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Second bite: "The depot"

Posted by Mikkel , in Construction, The Depot 19 November 2009 · 2,130 views

Depot baseboards Snackbox
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Hmmm, now what can we build here?

I've decided to move ahead with the next installment in the series of micro-layouts based on the fictional Farthing station. Again, it's Edwardian GWR during the period 1904-1908. Here's a rundown of my thoughts so far.

Concept
The basic idea is to model the inside of a large Edwardian goods depot. Or rather: just a section of it, showing maybe 3-4 busy loading docks. I envision an overall roof structure extending over the entire layout, under which we'd be seeing vans and wagons entering and leaving the loading- and transshipment docks. The visual interest would include the kind of detail I like, such as a fleet of horse drawn vehicles in the trans-shipment dock, goods of all shapes and sizes, and Edwardian workers going about their business. To get an idea of what I'm thinking about, have a look at this photo: Paddington Goods Depot [scroll to first image].


Snackboxing
The scenic section of the layout will be housed in the Ikea "Snackbox" shown below, which has had one side removed. The outside measurements are 56 x 37 cms, which I believe is approx. 22 " x 14 5/8 ". The Snackboxes have previously been discussed on RMweb, and in one or two cases also applied. There is even a Yahoo group for Snackbox modelling, although it has gone rather quiet (edit: the "Snackbox" has now been discontinued from Ikea). Indeed it seems that most people who have embarked on Snackbox layouts have subsequently abandoned them, possibly because the space really is quite limited. I'd like to give it a try though, as I think it might just work for this kind of scheme


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Benchwork done!

Operation
One of the challenges will be how to create a reasonable degree of operational interest, since we are basically just talking about a set of parallel tracks with some loading docks in between. Here I'm thinking of bringing the fiddle yard into the picture; ie by adding a couple of points to the fiddle yard it could help generate some interesting moves in itself. We'll see. My knowledge of the workings of these larger depots is very limited at present, but as a start I hope to find some useful info in GWR Goods Services Part 2A, for which an order will be placed shortly. There is some interesting preliminary info on the workings of an LNWR goods depot here, which indicates some possibilities for shunting wagons from an arrival to a departure bay, etc.


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Aha, a chance to build some "foreign" goods stock!

Stock
One of the things I like about this idea is that it will most definitely not be loco-centric! In fact, I am not even sure locos were allowed to venture inside such a depot at all, due to the fire risk. Again, though, the fiddle yard would come into play, as the domain of 1-2 shunting locos. Wagons and vans would form the bulk of the stock (in fact, all of it). This will require some additional stock building apart from what I already have, but I enjoy this and since we're talking OO here it won't be all that time consuming. I'll also get a chance to experiment with the little known red livery that was used on GWR wagons at one stage.


Questions to investigate
Lot's of things to delve into, here's a few off my initial list - if anyone can help it would be very much appreciated!

1. Good prototypes of large-ish GWR goods depots that can provide inspiration?
2. Were locos at any time allowed into these large goods depots?
3. Was foreign goods stock admitted and handled similar to GWR stock in such depots?





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Buckjumper
Nov 20 2009 12:25
This is going to be interesting to watch - the subject matter is just my sort of thing.

1. Good prototypes of large-ish GWR goods depots that can provide inspiration?.....I hope to find some useful info in GWR Goods Services Part 2A, for which an order will be placed shortly.


Order it now! It will galvanise your thoughts and answer many of your questions. It's a superb book, and I keep meaning to get hold of Part 1.

Of course it'll put a halt on any modelling for a few evenings as you pore over it....

2. Were locos at any time allowed into these large goods depots?


I believe that in general most large depots of the period had hydraulic accumulator houses to power capstans and lifts to facilitate the movement of stock within the building. Outside there was often a mixture of power to move wagons; locos, horses, capstans and pinchbars were all utilised.

3 Was foreign goods stock admitted and handled similar to GWR stock in such depots?



Have another look at that Paddington link you posted. Front left - a lovely 7-plank Great Eastern wagon to Diagram 73 under tarpaulin number 13194...I'll expect to see that one replicated! :icon_wink: That truncated one on the right is an LNWR 4-plank (Diagram 9 perhaps?) - so the answer is a resounding yes.
Wow Buckjumper, I thought I had landed in the Forum section there for a minute! Not quite sure how you managed to quote the Blog entry but this is exactly the kind of thing we need in the Blogs Posted Image .

Many thanks also for spurring me on re GWR Goods Services books. I understand that the first volume has only a limited amount of photos but gives an excellent introduction, whereas the second one is rich on illustrations. I would like both but will go for Vol 2A for a start.

Movement of stock - hmmm, some interesting options there. The rules state that loco operation is a plus, though, and I wouldn't want it to become too much like a diorama. I'll need to give that some thought.

Thanks for pointing out the GER and LNWR wagons in that photo - don't know how I missed the GER one although I'm impressed you can identify the diagrams! Looking forward to having a go at some non-GWR stock, ahtough I can't promise the GER one as I have a bunch of kits at the back of the drawer I want to do first Posted Image .

