulty product.

 

- Nigel

 

Nigel has a good point there Ray,......I think mine is going to be easier.

 

We didnt meet up to say hello at LYDCC Nigel.....thats a pity, I would have liked to have met you. I did attend the first Seminar on Touchcab at about 1pm on the Saturday, but didnt get the opportunity to sit in on any more. I think the format of the exbn, with its DCC related talks, was excellent, and will try and stay much longer another year, Its great to be amongst folk who love DCC, and are so enthusiastic to pass on their knowledge.

I did notice a superb touring caravan site alongside the ELR, next year I may tow our caravan up there and stay for the weekend......not sure what the Mrs will say about that though.....but I think I can have a good guess.

Bob

[tender]

 

Nigel has a good point there Ray,......

 

I never thought of that, i'll see what A&H say in the morning.

 

Ray.

[250BOB]

Hi Guys,

I fitted another new Lenz Decoder tonite, into a new Bachmann 37.

It is a Lenz Silver Plus....bought about a month ago.........it is exhibiting the same properties as my Lenz Silver Mini Plus that I recently fitted......it does an emergency stop when I hit the reverse button, whether under power, or just gliding to stand still....if I hit the direction button before it stops, it kills it immediatley.

Anyone got any further with this issue, please let me know.

Thanks.....................Bob

[RFS]

Been reading this thread with interest. I've been experiencing a problem with a Bachmann 2EPB when it's run under DCC automation (RR&Co Traincontroller). Intermittently, when TC brings it to a stand in a station or fiddle yard, it doesn't completely stop but continues to creep forward for a while, moving anything from a few inches to a couple of feet. I have several 4CEPs which don't exhibit this problem. I'm assuming it's the decoder as it's the latest level - Silver21+ which has a value of 12 in CV 128. The two latest 4CEPs have the same decoder also at level 12. I can't think it's the motor as it would only move if the decoder were supplying it with power. And when I run it in a consist with a 4CEP the consist sometimes has the problem and it's obvious the 2EPB is pushing the 4CEP so TC can't be the problem either.

 

Is 12 the latest firmware level?

[250BOB]

Been reading this thread with interest. I've been experiencing a problem with a Bachmann 2EPB when it's run under DCC automation (RR&Co Traincontroller). Intermittently, when TC brings it to a stand in a station or fiddle yard, it doesn't completely stop but continues to creep forward for a while, moving anything from a few inches to a couple of feet. I have several 4CEPs which don't exhibit this problem. I'm assuming it's the decoder as it's the latest level - Silver21+ which has a value of 12 in CV 128. The two latest 4CEPs have the same decoder also at level 12. I can't think it's the motor as it would only move if the decoder were supplying it with power. And when I run it in a consist with a 4CEP the consist sometimes has the problem and it's obvious the 2EPB is pushing the 4CEP so TC can't be the problem either.

 

Is 12 the latest firmware level?

I dont know the answer to that question.........but I think its time a few more of us started to drop A&H Models a line, asking about the problems......me for one.

 

I have just checked CV128 value on this latest problematic Lenz Silver Plus......its value is 10.

Bob

[tender]

Been reading this thread with interest. I've been experiencing a problem with a Bachmann 2EPB when it's run under DCC automation (RR&Co Traincontroller). Intermittently, when TC brings it to a stand in a station or fiddle yard, it doesn't completely stop but continues to creep forward for a while, moving anything from a few inches to a couple of feet. I have several 4CEPs which don't exhibit this problem. I'm assuming it's the decoder as it's the latest level - Silver21+ which has a value of 12 in CV 128. The two latest 4CEPs have the same decoder also at level 12. I can't think it's the motor as it would only move if the decoder were supplying it with power. And when I run it in a consist with a 4CEP the consist sometimes has the problem and it's obvious the 2EPB is pushing the 4CEP so TC can't be the problem either.

 

Is 12 the latest firmware level?

 

Hi RFS.

Thats very interesting. I've had the very same problem with my 2EPB and 4CEP (with version 10 firmware). The other 2EPB and 4CEP (with version 12 firmware) have been ok. However, i only have the demo TC software (with a view to purchase) so it shuts down after 15 minutes. Maybe it's not had time to show in the version 12 decoders. Not had this problem in Rocrail. Version 12 is the latest.

 

 

Bob.

Regarding A&H.

 

I did give them a ring earlier this week but didn't get much joy.

As i didn't purchase the decoders from them i sort of expected that, but they are the main importer/distributer so thought they may have been a bit more on the ball. In the end they said i could send one back for them to have a look at.

It's going in the post tomorrow.

[RFS]

 

Hi RFS.

Thats very interesting. I've had the very same problem with my 2EPB and 4CEP (with version 10 firmware). The other 2EPB and 4CEP (with version 12 firmware) have been ok. However, i only have the demo TC software (with a view to purchase) so it shuts down after 15 minutes. Maybe it's not had time to show in the version 12 decoders. Not had this problem in Rocrail. Version 12 is the latest.

