S&DJR 3Fs

[buffalo]

Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open for them.

 

Nick

[railroadbill]

Thanks Nick and Coombe Martin for the info about steam heating connections - and also that a couple of "imported" 3Fs had tender vents. My large express loco models have tended to have steam heat connections fitted but I haven't really considered smaller locos. Another detailing project looms...

[Captain Kernow]

Would you recommend the Alan Hammond book? I don't think I've ever had a chance to look at a copy.

I ended up buying each one of them, except the most recent one (published circa 18 months ago). There are indeed some less-common views in them, often taken by railway staff using equipment and techniques that are obviously not up to the Ivo Peters standard, but the relative rareity or unusual angles makes them worthwhile as photos.

 

However, I find that I tire somewhat of the writing style, as although some of the stories of 'what went on' are interesting, there's something about the overall style and presentation that doesn't quite 'hit the mark' for me. However, if you haven't got any of them, they are worth considering for the photos alone, although I definitely wouldn't pay over the odds for a 'rare' copy.

[Blandford1969]

Sadly I do not have any rear shots of 3fs in my personal collection that show the rear of the tender all stopping short of the end, but I do have pleantly of smokebox first shots.

 

There have been various comments about 3fs with tender vents for which I offer the following

 

The first is 43792 seen at Highbridge in November 1950 having just returned from Bristol for repairs. The second

 

Is of 43201 seen at Highbridge in June 1953 and the last may show another with tender vents, but I am not sure and can't read the number

 

However the location and date are unusual showing a train from Burnham in 1950 approaching Highbridge for Templecombe with LSWR stock.

 

If its of interest I will post a couple of the pure S&D ones.

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan

Edited February 5, 2012 by Blandford1969

[PaulT]

 

 

If its of interest I will post a couple of the pure S&D ones.

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan

Yes please

[buffalo]

Hi Duncan,

The tender on 43792 is almost certainly the same as in the two photos in the Arlett & Lockett volume that I mentioned earlier in post 46. I'm not so sure about your photo of 43201. That looks to me like a 2750 gallon tender -- narrower and lower tank, sloping front to the coal rails, no high coal plate, etc. -- and I think that's a large lump of coal rather than a vent. 43201 was an original S&D Bulldog (No 64) as is the unidentified engine in your third photo (note the sanding lever above the reversing lever).The tender here looks like the same type as behind 43201, though here there does appear to be something that looks like the mushroom shaped top of a vent directly in line with the telegraph pole. I'm not wholly convinced though and will have to look out for more photos...

 

Nick

 

ps. More photos? Yes, please!

Edited February 6, 2012 by buffalo

[Blandford1969]

Dear all,

 

I thought this table showing all of the former S&D 3fs might be useful. I will do a separate one showing the tenders allocated to non S&D locos as at the begining of Jan 1956. With thanks to Russ Garner for the information on the as built condition and BR/ Ivo Peters for 1st Jan 1956

 

3f.pdf

 

Photos of some of them will follow, probably at the weekend.

 

kind regards

 

Duncan

Edited February 6, 2012 by Blandford1969

[buffalo]

Thanks, Duncan. I take it you've not found a way to embed a table either?

 

Nick

[Combe Martin]

The tender on 43792 is almost certainly the same as in the two photos in the Arlett & Lockett volume that I mentioned earlier in post 46.

Having studied every published picture 'under the sun' of S&D 3Fs, I would say that this tender is larger than all the others, so suspect that it's a 3500 gallon one. Note the height of the top beading on the tender side compared to that on the cab side. Also it has the sloping front to the tender coal rails and no front coal plate, which is something that isn't on the 3250 gallon tender but is on the smaller tenders (2750 and 2950), so this tender is almost certainly different.

[buffalo]

Having studied every published picture 'under the sun' of S&D 3Fs, I would say that this tender is larger than all the others, so suspect that it's a 3500 gallon one...

Yes, I'm fairly certain you're right about this. Duncan's first photo above is particularly useful in this regard as it is taken at the same height as the upper beading of the tender and clearly shows how high it is relative to the cab side.

