DJH SNCF Class 231D in HO Scale

[DIW]

Perhaps this topic will bring to mind to some members a thread on the old RM Web, in which I received some wonderful answers to a few questions I posed regarding a particular member of the SNCF 231D class.

 

Since then I have obtained the DJH kit, and more recently have been able to make a start on it.

 

Here are the components:

 

 

And indeed the instructions are in French. The motor and gearbox supplied are different to those described in the instructions, and the gearbox comes with its own set of instructions in English. That may be of consternation to a constructor across the channel, but at least for me it was one part I could read quickly! The kit includes parts for various versions of the locomotive.

 

The first task was to build the basic chassis.

 

 

Next it needed to be 'darkened or painted, as per choice'.

 

 

The wheels are re-fitted, along with the motor. I should be able to add a flywheel once I know how much room is available inside the boiler/firebox.

 

 

 

The next task is to assemble and fit the valve gear, which will need a little bit of time when I can sit quietly and work through what I think the instructions say.

 

 

(However there are one or two things in the way at the moment, most particularly getting the wheels cleaned on the mountain railway stock ready for the next exhibition).

 

 

I have a few more questions though for the knowledgeable:

 

The locomotive in the pictures in the old thread looks to be in a very well kept condition - particularly so when it is considered that there was not much time left for steam. Bearing in mind that thre has probably been a bit of colour deterioration in the original slides over the years,

• Should the model be painted in gloss black or satin black to represent the locomotive's condition in the pictures?
• What colour is the lining - white, cream, something else? Gloss or matt?

To replicate the pictured loco I would need the correct plates. I have found these people who offer this service . Has anyone used them before?

 

I have some rather general questions about what I would be able to haul behind the model in My Little World:

• Which carriages would typically have been used in the period 1965 to 1980 on loco hauled services in the Brittany region? Both local services and long distance.
• Were there any (non-electric) loco hauled specials which would have run from the Nantes region through to the French/Swiss border, possibly beyond?

 

Tune in next month for the next exciting episode........

 

Dave

[Horsetan]

Some amazing stuff on that French site!

[DIW]

I have made a start on the valve gear......

 

 

 

The valve linkage came as a pre-assembled set, which is convenient for identifying the pieces but not so easy for smoothing down the sharp edges! The rivets were very slack, but a gentle squeeze with fine-nosed pliers soon tightened it up nicely.

 

I have some questions.......

 

The vavle linkage is connected to the piston rod and con rod at the crosshead with a small nut and bolt. Are there any suggestions as to how I can prevent the nut working loose in use, but still be able to unassemble the nut and bolt if required?

 

Has anyone any answers to the questions in my first post?

[jwealleans]

suggestions as to how I can prevent the nut working loose in use, but still be able to unassemble the nut and bolt if required?

 

I use Tacky Wax (available on Ebay) for this purpose for coach bogie securing nuts and the like. Whether it would work with valve gear and the extra strain I don't know. There are some grades of Loctite but you'd have to be careful not to lock it so firmly you'd destroy it if you tried to remove it.

 

From memory the lining was white on black SNCF locos. I'd finish it satin; gloss looks all wrong on a model and tends to obscure detail.

 

I'd try the SNCF Society for your stock and working questions.

[pewky]

Hi,

 

Sorry I caught that thread a bit late.

 

For the livery of your loco this may help:

 

http://ffmf.railfrance.org/mondial/5MMR/asoc/zero/vitrin231DOuest_AlainLEBORGNE.jpg

 

 

Concerning the rolling stock, I would need further investigation. Bare in mind that the french stock in HO is quite limited and rather expensive.

 

Were there any (non-electric) loco hauled specials which would have run from the Nantes region through to the French/Swiss border, possibly beyond?

before the SNCF took over there were in France ( you may know that) few companies (PO, OUEST , PLM...) like in Britain (LMS, GWR and so forth) those travels were unlikely to be done. Even when the SNCF took over many lines were running through Paris with a change of station. Again I will need more info about that.

