A3 Book Law

[pom-pom]

Some close-up photos for your perusal.

 

First impressions are that it's a very nice model but has been somewhat let down by quality control issues in the manufacturing process:

 

(1.) Mine looked like it had been hurriedly placed in its packaging and came with the reversing lever loose in the box and the front vacuum hose snapped. I have since corrected these problems.

 

(2.) The LNER tender lettering is clearly misplaced.

 

(3.) It has bucket seats which don't match the large cab cut-outs.

 

(4.) the boiler join seam is quite pronounced and curiously is not present in the first boiler segment adjacent to the smokebox.

 

(5.) the ash pan rocker lever is indeed on the wrong side but after removing the body it looks like it will transfer across easily. Strangely enough it is detailed on the inner side to show the bosses through which the lever would rotate... in other words it has been designed to be on the right-hand side but the factory have placed it on the left.

 

(6.) in order to fit the motor in there's a fairly prominent cut-away to the boiler forward of the rear splashers.

 

(7.) I've left the worse until last. The running plate along the body is badly distorted under the firebox (Bachmann A2s?) and at the front over the cylinders. The Rails of Sheffield photos show exactly the same problem in this area as mine. It has just been assembled very poorly and gives the impression that the loco was involved in a frontal shunting accident. The running plate is quite flimsy and is glued to the rest of the body with small plastic lugs protruding through the bottom.. attempted removal would almost certainly result in breakage. At first glance the area under the smokebox may be a non-starter but the front end may be fixed. by judicious, careful bending. The problem seems to lie in the combined attachment of the steam pipes, smokebox/boiler and the running plate. There are also black sandwich plates (nomenclature!) between the steam pipes and the running plate which are distorted and poorly attached.

 

 

This sounds a little scathing but I think that at £150 a throw we are entitled to higher expectations. The problems at first glance seem to be restricted entirely to the loco body itself plus the lettering on the tender. Otherwise everything else seems good.

 

 

 

[pom-pom]

Incidentally, the photos I've uploaded show 2599 after I have spent some time gently bending the front running plate down to almost the correct position but it is evident that I have further to go. I should probably have returned the model but curiosity got the better of me and when I saw that the Rails of Sheffield photograph displayed the exact same problems with the running plate I assumed they were all like that.

[pom-pom]

One further observation! The front footsteps as fixed (there was no detail pack in the box) would not allow the loco to negotiate any standard curves under 4th radius...

[toboldlygo]

Incidentally, the photos I've uploaded show 2599 after I have spent some time gently bending the front running plate down to almost the correct position but it is evident that I have further to go. I should probably have returned the model but curiosity got the better of me and when I saw that the Rails of Sheffield photograph displayed the exact same problems with the running plate I assumed they were all like that.

 

What's the manufacture code on the box?

[pom-pom]

What's the manufacture code on the box?

 

REF01-90937

R3132-19-078

 

These were both on a white sticker on the bottom of the box. Does that help?

[toboldlygo]

REF01-90937

R3132-19-078

 

These were both on a white sticker on the bottom of the box. Does that help?

 

Yes it does, means Refined's QC gremlins are still present.

[pom-pom]

Yes it does, means Refined's QC gremlins are still present.

 

Sorry, can you please elaborate on "Refined"? But you're right, QC is certainly amiss.. which is a crime on such an otherwise excellent model. Runs very well incidentally.

[micklner]

Some close-up photos for your perusal.

 

First impressions are that it's a very nice model but has been somewhat let down by quality control issues in the manufacturing process:

 

(1.) Mine looked like it had been hurriedly placed in its packaging and came with the reversing lever loose in the box and the front vacuum hose snapped. I have since corrected these problems.

 

(2.) The LNER tender lettering is clearly misplaced.

 

(3.) It has bucket seats which don't match the large cab cut-outs.

 

(4.) the boiler join seam is quite pronounced and curiously is not present in the first boiler segment adjacent to the smokebox.