 

Nick

[Blandford1969]

Hi Nick,

 

No I've not found a way of getting a table in without it going completley wrong. In terms of 43792 - I have not yet looked at the non S&D locos which were normally either Dubbs or Derby builds, but will see what I can find this evening. With regard to photos in my personal collection a quick check last night showed I have all except 3198 and 3260 - however I need to check my ealier (non published photos) to see if I have either of those. I will also do a summary of liveries in those. The photos all come from the young lad who helped Charlie King to shunt Highbridge in 1953 for Ivo's shot of the 1P's (He also took one of that spread as well) All his photos are from 1948 to 1953 when he appears to have moved away possibly to start his training as a signal engineer at Swindon.

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan

[buffalo]

Hi Duncan,

 

I think the only one I've never seen a photo of is 3198. 3260 was the one that fell in the drain and was cut up in 1949. I think the only photo I've seen is the one from the SDRT Atthill collection of it in the drain with a coach and another 3F standing on the track behind. That photo gives a very clear view of the top of its 3250 gallon tender. The other illusive one is 3211, for which I've only seen quite early photos (as mentioned here).

Interesting to learn about the source of your photos. Coincidentally, I've just been going through my copy of Somerset & Dorset in the fifties looking for 3Fs and had been distracted for some time looking at those pages again.

 

Nick

[Blandford1969]

I was lucky to get most of his collection a few years ago, in all there are about 120 shots, mainly of 1Ps on the branch, oddly for someone who went on to be a S&T engineer of some repute there were none of signalling on the line.

 

In terms of other shots try these via the main S&D trust website

 

The first is of 3464 at West Pennard in 1942 http://www.sdrt.org....f36f631bae146b5

 

43228 is seen at Burnham on Sea with its BR number in the LMS style of numbering http://www.sdrt.org....c37db64a07d0c45

 

Number 63 is seen at Everchreech http://www.sdrt.org....c37db64a07d0c45

 

43194 seen near Cole http://www.sdrt.org....c37db64a07d0c45

 

3211 seen near Cole http://www.sdrt.org....f36f631bae146b5

 

43248 seen at Glastonbury http://www.sdrt.org....f36f631bae146b5

 

43484 seen piloting a train at Binegar http://www.sdrt.org....ff36f631bae146b

 

There are various ones on Flickr as well,

 

43419 near Glastonbury http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-seaford/6577843775/in/pool-451177@N22.

 

43436 at Highbridge in 1959 http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/6272436297/sizes/l/in/pool-451177@N22/

 

43428 at Templecombe http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/5085440289/in/pool-451177@N22

 

43216 at Highbridge in 1961 http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-seaford/4927224719/in/pool-451177@N22

 

43682 at Highbridge http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-seaford/4927225577/in/pool-451177@N22

Edited February 7, 2012 by Blandford1969

[buffalo]

...

3211 seen near Cole http://www.sdrt.org....f36f631bae146b5

...

Thanks for the links, Duncan. Unfortunately, 3211 remains elusive as that link only produces a blank page...

I had a quick look through the trust galleries, but didn't spot it. However, and completely off topic though perhaps of interest to other S&D aficionados, I did spot this photo of a Stevens flap ground signal and was reminded of this recent thread showing details of a restored Scottish example.

 

Nick

[RailWest]

IIRC the S&D example in the gallery was indeed confirmed later as being at Moorewood. The Scottish example has a number of differences, tho' essentially the same basic style.

[Blandford1969]

Hi Nick,

 

I have realised the reason why, and that's for some reason most of the S&D trust galleries are hidden away in the members only section and looking at that image it is in that section sadly. However most of the images in there have come from other sources rather than the trust, so in relation to 3211 I have spoken with the copyright owner and will be able to post it.

 

Some pure S&D machines to come this weekend.

 

kind regards

 

Duncan

Edited February 11, 2012 by Blandford1969

[jack768]

This one intrigues me. I must have just about every S&D picture book 'under the sun', and I've done a huge picture analysis of the lot, and 43211 dosn't appear anywhere, ie .. no published photo's of it on the S&D (well not in BR days). Also, it dosn't appear to have been allocated to any of Bath, Templecombe or Highbridge sheds. What happened to it ?