 

 

Hope this help, but again you may know all this.

 

 

I am french myself so if you need any translation for the instruction let me know.

 

Like your work. Have you build other DJH kits or is it the first one?

 

Luc

[DIW]

Just a little bit more progress, I finished the valve gear on the first side.

 

 

I'll take this opportunity to thank the readers who have posted comments and replies. In posting order;

 

Horsetan -

Yes it is a super site, something like 'Mainly Trains' for French modelling. When I know if I want anything in addition to the custom-made number plates, I'll sort out an order and report back on how well it goes.

 

Jwealleans -

I'll try some thread-lock on some of the tiny nuts and bolts I use to secure funicular cable rollers into their brackets, and see how that is. If it seems fine I'll try it on the valve gear - crosshead nut and bolt. If not, I'll think again..........

I bought a can of Satin black this weekend - Your comment on gloss helped tip the balance! Further photographic finds have come to light which confirm your memory of the white lining.

I have recently obtained a large number of SNCF society magazine back numbers. I have bookmarked both (!) photographs I found of a 231D. I'll need a bit of time to find out if there are the historical articles I need for the stock working (when I need a daily rail commute for such reading, I don't have one).

 

Pewky -

That is a fine model you linked to. It is in the green livery - I am making the model in the SNCF black livery. The angle of the photograph of the model is very useful for some of the top detail.

I am used to limited and expensive stock, my exhibition layout is S scale Swiss mountains. My current (slow) build is a HO scale layout located near Interlaken in Switzerland, set in late 70s early 80s. There are extensive carriage sidings at Interlaken Ost, which allowed for the stabling of a wide range of international stock. Accordingly if there were ever any SNCF workings from Brittany to Berne, it is possible that the train would have terminated at Interlaken. If we now move to My Little World, we will find that a 231D did get preserved after all. In a vague attempt to maintain a sense of reasonableness, I would like to find out if such an occasion of a steam special would have been able to pull a regular holiday train - thus a set of SNCF international coaches. the same coaches are of course useable as an international set behind a SBB or BLS electric locomotive. Otherwise, I will have to look at the formation of heritage trains in the 70s and 80s. Returning to the real world - Interlaken Ost has facilities for steam locomotives (in the metre-gauge area) so it is reasonable to expect that water and coal could be found for a standard gauge locomotive if it became necessary. No turntable though, so my model will have to work well in both directions.

 

Thank you for your offer of help with translations. I'm doing well so far with my dictionary, but I'll send you a PM if I get stuck.

 

This is my first DJH kit. It is certainly easier than scratchbuilding.

 

 

 

 

Returning to my search for information about the 231D, I was fortunate to find a book this weekend on World Steam Locomotives which has a 231D photograph to represent Andre Chapilon.

 

I also found a copy of 'Voies Ferrees' froim 1984 which has an article of the 231D, including a review of the DJH kit and several photographs of 231Ds - including the other side (most pictures seem to be of the same side as my pictures).

There are also pictures of both sides of the DJH model completed, it is painted in the green livery though.

 

That's the latest for now.

 

 

Dave

[DIW]

Just a little bit more progress, I finished the valve gear on the first side.

 

 

I'll take this opportunity to thank the readers who have posted comments and replies. In posting order;

 

Horsetan -

Yes it is a super site, something like 'Mainly Trains' for French modelling. When I know if I want anything in addition to the custom-made number plates, I'll sort out an order and report back on how well it goes.

 

Jwealleans -

I'll try some thread-lock on some of the tiny nuts and bolts I use to secure funicular cable rollers into their brackets, and see how that is. If it seems fine I'll try it on the valve gear - crosshead nut and bolt. If not, I'll think again..........

I bought a can of Satin black this weekend - Your comment on gloss helped tip the balance! Further photographic finds have come to light which confirm your memory of the white lining.