 

(5.) the ash pan rocker lever is indeed on the wrong side but after removing the body it looks like it will transfer across easily. Strangely enough it is detailed on the inner side to show the bosses through which the lever would rotate... in other words it has been designed to be on the right-hand side but the factory have placed it on the left.

 

(6.) in order to fit the motor in there's a fairly prominent cut-away to the boiler forward of the rear splashers.

 

(7.) I've left the worse until last. The running plate along the body is badly distorted under the firebox (Bachmann A2s?) and at the front over the cylinders. The Rails of Sheffield photos show exactly the same problem in this area as mine. It has just been assembled very poorly and gives the impression that the loco was involved in a frontal shunting accident. The running plate is quite flimsy and is glued to the rest of the body with small plastic lugs protruding through the bottom.. attempted removal would almost certainly result in breakage. At first glance the area under the smokebox may be a non-starter but the front end may be fixed. by judicious, careful bending. The problem seems to lie in the combined attachment of the steam pipes, smokebox/boiler and the running plate. There are also black sandwich plates (nomenclature!) between the steam pipes and the running plate which are distorted and poorly attached.

 

 

This sounds a little scathing but I think that at £150 a throw we are entitled to higher expectations. The problems at first glance seem to be restricted entirely to the loco body itself plus the lettering on the tender. Otherwise everything else seems good.

Re points 4 & 6 All of the A1's so far made have used  the same moulding patterns.

 

Re Footplate not good enough should go back IMHO

 

On seeing the photos (thanks) the following has been noted

 

Red Lining on Footplate,  White edge lining on Cab, Mudholes and Tender are much wider than the previous issues of LNER A1's 

 

Missing Red lining on Cylinders.

 

Black washout plugs are , they wrong should be Green

 

The Bufferbeam is a mess there should be a Black line around all of the the outer edge of the White lining. It doesn't looked attached to the Footplate correctly either.

 

   Sadly the overall impression is,  I won't be buying one , wrong version of the A3 for me and I suspect many others, only useable for the period 1930 to 1935 due the Cab cutouts. A A3 with the small cutout Cab version would be right for the days of the Coronation, Silver Jubilee and Mallard World Speed record ,they would also be useable renumbered for post war Pacifics as well. Very poor decision by Hornby marketing.

 

Poorly made cosmetically and not worth anywhere near the asking price. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by micklner

[toboldlygo]

Sorry, can you please elaborate on "Refined"? But you're right, QC is certainly amiss.. which is a crime on such an otherwise excellent model. Runs very well incidentally.

 

Refined is one of the Factories that Hornby use now. That being said Sanda Kan's last Hornby A3 had QC issues as well!

[pom-pom]

Here's a few more photos, on the rails and after a little more gentle bending of forward running plates.. arrgh. The issues highlighted do however diminish at speed!

 

Note the front view illustrating the footstep clearance on 4th radius standard track (I know, I know.. I must build a proper layout). These footsteps were glued on at the factory. I doubt the loco would make it round a 3rd radius curve.

 

Nick

[micklner]

On cabside lettering and A3s

 

The RCTS green guide has photos that show that Doncaster had two different sizes of number for A3 cabsides, sometimes on the same engine- 2750 Papyrus is an example- the 50 being slightly larger than the 27 at the time that it set its world speed record.   2751 was similar, as was 2749 amongst others. 

 

The photos also show slightly different shading, again between cabside numbers on the same engine.  This could have been the result of damage to one or more digits resulting in partial revarnishing of the cabside, or there could be another reason.  A classic example is shown in the Green Guide- Grand Parade at Doncaster after its accident.  The differences here are not due to the accident damage as other photos of Grand Parade (I) show the difference in shading- indeed it is a good way of telling a picture of the First Grand Parade from a picture of the replacement loco, as the replacement engine had all the numbers on the cabside the same.