I know this post is a little old but about 43211 (S&D 66) She must have been naughty as the was sent away never to see the S&D again. As far as I can tell she went to Chesterfield and ended up at 9E - Trafford Park (Manchester)

Edited March 27, 2017 by jack768

[Blandford1969]

I know this post is a little old but about 43211 (S&D 66) She must have been naughty as the was sent away never to see the S&D again. As far as I can tell she went to Chesterfield and ended up at 9E - Trafford Park (Manchester)

By 1948 it was allocated to Hasland, which is probably why finding shots of her are challenging.

[Blandford1969]

Sorry to resurrect a thread after 3 years. I have been working on a scratch built 2950 gallon tender  for 43216 and came back to this thread and then went back to other sources. In doing so I ended up putting something together for myself and wondered if it was of interest to others?

 

Buldog locomotives on the S&D.pdf

[Blandford1969]

Glad this post is proving useful to people.

[Blandford1969]

It seems that with the change of hosting my document on the 3f's also went along with images. Therefore it is reattached and will hopefully prove useful to those modelling the S&D Bulldogs. 

 

Buldog locomotives on the S&D.pdf

 

I hope you find it useful and look forward to seeing more Bulldogs. 

 

Best wishes

Duncan

[PaulG]

41 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

It seems that with the change of hosting my document on the 3f's also went along with images. Therefore it is reattached and will hopefully prove useful to those modelling the S&D Bulldogs. 

 

Buldog locomotives on the S&D.pdf 1.81 MB · 1 download

 

I hope you find it useful and look forward to seeing more Bulldogs. 

 

Best wishes

Duncan

Thank you Duncan,  most helpful to those of us with little knowledge on S&D, but entrusted to rebuild an S&D layout!

 

Paul 

[Blandford1969]

4 hours ago, PaulG said:

Thank you Duncan,  most helpful to those of us with little knowledge on S&D, but entrusted to rebuild an S&D layout!

 

Paul 

Your welcome. Hopefully it helps. If there are views anyone is looking for let me know, I have a few negatives of the S&D machines and others of course. 

It was written to help me with my modelling (which I just need to get on with) 

 

Duncan

[geoffers]

Great document and very handy. Many thanks.

In Ian Allan's colour album "On Somerset and Dorset Lines" by Robert Robotham, published 1995, there is a photograph of Templecombe shed in March 1961 with several locos present (photo attributed to Colour Rail  (SD267)). One of the locos is stated to be 3F no. 43474. This is interesting as I have never found any reference  to this particular loco on the S&D elsewhere. Indeed it was supposed to be based in Bedford according to Longworth's researches. It is also one of the 3Fs released by Bachmann which would be a handy match. I have always assumed that the photographer noted the number down incorrectly, and that it may have been 43734. Or it was an unrecorded and short transfer or loan, though somehow I doubt this. The other locos noted are 44417, 43436,73052, 40171, and 40126 which were all locos that appeared at Templecombe (the Stanier 2-6-2Ts very briefly of course).

[Blandford1969]

On 28/10/2022 at 16:54, geoffers said:

Great document and very handy. Many thanks.

In Ian Allan's colour album "On Somerset and Dorset Lines" by Robert Robotham, published 1995, there is a photograph of Templecombe shed in March 1961 with several locos present (photo attributed to Colour Rail  (SD267)). One of the locos is stated to be 3F no. 43474. This is interesting as I have never found any reference  to this particular loco on the S&D elsewhere. Indeed it was supposed to be based in Bedford according to Longworth's researches. It is also one of the 3Fs released by Bachmann which would be a handy match. I have always assumed that the photographer noted the number down incorrectly, and that it may have been 43734. Or it was an unrecorded and short transfer or loan, though somehow I doubt this. The other locos noted are 44417, 43436,73052, 40171, and 40126 which were all locos that appeared at Templecombe (the Stanier 2-6-2Ts very briefly of course).

I will take a look through all the things I have for any other references. You may be right on how the number is on the list of course. I have so many different images.