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Simple P4 turnout construction (works for EM and 00 gauges as well)





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#26 PhilipT

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 15:59

The other option is to buy the 3.3mm strip (Timbertracks or C&L/Exactoscale) and then cut to the required length with a tool such as the NWSL Chopper. My main reason for doing this is that I find it much easier to stain the longer lengths rather than fiddle about trying to fish individual sleepers out of the stain.





#27 Flymo748

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 17:18

Paul

 

Thank you very much for the information and especially the link to the Forum. My comment abut sleeper length was aimed more at the fact that these timbers were produced for all gauges and I was surprised that there were no 32 mm timbers for those who model in 00 (8'6" length) and 34 mm for both EM (8'6" length) and 00 (9' length). Still it is not too hard for most to cut a few timbers to length

 

As I am migrating to EM gauge I must join one of the society's, and find a new local club. However my work commitments (working evenings) for the next 18 months may reduce my options.

 

Hi John,

 

Well, you've seen the Scalefour Society's Forum, so you'll know what sort of chat you'll find over there.  We very much believe in "promoting finescale 4mm modelling", as anyone who has ever been given a carrier bag at one of our shows can confirm.

 

I don't know where in the country you are, but we have a clickable map of Area Groups at http://www.scalefour.org/areagroups/

 

In my local group (CHEAG) we have at least two EM modellers, as well as a member with a very extensive OO layout, so I'm sure that you will receive a kind welcome, and with trackbuilding skills like that maybe show us a trick or two.

 

Cheers

Paul


Paul

 

Thank you very much for the information and especially the link to the Forum. My comment abut sleeper length was aimed more at the fact that these timbers were produced for all gauges and I was surprised that there were no 32 mm timbers for those who model in 00 (8'6" length) and 34 mm for both EM (8'6" length) and 00 (9' length). Still it is not too hard for most to cut a few timbers to length

 

As I am migrating to EM gauge I must join one of the society's, and find a new local club. However my work commitments (working evenings) for the next 18 months may reduce my options.

 

Hi John,

 

Well, you've seen the Scalefour Society's Forum, so you'll know what sort of chat you'll find over there.  We very much believe in "promoting finescale 4mm modelling", as anyone who has ever been given a carrier bag at one of our shows can confirm.

 

I don't know where in the country you are, but we have a clickable map of Area Groups at http://www.scalefour.org/areagroups/

 

In my local group (CHEAG) we have at least two EM modellers, as well as a member with a very extensive OO layout, so I'm sure that you will receive a kind welcome, and with trackbuilding skills like that maybe show us a trick or two.

 

Cheers

Paul



#28 hayfield

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:38

Paul

 

Thanks, but living near Chelmsford Colchester is a bit too far away. I have two lively clubs near me but my work commitments at the moment exclude one of them

 

Having said that joining one of the societies P4 or EM would be beneficial as far as their stores and information available would be of use

 

Thanks again



#29 Kelly

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:45

Paul

Thanks, but living near Chelmsford Colchester is a bit too far away. I have two lively clubs near me but my work commitments at the moment exclude one of them

Having said that joining one of the societies P4 or EM would be beneficial as far as their stores and information available would be of use

Thanks again


If you are looking at joining the scalefour society it is best done at shows as you get a load of past issues of the journal.

Really depends on what you want out of the society. The scalefour society has a much better Internet presence than the emgs, but the emgs has useful items in their stores (as does the s4 society).

#30 hayfield

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 07:36

Kelly

 

Thanks for that, I will be at Scaleforum in September and no doubt both Societies will be there. I get the idea from your reply that the EMGS has a larger membership stores department, or am I misinterpreting your reply ?



#31 Grovenor

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 08:08

If you are looking at joining the scalefour society it is best done at shows as you get a load of past issues of the journal.

Once you have joined you have access to ALL back issues on the website anyway, and you can join up on line without any need to visit the post office.

Regards



#32 Flymo748

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 17:41

Paul

 

Thanks, but living near Chelmsford Colchester is a bit too far away. I have two lively clubs near me but my work commitments at the moment exclude one of them

 

Having said that joining one of the societies P4 or EM would be beneficial as far as their stores and information available would be of use

 

Thanks again

 

Ah, so not so far away from me then.  I'm in Sawbridgeworth...

 

I make it across to Colchester to the Area Group there a couple of times a year, as it's an hour from here.

 

My local Area Group meets at Newport, Essex, which is just over 30 minutes away.  I manage to make that about once a quarter.  For both of them, it's the dreaded work that makes it difficult - the next meeting at Colchester is this Thursday, but I'm away on business in Paris so will miss it.