 

I suspect that the LNER being very strapped for cash didn't go in for full repaints and relettering in the early to mid thirties if a cheaper alternative was available.

 

Now, did Book Law suffer from odd-sized or odd-coloured cabside numbers at any time?

 

Les

If you look at the pictures the 5 is simply too high and not inline with the other numbers.

[pom-pom]

Refined is one of the Factories that Hornby use now. That being said Sanda Kan's last Hornby A3 had QC issues as well!

 

Thanks. Somewhat ironic that the factory has such a name! Possibly the workers are given to think these models are mere toys and haven't been aware of our refined tastes and critical eyes.

[pom-pom]

Re points 4 & 6 All of the A1's so far made have used  the same moulding patterns.

 

Re Footplate not good enough should go back IMHO

 

On seeing the photos (thanks) the following has been noted

 

Red Lining on Footplate,  White edge lining on Cab, Mudholes and Tender are much wider than the previous issues of LNER A1's 

 

Missing Red lining on Cylinders.

 

Black washout plugs are , they wrong should be Green

 

   Sadly the overall impression is,  I won't be buying one , wrong version of the A3 for me and I suspect many others, only useable for the period 1930 to 1935 due the Cab cutouts. A A3 with the small cutout Cab version would be right for the days of the Coronation, Silver Jubilee and Mallard World Speed record ,they would also be useable renumbered for post war Pacifics as well. Very poor decision by Hornby marketing.

 

Poorly made cosmetically and not worth anywhere near the asking price. 

 

I think the red lining on the footplate exacerbates the way it is distorted at the cab and over the cylinders. It's interesting what you say about missing red lining on the latter. What is your opinion of the 'O' gauge A1/A3s available from http://loveless.co.uk/class_a1_a3/index.html as these also have this lining missing? Was it only applied in specific periods perhaps?

 

I agree with you re., the footplate, it's a mess although I have corrected it somewhat. But having to dislocate, re-glue and also glue bits on that were broken is a disgrace. I knew it was wrong before I had it out of the box but like many modellers the temptation to fiddle was irresistible.

 

Price: it is available for an appreciable amount less than Hornby's retail price elsewhere but again I have to agree... steep considering the quality control problems.

 

Plus points: it's a lovely runner and has a proper 5-pole motor unlike that pitiful whiny thing they put in the P2.

 

Hornby... get your act together, you're SO near yet so far..!!

[Ian Hargrave]

I think the red lining on the footplate exacerbates the way it is distorted at the cab and over the cylinders. It's interesting what you say about missing red lining on the latter. What is your opinion of the 'O' gauge A1/A3s available from http://loveless.co.uk/class_a1_a3/index.html as these also have this lining missing? Was it only applied in specific periods perhaps?

 

I agree with you re., the footplate, it's a mess although I have corrected it somewhat. But having to dislocate, re-glue and also glue bits on that were broken is a disgrace. I knew it was wrong before I had it out of the box but like many modellers the temptation to fiddle was irresistible.

 

Price: it is available for an appreciable amount less than Hornby's retail price elsewhere but again I have to agree... steep considering the quality control problems.

 

Plus points: it's a lovely runner and has a proper 5-pole motor unlike that pitiful whiny thing they put in the P2.

 

Hornby... get your act together, you're SO near yet so far..!!

I seem to have heard this somewhere,sometime before.Believe me things are a good deal better now than they were a while ago.In incremental terms a giant leap forward.

[Bernard Lamb]

I seem to have heard this somewhere,sometime before.Believe me things are a good deal better now than they were a while ago.In incremental terms a giant leap forward.

What do you base that on?

It looks to be a giant leap backwards from the original China made A3 models in just about all respects.

I have several and mixed and matched the parts to get mid 1950s models of particular machines.

All were excellent as far as assembly went.

Just noticed the mangled left hand front lamp iron.

A shame as the J15 was indeed  a  giant leap forward.

Bottom of the class for Hornby in 2015 on the strength of this show.