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Buckjumper
Nov 20 2009 17:56

Wow Buckjumper, I thought I had landed in the Forum section there for a minute! Not quite sure how you managed to quote the Blog entry but this is exactly the kind of thing we need in the Blogs Posted Image



The little 'reply' button at the bottom of each entry or comment quotes the relevant passages. I then chopped it up and used the quote button (3rd from right) in the little row above the text field.

I understand that the first volume has only a limited amount of photos but gives an excellent introduction, whereas the second one is rich on illustrations. I would like both but will go for Vol 2A for a start.


Yes, that's what I did. There are some smashing photos in 2a - unsurprisingly it was the photos of Smithfield on the Widened Lines which attracted me to the book in the first place, but there are other gems in there too.

Movement of stock - hmmm, some interesting options there. The rules state that loco operation is a plus, though, and I wouldn't want it to become too much like a diorama. I'll need to give that some thought.


Well...........a condensing 633 or Metro wouldn't chuck sooty deposits all over the interior of the depot would it? :icon_wink:

Thanks for pointing out the GER and LNWR wagons in that photo - don't know how I missed the GER one although I'm impressed you can identify the diagrams! Looking forward to having a go at some non-GWR stock, ahtough I can't promise the GER one as I have a bunch of kits at the back of the drawer I want to do first Posted Image .


Am I allowed an embarrassing U-turn and change my mind over the GER wagon? The photo purports to be taken in July 1921 and as there was only one GER wagon with a bar extant at that time - the D.73, I assumed that it was a GER wagon under the tarpaulin - it's usually a good bet. However a much more clearly reproduced photo shows this is not the case at all, and it's actually GW wagon under there after all. Still, with the GER tarp there, it's likely there's a GER wagon close by out of shot.

That'll teach me to be a smarty pants. :icon_redface::icon_mrgreen:

1. Good prototypes of large-ish GWR goods depots that can provide inspiration?

Hockley (Birmingham Snow Hill) - one of the biggest - there was a big article in GWRJ Nos 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 very detailed with good photos and lots of details.

Opened 1857 with both broad and narrow gauge. In 1900 there were 2 large sheds one for "Inwards" and one for "Outwards" they had different track layouts.
Many thanks Kenton. I have one of the issues. Shouldn't be too hard to get hold of the others.

The little 'reply' button at the bottom of each entry or comment quotes the relevant passages.


Try as I might, I can't find a reply button for the entries. I must be blind or maybe it doesn't show on small screens... (this is a small laptop).

Well...........a condensing 633 or Metro wouldn't chuck sooty deposits all over the interior of the depot would it?


Ah, you mean like this one? That's not a bad idea at all - and I've always wanted to give it an earlier livery...

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Hmm no faster did I edit it to correct my error you responded ;) sorry for any confusion.
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Buckjumper
Nov 20 2009 21:19

Try as I might, I can't find a reply button for the entries. I must be blind or maybe it doesn't show on small screens... (this is a small laptop).


Lummie! I must have copied and pasted the first reply but looked at the 'reply' button as I was replying and got in a muddle...if you get my drift. I don't know what's wrong with me this evening, though I did spend the afternoon (with a suitable respirator) sitting in clouds of atomised cellulose and enamel paint. :wacko:

Ah, you mean like this one?


Oh yes, very much like that one. What a beauty!
Hi Mikkel

You asked:
"2. Were locos at any time allowed into these large goods depots?"

Well, Buckjumper said the same as I would, that most of the work was done by hydraulic capstan, and of course the ubiquitous railway horse.

However before work this morning I pulled my copies of Great Western Miscellany Volumes 1 & 2 to have a look through, as I was sure that there were a couple of photos of large goods sheds there. And indeed there are excellent photos from the early 20th century of the large shed at Birmingham Moor Street.

More particularly, in Volume 1 there is a lovely photo as plate 123 that shows the exterior, and the road nearest the platforms clearly shows smoke marks from locomotives above the entry to the goods shed.

HTH
Flymo
Hi Mikkel

Look forward to seeing this progress but can't help feeling a litle disappointed that you didn't complete your previous Edwardian 'diorama': Farthing Bay.

Jonte :mellow:

Hi Mikkel
More particularly, in Volume 1 there is a lovely photo as plate 123 that shows the exterior, and the road nearest the platforms clearly shows smoke marks from locomotives above the entry to the goods shed.

Thankyou Flymo, or should I say Sherlock Holmes Posted Image. I've begun reading through a series of articles in GWRJ on Birmingham Hockley goods shed, and will look out for tell tale signs like that, which I hadn't thought of. I wonder what period those photos you refer to are from?

I see that the author of the GWRJ articles actually states that locos were not allowed inside Hockley, but there may have been exceptions to that, and he is referring to his own experience which is the 30 and 40s as far as I can see. He describes how stock was shunted into the shed by locos, but that capstans would be used for taking them the last bit of the way if the trains weren't "long enough" to reach their intended location.

What an amazing place Hockley must have been!