I have recently obtained a large number of SNCF society magazine back numbers. I have bookmarked both (!) photographs I found of a 231D. I'll need a bit of time to find out if there are the historical articles I need for the stock working (when I need a daily rail commute for such reading, I don't have one).

 

Pewky -

That is a fine model you linked to. It is in the green livery - I am making the model in the SNCF black livery. The angle of the photograph of the model is very useful for some of the top detail.

I am used to limited and expensive stock, my exhibition layout is S scale Swiss mountains. My current (slow) build is a HO scale layout located near Interlaken in Switzerland, set in late 70s early 80s. There are extensive carriage sidings at Interlaken Ost, which allowed for the stabling of a wide range of international stock. Accordingly if there were ever any SNCF workings from Brittany to Berne, it is possible that the train would have terminated at Interlaken. If we now move to My Little World, we will find that a 231D did get preserved after all. However in a vague attempt to maintain a sense of reasonableness, I would like to find out if a regular holiday train actually ran - thus a set of SNCF international coaches - so that I could make the occasion a steam special. The same coaches would of course be useable as a regular international set behind a SBB or BLS electric locomotive on the layout. Otherwise, I will have to look at the formation of heritage trains in the 70s and 80s to run a steam special. (Which leads off into other directions of steam specials in Europe in the modelled era). Returning to the real world - Interlaken Ost has facilities for steam locomotives in the metre-gauge part of the station so it is reasonable to expect that water and coal could be available for a standard gauge locomotive if it became necessary. No turntable though, so my model will have to work well in both directions.

 

Thank you for your offer of help with translations. I'm doing well so far with my dictionary, but I'll send you a PM if I get stuck.

 

This is my first DJH kit. It is certainly easier than scratchbuilding.

 

 

 

 

Returning to my search for information about the 231D, I was fortunate to find a book this weekend on World Steam Locomotives which has a 231D photograph to represent Andre Chapilon.

 

I also found a copy of 'Voies Ferrees' from 1984 which has an article about the 231D, including a review of the DJH kit and several photographs of 231Ds - including the other side (most pictures seem to be of the same side as my pictures).

There are also pictures of both sides of the DJH model completed, it is painted in the green livery though.

 

That's the latest for now.

 

 

Dave

[pewky]

Good morning,

 

 

For your location you will find a lot of compo specially on night train. Scroll in this thread you may find ideas:

 

http://www.lrpresse.fr/trains/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25715&start=1680

 

 

What is your stock so far?

[DIW]

***Pre-server change update........!!!!***

 

My copy of 'Swiss Express' has just arrived, (issue 103) with a photograph of French (Est) 241A65 at Interlaken Ost - so I can run a preserved 231D on my HO Swiss layout - well when I've built them I can.

 

Pewky, thanks for the additional information, I'll reply after the server change.

 

Dave

[DIW]

For your location you will find a lot of compo specially on night train. Scroll in this thread you may find ideas:

 

http://www.lrpresse....5715&start=1680

 

 

That is an impressive thread! Certainly one for reference.

 

 

What is your stock so far?

 

 

For international trains; SBB sleeper carriages of course, DB ICE Mk 1 set (test runs to Interlaken were in 1980), DB, DSG, DSB carriages, not enough SNCF and no FS or CSD yet.

 

EDIT - picked up a couple of CSD carriages at the Landford exhibition.

 

 

There probably won't be any progress on the loco build this weekend; I'm exhibiting here on Saturday and visiting here on Sunday.

 

Dave

[DIW]

I managed to complete the valvegear on the other side last weekend, and took a photo yesterday evening:

 

With the valvegear assembled and after an hour or so of fettling, it all seemed to run nice and smoothly. I tightened up the screw in the gear on the axle, and applied power from the controller I had handy (the old Hornby Dublo one I use for adjusting temperature on the 12V soldering iron) - all ran nicely. I'm not sure how it performs yet through the entire speed range, the old controller goes directly from off to medium at the lowest setting, and then through the range of speeds up to medium and a bit at the top setting! Clearly the controller was expecting a much larger current draw. I may dig out another controller at the weekend to see how the performance is at slower speeds.