Is it worth buying and trying to rectify?

Looking at the cab numbers I don't think so, unless as a basis for a new identity. But then it might be better to start with an older BR model and work backwards.

Bernard

[Ian Hargrave]

What do you base that on?

It looks to be a giant leap backwards from the original China made A3 models in just about all respects.

I have several and mixed and matched the parts to get mid 1950s models of particular machines.

All were excellent as far as assembly went.

Just noticed the mangled left hand front lamp iron.

A shame as the J15 was indeed a giant leap forward.

Bottom of the class for Hornby in 2015 on the strength of this show.

Is it worth buying and trying to rectify?

Looking at the cab numbers I don't think so, unless as a basis for a new identity. But then it might be better to start with an older BR model and work backwards.

Bernard

Cast your mind back a couple of years and the disaster of short supplies ....remember the 2-BIL ? Remember "Design Clever " ? The bits that fell off Steam's Lode Star ? You have to admit supplies are on stream and in MY experience quality control has improved.The new SR. 700 is a testament to that.I am talking in general terms not just the A3 which seems not to be perfect but I'll live with it because it's not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination.It is in fact a very attractive model .Compare it with Bachmann's Modified Hall....now that is genuine calamity.....and perhaps you might take my point. Edited July 6, 2015 by Ian Hargrave

[pom-pom]

What do you base that on?

It looks to be a giant leap backwards from the original China made A3 models in just about all respects.

I have several and mixed and matched the parts to get mid 1950s models of particular machines.

All were excellent as far as assembly went.

Just noticed the mangled left hand front lamp iron.

A shame as the J15 was indeed  a  giant leap forward.

Bottom of the class for Hornby in 2015 on the strength of this show.

Is it worth buying and trying to rectify?

Looking at the cab numbers I don't think so, unless as a basis for a new identity. But then it might be better to start with an older BR model and work backwards.

Bernard

 

Err... the mangled front lamp iron... do you mean the bent one? Can't blame Hornby for that as I did it trying to gently coerce the front running plate/footplate back into the correct alignment! It has now been corrected.

 

In fact now... four hours later I have almost completely straightened the front end out, moved the ash pan lever to the correct side, fixed the snapped vacuum pipe, completely dismantled the tender in order to get the third wheel to rotate (I didn't mention that error as I hadn't discovered it yet) and repainted the washout plugs to green... all things that Hornby should have got right the first time. Still debating cab seats/cab-cutouts and lettering/numbering.

 

I don't know about the original Chinese A3s but I bought one of Hornby's older A4s (Mallard) which was one of the first Chinese models - compared with the mess that is Great Snipe it is a joy! So it seems things are sliding downhill alas...

[micklner]

Ian I can see your point .

 

 

But at £155 r.r.p its simply not good enough  and should be withdrawn and sorted out. Unless people make a stand against such faults it will only get worse or even worse than before again. 

 

 

Hornby still need to get their act together, some of the latest issues

 

K1 bent footplate

 

700 poor smokebox finish (simple  filing of the casting would have been a great improvement) and Boiler handrail posititon

 

J15 Boiler handrail again

 

Mainly minor faults agreed , but that doesn't excuse Hornby, faults like that should not been allowed on premium price models.

 

As to the Hall beyond belief.

Edited July 6, 2015 by micklner

[micklner]

I think the red lining on the footplate exacerbates the way it is distorted at the cab and over the cylinders. It's interesting what you say about missing red lining on the latter. What is your opinion of the 'O' gauge A1/A3s available from http://loveless.co.uk/class_a1_a3/index.html as these also have this lining missing? Was it only applied in specific periods perhaps?

 

I agree with you re., the footplate, it's a mess although I have corrected it somewhat. But having to dislocate, re-glue and also glue bits on that were broken is a disgrace. I knew it was wrong before I had it out of the box but like many modellers the temptation to fiddle was irresistible.