Hi Mikkel

Look forward to seeing this progress but can't help feeling a litle disappointed that you didn't complete your previous Edwardian 'diorama': Farthing Bay.

Jonte Posted Image


Hi Jonte,

I will finish "The bay" before I start building the goods depot, in fact I'm going to do some work on it today. I know it will leave me a little less time for the 2010 Challenge, but there really isn't much work left on "The bay" (only some detail bits) and I wouldn't want to just leave it unfinished.

So what I'm doing here is just the research for the goods depot.

BTW, I'm not sure what would have been the correct term for a large goods depot in Edwardian times. I see that a photo from Hockley in a later period has "Goods Depot" painted on it, but I've also seen reference to "Goods Station" (Paddington) and some trackplans for Hockley simply say "Goods Shed" ....
Ecellent news Mikkel.

I just hope it doesn't delay the new project too long!!!

By the way, what happened to the term 'Marshalling Yard' and is that diferent to a goods yard?

Please forgive my ignorance folks.

Regards,

Jonte
Jonte, I've always considered marshalling yard as a term for the extensive sidings where stock is shunted and made into consists etc - whereas a goods yard is just the area at any station where goods are loaded and off-loaded.
I see.

Thanks,

Jonte

Welcome to Farthing!

Attached Image: farthing2.jpg

 

This blog chronicles the building of "The Farthing layouts", a series of small OO layouts that portray different sections of a GWR junction station in Edwardian days.

 

Intro and concept
How to eat an elephant
Design principles
State of play

 

Gallery (1900-1904)
Four o'clock blues, ca. 1902
What really happened in the Cuban...
The honourable slipper boy (Part 1)
The honourable slipper boy (Part 2)
The honourable slipper boy (Part 3)

 

Gallery (1904-08)
The trials of Mr Bull
A most implausible arrival
A parcel for Mr Ahern
Blue skies and horse traffic
The Remains of the Day
Motley crew

Edwardian daydreams

 

Gallery (1914)
All in a day's work, Part 1
All in a day's work, Part 2
All in a day's work, Part 3
All in a day's work, Part 4

 

Out of period
Undecided sky (1867)
The sleeping giant (1887)
Bunker first (1927)
Fitted fish and piles (1947)

 

Videos
Once Upon a Time in the West
Summer silliness
The unbearable lightness...
Across the years
The Sidelight Job
Painting coach panels

Traverser testing

 

Coaches
Low-tech pre-grouping stock

Short trains for short layouts
Short trains with a twist
Hand-me-down coaches
Low-tech coach restoration (1)
Low-tech coach restoration (2)
Low-tech coach restoration (3)
Low-tech coach restoration (4)
Low-tech coach restoration (5)

 

Wagons
Sprat & Winkle couplings
3 plank Open in GWR red
Outside Framed 8 Ton Van

In the red: GWR 1900s wagon liveries
In loving memory...
Scratchbuilt one-planker (1)
Scratchbuilt one-planker (2)
MSWJR 3-plank dropside
LSWR 10 ton sliding door van
SDJR Road Van
LSWR stone wagon
Fake news and wagon sheets

 

Locos
GWR 1854 Saddle Tank (1)
GWR 1854 Saddle Tank (2)
Shiny domes and safety valve covers

 

Track
C+L underlay and Carr's ballast
Experiments with C+L track
Comparing track
Messing about with track panels
Laying track on "The depot"

 

Vehicles
GWR horse-drawn trolley
GWR 5-ton horse-drawn vehicle
Parcels van and coal trolley

 

Goods
Fun with crates
Barrels, baskets, bales
Small crates and tea chests

 

Figures
Andrew Stadden 4mm figures
Backdated Monty's figures
Footplate crew
HO figures for an OO layout
Lesser known whitemetal figures

 

Building "The bay"
First bite: "The bay"
Simple structures for "The bay"
Platform trolleys and barrows
Signs, posters and adverts
Six lessons learnt

 

Building "The depot"
Second bite: "The depot"
Shunting Puzzle
Sketches of The depot
Soft body, hard shell
Kit-bashed roof structure
Dry Run
Dusting off the cobwebs
Playing with mirrors
Mezzanine floor
Progress on "The depot"
4mm slate roofing
The treachery of images

A roof for "The depot"

A tall bird from Paddington
Cranes for the depot
Shoulders of giants
Flight of the bumblebee

 

Building "The sidings"
Third bite: "The sidings"
Wagon propulsion
Progress on "The sidings"
Rising from slumber
The Biscuit Shed
A shed and a lock-up
Agricultural merchant's warehouse
Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall

 

The FSWDC
Railway modelling and Art
Moving Pictures
Season's greetings

 

Layout ideas
A flexible layout
Kicking back in Gloucester

 

Miscellaneous
GWR stables - an overview
Journey to Didcot
Detail hunting at Didcot
Here's looking at you
The mists of time (and all that)
My friend the operating chair
Ready-to-plonk freight
GWR Modelling website

 

More
RMweb Workbench
Flickr photostream

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