 

Have cleaned up the parts for the leading bogie and the pony truck, hope to assemble them this coming weekend.

 

Next on the instructions (after assembly of the bogie and truck) is the cleaning up of the footplate and the boiler castings. Started on cleaning up the footplate last night.

Edited July 29, 2022 by DIW
Pictures re-uploaded

[DIW]

A few weeks have gone past, and only a little bit of progress.

 

I built the bogie and the pony truck. Here they are posed with the chassis:

 

 

 

I had the foresight to blacken the trucks just behind the wheels before soldering the axle covers in place - there isn't much room to get a brush in at a later date.

 

The boiler and footplate were cleaned up, and the cab etching folded up.The cab roof was soldered to the cab, and after some fettling the cab was soldered to the boiler. The cab and boiler assembly fits to the footplate with bolts, so I can separate them for painting later. Such a few words for so much effort! For the time being, here they are sat together, with the smokebox saddle soldered to the footplate:

 

 

Of course with the boiler and footplate together, and the chassis to hand they just have to be put together - if only to check the clearance for the motor:

 

 

 

I still need to drill a few more holes in the footplate - the sand pipes run from the top of the boiler through the footplate.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by DIW
Pictures re-uploaded

[jwealleans]

Glancing at that as I scrolled down, I was reminded very much of a Raven A2.

 

Have you seen

by the way? No idea if it's exactly the same locomotive, but a very absorbing 5 minutes. The original 9 minute film should show as a link to the right as well.

[Horsetan]

....Have you seen

by the way? No idea if it's exactly the same locomotive, but a very absorbing 5 minutes. ....

 

The buffer beam numbering shows the engine to be a 231 E.....

[DIW]

On 15/10/2010 at 09:52, jwealleans said:

Have you seen

by the way? No idea if it's exactly the same locomotive, but a very absorbing 5 minutes. The original 9 minute film should show as a link to the right as well.

 

 

On 15/10/2010 at 10:24, Horsetan said:

The buffer beam numbering shows the engine to be a 231 E.....

 

Thanks Jonathan, what a lovely film! I must find more time this week to look at it again. As Horsetan says, the loco has 231E on the buffer beam.....and I saw that on the cab side too. There are quite a few detailed differences between 231E and the 231D. In particular the sand pipes are quite distinctive on a 231D, while the loco in the film has a very different arrangement. The spectacle plate too is very diffferent between the two types. Another very interesting thing in the film is the lack of lining on the loco.

(Edited to correct tiredness-induced nonsense!)

 

As to progress - very little I'm afraid. Tempus fugit and all that.

 

I managed to make a securing bracket for the motor, to prevent it flapping up and down with change of direction. The bracket secures to one of the power tab screws at one end, and to the chassis cross member at the other. I had previously checked to make sure that the lower brush is the correct one to connect to the live chassis for the model to move in the same direction as everything else when power is applied. I will build the tender to be live from the other rail - there is an insulating bush supplied with the kit for the loco to tender bracket.

 

Oh, and I stuck on the balance weights for the driving wheels.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by DIW
Pictures re-uploaded

[DIW]

I have found a little bit of time over the past three weeks to put on some of the fittings - chimney, dome, sandboxes etc which give the loco some of its character. Also the front frames and buffer beam.

 

 

I'm considering starting the tender - primarily as a change from cleaning up the fiddly bits.

 

Incidently there is one of these kits on Ebay at the moment - it was 110 Euros this morning.

Edited July 29, 2022 by DIW
Pictures re-uploaded

[DIW]

Time for another progress (😆) report....

 

Some more of the fiddly bits have been added, in particular the handrail knobs. as indicated in the previous posting, I have made a start on the tender. I notice that until now all the pictures have been of the same side; this time the photos are of the other side.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by DIW
Pictures re-uploaded

[DIW]

It has been quite a few weeks since I have been able to make any progress on th SNCF pacific. Last weekend and this, I have completed the tender main assemblies and added a few more 'fiddly bits' to the loco.