 

Price: it is available for an appreciable amount less than Hornby's retail price elsewhere but again I have to agree... steep considering the quality control problems.

 

Plus points: it's a lovely runner and has a proper 5-pole motor unlike that pitiful whiny thing they put in the P2.

 

Hornby... get your act together, you're SO near yet so far..!!

As to Red cylinder lining I believe from 1928 on Doncaster maintained Locos , Darlington used Green lined square white panels . The only clear colour photos I have are from 1937 onwards on V2's and a A3's.

 

Hornby versions so far Great Northern pre 1928 not lined, pot 1928 versions Flying Fox, Gladiateur and NRM Flying Scotsman all have Red lined Cylinders

Edited July 6, 2015 by micklner

[toboldlygo]

Ian I can see your point .

 

 

But at £155 r.r.p its simply not good enough  and should be withdrawn and sorted out. Unless people make a stand against such faults it will only get worse or even worse than before again. 

 

 

Hornby still need to get their act together, some of the latest issues

 

K1 bent footplate

 

700 poor smokebox finish (simple  filing of the casting would have been a great improvement) and Boiler handrail posititon

 

J15 Boiler handrail again

 

Mainly minor faults agreed , but that doesn't excuse Hornby, faults like that should not been allowed on premium price models.

 

As to the Hall beyond belief.

 

I don't where you've got £155 rrp from, Book Law's £152.99 on Hornby's own website!!

 

To be honest (and it has been said many at time on here) anyone who has a problem with a new loco (regardless of the manufacturer) should return it and also contact the manufacturer to inform them of the QC issues - how else will they get to know about the problem (and hopefully rectify them).

[micklner]

I won't lose any sleep over £2.01 !!

I would be very surprised if Hornby don't read forums , Book Law has been mentioned here, LNER Forum and MRE Express without any other coverage I ma not aware of . 

As I said earlier send it back.

[toboldlygo]

I won't lose any sleep over £2.01 !!

I would be very surprised if Hornby don't read forums , Book Law has been mentioned here, LNER Forum and MRE Express without any other coverage I ma not aware of . 

As I said earlier send it back.

 

Lol - Minoru (the next A3 for release) is £155 rrp perhaps that's the answer.

 

Of course they read the forums, why else would the T9,  the GWR Heavy Tanks and the Star been altered.

[Bernard Lamb]

Any one who made a comment about the Locomotion C1 being expensive care to comment?

This latest episode from Hornby does make that model look like  a real bargain.

It is all well and good for folks to say send it back. That will possibly get a model with less assembly faults but it will not do a thing about correcting the basic errors. Not a disaster I will admit, but surely an own goal in PR terms.

It certainly makes me minded not to pre order any thing from Hornby in the short term, particularly so in view of he differences between the pre and actual production models.

The hand rail stanchions on the J15 I can accept as I appreciate the tooling difficulties involved. The bottom line here is that the points  under review in this case have been dealt with correctly on previous models.

I can only see that as a return to the bad old days.

Bernard

[toboldlygo]

Any one who made a comment about the Locomotion C1 being expensive care to comment?

This latest episode from Hornby does make that model look like  a real bargain.

It is all well and good for folks to say send it back. That will possibly get a model with less assembly faults but it will not do a thing about correcting the basic errors. Not a disaster I will admit, but surely an own goal in PR terms.

It certainly makes me minded not to pre order any thing from Hornby in the short term, particularly so in view of he differences between the pre and actual production models.

The hand rail stanchions on the J15 I can accept as I appreciate the tooling difficulties involved. The bottom line here is that the points  under review in this case have been dealt with correctly on previous models.

I can only see that as a return to the bad old days.

Bernard

 

"We're doomed" to steal a quote from Dad's Army

[brushman47544]

I can only see that as a return to the bad old days.

Bernard

Or perhaps a Hornby rep. in China who doesn't understand the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between the tooling options and how important to us modellers that they are correct?