 

 

 

 

Thanks - so it looks as though it could be a firmware issue. I decided yesterday to bite the bullet and swap decoders between the 2EPB and a 4CEP. The 4CEP's decoder is probably just the Sliver21 and not the plus version as it's a couple of years old. CV 128 in this one has a value of 5. With the decoders swapped neither unit is showing a problem so far. I've got 3 4CEPs now with version 12 firmware as was in the 2EPB so I'll keep playing trains and see what happens. I did do a full decoder reset and recalibrate both units - this didn't work before when I was trying to sort the 2EPB.

[RFS]

Well I spoke too soon. Having swapped decoders and reprofiled, the problem remains with the 2EPB using the 2-year-old Lenz Silver21. I now believe it's an issue with Traincontroller, as the unit slows to the stop marker and then intermittently keeps moving at TC's threshold speed before stopping - anything from 2-20 inches beyond the stop marker. It happens in different blocks and running in either direction but is very intermittent - perhaps no more than 10% of the time or less.

 

The next test is to delete the engine entry altogether in TC in case it's somehow corrupted and define a new one with a different name. I'll see how that goes.

[tender]

Well I spoke too soon. Having swapped decoders and reprofiled, the problem remains with the 2EPB using the 2-year-old Lenz Silver21. I now believe it's an issue with Traincontroller, as the unit slows to the stop marker and then intermittently keeps moving at TC's threshold speed before stopping - anything from 2-20 inches beyond the stop marker. It happens in different blocks and running in either direction but is very intermittent - perhaps no more than 10% of the time or less.

 

The next test is to delete the engine entry altogether in TC in case it's somehow corrupted and define a new one with a different name. I'll see how that goes.

If that doesn't work i suggest a post on the Traincontroller forum. Will watch this with interest as i'm almost tempted to switch to TC. I thought this might be connected with the direction/stop issue with the Lenz + version10 decoders. I'll try another test when i get the my decoders upgraded to ver12.

[Izzy]

Having followed this thread with some interest, might I issue a small warning with regard to sending the faulty Silver Mini+ chips to A&H for repair, and the possible timescale involved?

 

I have only ever purchased two Lenz chips, both Silver Mini+ types, one wired, one NEM651, and both about six months ago. The wired was faulty from the outset, (totally dead), and was replaced the next day by the retailer by a second NEM 651 as no more wired were available.

 

This seemed to work fine, and I took it at the time that the dead stop that occurred when the other direction was chosen while the loco was still running was just the way Lenz chips worked although I wasn’t particularly impressed.

 

The other also seemed fine when tested, but when actually used a couple of months later also proved faulty. As some time had passed since purchase I had to contact A&H. They were very helpful as another problem was that I had lost the purchase receipt for the chip. They stated that it would have to be sent away to Germany for warranty repair.

 

This seemed fair enough, but some two months later when I contacted them again, having heard nothing in the meantime, they advised me that it was still in Germany. As I needed it for a new loco I had, they then provided a new replacement from their own stock.

 

The original Silver mini+ firmware is 11, the new later replacement for the second is 12, and it doesn’t have the dead stop issue of the first. Considering the repair timescale apparently involved I shan’t bother trying to get its firmware changed.

 

I bought a CT74 to replace the second Silver mini+ when it wouldn’t work, and while the Lenz motor control may be a step change better than other chips for N gauge use, the CT74/75 motor control is another step change better than the Lenz for less cost and no problems, so I hope you will forgive me if I say I doubt I will be purchasing any more Lenz chips after this encounter with them.

 

Izzy

[250BOB]

Having followed this thread with some interest, might I issue a small warning with regard to sending the faulty Silver Mini+ chips to A&H for repair, and the possible timescale involved?

 

I have only ever purchased two Lenz chips, both Silver Mini+ types, one wired, one NEM651, and both about six months ago. The wired was faulty from the outset, (totally dead), and was replaced the next day by the retailer by a second NEM 651 as no more wired were available.

 

This seemed to work fine, and I took it at the time that the dead stop that occurred when the other direction was chosen while the loco was still running was just the way Lenz chips worked although I wasn’t particularly impressed.

 

The other also seemed fine when tested, but when actually used a couple of months later also proved faulty. As some time had passed since purchase I had to contact A&H. They were very helpful as another problem was that I had lost the purchase receipt for the chip. They stated that it would have to be sent away to Germany for warranty repair.

 

This seemed fair enough, but some two months later when I contacted them again, having heard nothing in the meantime, they advised me that it was still in Germany. As I needed it for a new loco I had, they then provided a new replacement from their own stock.

 

The original Silver mini+ firmware is 11, the new later replacement for the second is 12, and it doesn’t have the dead stop issue of the first. Considering the repair timescale apparently involved I shan’t bother trying to get its firmware changed.