 

This picture shows the tender (and the loco in the background) in its subassemblies:

 

 

Here is the tender dry-assembled for the photo:

 

 

Just a few more details to add to th eloco, then painting can start. There will be more details to add after the main painting session; it is a matter of determining which parts would obstruct the paint spray.

[RedgateModels]

Nice build, wish they did a 232 U1!

[DIW]

Nice build, wish they did a 232 U1!

 

Yes, I looked for 232U on the DJH site when I first saw your thread. They do a 232 tank, but of course that isn't the same.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[DIW]

A little bit more progress - the body, footplate, tender and chassis have been painted.

 

No pictures at the moment, however I am on the club demonstration stand here this weekend, and I'll bring along the 231D. Ask if you want to see it though because I won't have it out on general view, it's a bit too esoteric!

 

Dave

[DIW]

More progress to report - I bought a rolling road at last, and tried out the chassis with it.

 

 

Found a slight problem - one of the crankpins started to come unscrewed from the wheel, and of course it was one of the centre axle wheels. A couple of hours later and the pin was re-secured with thread lock. All ran very well after that.

 

Here are a couple of pictures showing the body and tender after painting.

 

 

 

The miscellaneous pipes and other fittings need to be added, before the final coat of paint.

 

I wonder how long that will take me?

 

Dave

[DIW]

I've started on the pipework! One problem I have found when looking at photos of the 231D series of locomotives is that the pipework is subtly different for each one. Whilst that means that I could possibly get away with a slight error, it also means that it is not necessarily true that any particular detail I find will be correct for 231D539.

 

I have never really liked doing pipework; mostly it has been on the roof for BR (SR) multiple units. At least on those the pipework is fairly straight (except for lavatory tank fillers) and usually two dimensional. With the 231D I need to work out which pipes need to go on before others. These are the first one so far:

 

 

 

This is the next pipe, bent to shape. It needs to be fitted over those running down the left side (viewed from the cab):

 

 

However in order to avoid having the possibility of brass showing when the final paint is sprayed on, I have painted the fitted pipes, and the next one where it crosses theose already fitted:

 

 

A recent re-scan at higher resolution of the original slides of 231D539 has revealed that two of the boiler bands have retained a little bit of their original brass colouring. So, before any further pipes are added I shall need to paint those two bands (very bright brass colour) so that when the final coat of black is applied, there will b e a bit of brass colouring showing through. That's the plan anyway.

 

So far, there has not been any definitive answer to the question of the number applied to the tender for 231D539, although there are still enquiries ongoing - my thanks go to those who have been helping on this subject in the thread in 'Special Interests - Overseas Modelling'. I am grateful for information via PM which has provided me with quite a few tender numbers to avoid; as such I can start to 'choose' a number. Does anyone know what locomotive received tender number 22C539? It seems that having a tender number the same as the locomotive is unusual, so to my mind that is a good one with which to start the choice list!

[DIW]

More pipework has been added. Ooooh, this is dull! I've got a Finecast T9 kit to build next, which has jumped the queue ahead of a DJH SBB Ae3/5. All held up by these pipes!

 

The two boiler bands whose brassy paint has not been completely darkened on the original have been painted on the model. They will be properly darkened down when the final spray of black paint goes on, so that they just about show through.

 

 

[DIW]

Here are another couple of pictures which I took nearly a week ago, only now have got a moment to post them.

 

More of the pipework has been added:

 

 

although since that picture I have almost completed the pipes - just need to take another picture!

 

I ordered some tools and hardware ahead of starting a Finecast T9, and added a flywheel for the 231D to the order:

 

 

I have sent an enquiry to ALP2M regarding etched plates for the 231D, and am awaiting a reply.

 

Now to start the T9 thread...