Ebay scam - "reverse shill" bidding

[RFS]

I thought I'd raise awareness of this issue as I've just encountered it, but I don't know how widespread it is. Basically, it works like this:

 

- A buyer finds an item they want that is currently at a low price

- Buyer bids a very high amount - perhaps 2-3 times its real worth

- An accomplice (or the same buyer with another id) immediately places an even higher bid

- The first bidder's inflated bid is now the current price, deterring anyone else from bidding

- Seconds before the auction ends, the second buyer's high bid is retracted, leaving the first buyer with a "bargain".

 

This happened to me with one bid of £350 and another of £800 entered a minute later for an item that should fetch no more than £150+. 

 

I've reported this to Ebay under "invalid retracted bids" and I won't complete the sale until they've investigated.  Most likely I'll have to relist with these buyers blocked.

 

It's easy to spot - a retracted bid for a huge amount cannot be hidden so if you do get a retracted bid late on in your sale, then be very, very suspicious! It's also been referred to a "bid shielding".

 

 

[shortliner]

Sorry - but that doesn't make any sense to me - the accomplices bid becomes the high bid, and when retracted leaves the first buyer - with, as you say, an already inflated bid - paying over the odds. I don't see how he has got a Bargain?

[RFS]

Sorry - but that doesn't make any sense to me - the accomplices bid becomes the high bid, and when retracted leaves the first buyer - with, as you say, an already inflated bid - paying over the odds. I don't see how he has got a Bargain?

If the current bid is £100, and that bidder's maximum is £110, you only need to bid £111 to be winning the auction.  Due to the way EBay's automatic bidding process works, if you bid £350 then you will be shown as winning the auction at £111. (If someone then bids £150 then Ebay automatically rebids for you, so you will still be the winning bidder, but now at £151 etc.)  But the second huge bid means the current price is shown as £351 so no-one else can bid. When that huge bid is retracted you "win" the auction at £111.

[shortliner]

Thank you - I now understand your point, and agree with it!

[Horsetan]

Highly interesting.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

After the explanation, I can see what you are driving at and can see that it would work quite well. Of course, it now being public knowledge on here means that E Bay must be aware of it and are taking steps to counteract it.

 

I was unaware that one could retract bids late in the auction, you certainly can't withdraw the item.

 

If you really wanted to there is nothing to prevent you having another friend of yours bid the item up to what you really want for the item plus something for your effort, then the two conspirators will be left having to pay up or withdraw BOTH bids.

 

As an aside though this conspiracy only works for items of a known value that are being badly marketed. From my experience properly displayed items fetch their true value and the auto bid process will reflect that 9 times out of 10 and if I saw an item going through at three times its real value late into the auction I would review the bids anyway. Sellers can see who is bidding and reject bids that are suspicious or ill founded

[Horsetan]

....I was unaware that one could retract bids late in the auction, you certainly can't withdraw the item.....

 

I had understood that bid retraction was only allowed until the last 24 hours of the auction, after which no bidder was permitted to pull out. If what RFS describes is true, then it looks like eBay has relaxed its bidding rules.

[The Stationmaster]

But the 'fiddle' suggests that Ebay bids are akin to commission bids at a live auction and is that really the case?  From what you say I presume that it must be in which case it ceases to be a genuine auction and can very easily be fiddled - in fact so easily I'm a little surprised that it actually works like that because all it means is that you simply bid high in order to win but you might never pay what you actually bid (just as with a commission bid at a live auction).

[RFS]

Ebay bids are indeed like commission bids - nothing wrong in that by itself.  The problem arises when excessively high bids are retracted at the last moment of the auction, and for this to "show a profit" two separate buyers have to work in unison. 

 

In my case the two very high bids were placed 5 minutes before the auction ended, and the highest then retracted with 20 seconds to go. As most buyers tend to bid in the last few minutes, this essentially locked everyone else out.

 

I believe the retracting buyer has done this before.  The "winning" buyer has made no contact (both individuals are registered as being in London -  for a "collection in person" item in Derbyshire?). I've reported to Ebay but don't think anything will happen quickly. I'm going to wait a week and then relist with these two buyers blocked from bidding.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The mechanism fault is in ebay permitting bids to be retracted at all. The no nonsense approach is that only the high bidder's death before the gavel goes down is effective in retracting that bid. And even with the high bid removed, there is still a mechanism fault, the high bid has still wound the underbid up to whatever was the maximum of the underbidder. That should not unwind...

[rope runner]

The mechanism fault is in ebay permitting bids to be retracted at all.

 

I've retracted bids in the past due to the description of the item changing, it's a necessary tool in this instance and comes with the territory of internet selling. 

 

Ebay won't allow bid withdrawals in the last 24 hours in any case, and this is precisely to combat bid shielding.

 

Paul A.

[RFS]

 

Ebay won't allow bid withdrawals in the last 24 hours in any case, and this is precisely to combat bid shielding.

 

Paul A.

 

 

Not true actually  - these are Ebay's bid retraction rules.  As I experienced a buyer can place a bid 5 minutes before the auction ends and retract it seconds before it ends. 

 

1. Up to 12 hours before the end of the listing

   • All bids you've placed on the item will be cancelled automatically

2. During the last 12 hours of the listing

   • Only your most recent bid will be cancelled, provided that the bid retraction form is submitted within an hour of your bid

   • If you want to cancel a bid placed more than an hour ago, you'll need to contact the seller to cancel your bid