 

I bought a CT74 to replace the second Silver mini+ when it wouldn’t work, and while the Lenz motor control may be a step change better than other chips for N gauge use, the CT74/75 motor control is another step change better than the Lenz for less cost and no problems, so I hope you will forgive me if I say I doubt I will be purchasing any more Lenz chips after this encounter with them.

 

Izzy

Thanks Izzy.......you must post more often, yours is a very honest, and considered reply.

 

I am almost completely a Lenz decoder user, 90% plus of mine are lenz, which I use very successfully with my Lenz System.

 

Its just these two decoders that I have bought in the last 6 months that are not firmware 12, that exhibit the problem.

 

I think I may just accept that these two decoders give this issue, and make sure that any further purchases are of firmware 12, and tell my model shop that I will return them if they are not.

 

Being a 00 gauge modeller, I havent heard of your CT74/75 decoders, whose are they.? Its a pity you have been put off Lenz, but understandable by your experience.

Thanks again for your reply.

Bob.

[Izzy]

Thanks Izzy.......you must post more often, yours is a very honest, and considered reply.

 

I am almost completely a Lenz decoder user, 90% plus of mine are lenz, which I use very successfully with my Lenz System.

 

Its just these two decoders that I have bought in the last 6 months that are not firmware 12, that exhibit the problem.

 

I think I may just accept that these two decoders give this issue, and make sure that any further purchases are of firmware 12, and tell my model shop that I will return them if they are not.

 

Being a 00 gauge modeller, I havent heard of your CT74/75 decoders, whose are they.? Its a pity you have been put off Lenz, but understandable by your experience.

Thanks again for your reply.

Bob.

 

 

Hello Bob,

 

CT electronics is another quite well known European maker like Lenz and Zimo. Most DCC specialists stock their products. I use Coastal DCC since they are located near me and give excellent service (usual disclaimer). I believe that the CT proprietor Mr Tran used to work for Lenz, ( I may be wrong).

 

I was recommended to them by fellow members of the 2mmSA, and for small, low current, more efficient motors they offer far superior motor control at the lower motor revolutions than any other decoder I have encountered to date. This is above and beyond what can be achieved by the tweaking of Cv's, BEMF, acceleration, decceleration, speed curves etc. I am told Zimo come close, but their chips are generally much larger. CT chips are very small, the N/Z types, and often the only ones that will fit in the available space.

 

My understanding is that the differences between the various makes of chips in respect of motor control lessen as the motors and corresponding power requirements increase in size, but that any of the European makers low speed motor control aspects are better than those from the Amercan makers such as Soundtrax, Digitrax etc, and at least as far as N/2mm size goes I can confirm this to be true. Why this should be so I have absolutely no idea.

 

Izzy

[Nigelcliffe]

 

Being a 00 gauge modeller, I havent heard of your CT74/75 decoders, whose are they.? Its a pity you have been put off Lenz, but understandable by your experience.

Thanks again for your reply.

Bob.

 

CT = CT Elektronik, otherwise known as "Tran" after its owner. Maker of the best motor control for tiny motors you get(*) and also the smallest DCC chips on the market (quite an achievement to be smallest and best control). Also provider of the worst instructions/advice on their decoders; frequently incorrect or misleading, even in the German originals (leading to a number of hobby provided instruction sets). Herr Tran used to work at Zimo, then left and started making his own stuff.

 

On the whole, not worth considering in 4mm scale, except in unusual circumstances. I have one in a 4mm loco, which is a tiny Hudswell Clark 0-4-0T.

 

CT also make very small and medium sized (and decently capable) sound decoders, and very small sound speakers (the "sugar cube"), though Zimo now offer a smaller cube speaker than CT. The sound decoder suffers from being difficult to master its programming; there is one commercial supplier of CT sounds in the UK.

 

 

(*) several years ago I did a load of detailed tests on decoder performance. The test locos were from my collection of 2mm scratchbuilds, N RTR and 4mm kit builds. The smallest locos used Faulhaber 816 and 1016 motors, the N were Farish (UK made) 5-poles, the 4mm kits used a variety of Mashima motors.

In the smaller motors, the bottom speed control of all DCC decoders except two were poor - sufficiently bad to say "forget DCC"; my analogue controller used for comparison was a lot better. The two good performers were Zimo and CT, both better than analogue and achieving better than 8 times lower bottom speed control compared to Lenz and better than 12 times lower speed control compared to TCS & Digitrax.

As the motor sizes increased, the poor performance issues when compared to analogue disappeared. With most medium OO motors the differences between CT/Zimo and Lenz was a lot smaller (though Zimo still superior to Lenz by a significant margin). The CT chips I was using (DCX74's) were not really powerful enough for the medium/larger OO motors.

 

 

- Nigel