 

In terms of the Stores, I'm a member of both EMGS and Scalefour Society, so I have access to both.

 

Both societies stock the essentials: gauges, jigs, rail, components for Brook Smith track, a similar range of coach and wagon wheels. 

 

The EMGS list contains a *lot* more items.  For example, almost the entire range of Alan Gibson products is listed and available through the EMGS, which must give people a convenience in ordering.

 

The Scalefour approach is twofold: (1) to not stock items that would compete with suppliers who have to make a business out of supplying us modellers, so we carry very little Alan Gibson by comparison; (2) to provide a "shopfront" for our small member/producers so you will find things like the Craig Welch and Morgan Designs wagon chassis.  But fundamentally there is a much smaller range focused on the fundamentals of finescale modelling.

 

HTH
Paul Willis

Scalefour Society Deputy Chairman



#33 hayfield

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 18:42

Paul

 

Thanks for the heads up and I am more than happy for any links to be added which would assist the would be track builder, especially as its about P4 gauge



#34 hayfield

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 15:24

If you are going to build a few turnouts then these simple Vee filing jigs are a godsend. Bought mine from Scaleforum last year and they certainly speed up the process, if you but ready made Vees these pay for themselves very quickly

 

69.JPG

 

This one have 4 angles 1: 5/6/7&8. I do not know if larger ones are available ?

 

There is also one for switch blades, which is also very useful. Will post a photo  of one soon



#35 PhilipT

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 14:17

EMGS only do the one which you show.

 

I understand that the switchblade one is no longer available although "TRACK - how it works and how to model it" published by the 2mm scale association shows how to make one. The design can be adapted for 4mm scale (I have one) and it works very well.


Edited by PhilipT, 29 July 2016 - 14:21 .


#36 hayfield

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 15:35

Philip

 

Thanks for the information, looks like I got mine just in time



#37 Flymo748

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 18:08

EMGS only do the one which you show.

 

I understand that the switchblade one is no longer available although "TRACK - how it works and how to model it" published by the 2mm scale association shows how to make one. The design can be adapted for 4mm scale (I have one) and it works very well.

 

In the Scalefour Stores, both the vee-filing jig and the blade filing jig are currently in stock.

 

They are available to members to purchase online, but if you are not a member then the Society Stores will be at both Scalefour Southwest in Wells at the end of August, and at Scaleforum in Aylesbury at the end of September.  At both shows (and at Scalefour North) then we welcome purchases by non-members.

 

And yes, "Track" by the 2mm Association is a truly excellent read, full of tips and ideas for us modelling in all scales.

HTH,

Paul Willis

Scalefour Society Deputy Chairman



#38 hayfield

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 16:34

A quick couple of photos of the Scalefour switch filing jigs, there are groves milled into the block of hardened steel for A, B, C, & D switches both left and right hands for each size

 

78.JPG

 

You clamp the rail in the jig over the foot of the rail you wish to keep, you can now file the head into the rail web. This makes the inside part of the switch rail. The black mark (under the B) on the rail is where the flareing ends

 

79.JPG

 

You turn the rail over but you do not protect the foot as you need to file the rear of the rail flush (this is the part that touches the stock rail, so you hold the rail in the centre of the jig

 

A simple job which after a bit of practice makes switch rails with ease

 

When you look at the price of ready made switch rails, these jigs pay for themselves quickly. I guess you could get most of your money back if you sold them on after building your track on a well known auction site 


Edited by hayfield, 30 July 2016 - 16:38 .


#39 Junctionmad

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 13:54

absolutely brilliant John 

 

we are indebted to people like you that take time to document and explain your build process 

 

Question 

 

I presume there is no reason why the copper clad  shim built crossing method couldnt be used in the full plastic chair plastic sleeper method you describe , this would allow cut chairs to be used etc  

 

dave



#40 hayfield

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 14:30

Dave

 

No problem at all, but that just makes the build slightly more complicated, I have not made a P4 turnout without a ready built common crossing yet, but I cannot foresee any reason other than a slight trimming of the chairs. Plastic to plastic is a permanent bond, where as plastic to ply the bond can be broken

 

My next experiment is to use an Exactoscale turnout pre-formed base as these are now available, only in P4 but with slight modification will work in EM gauge

 

Do explore the special chairs, certainly the switch and common crossing chairs do take the turnouts to another level, as do the bridge chairs. The 0.8 mm check rail chairs are out of stock awaiting re-supply



#41 Anglian

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 14:51

A brilliant thread and one that I've really enjoyed reading. Thank you.


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#42 Junctionmad

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 12:34

John , one of the issues I have is maintaining the gauge through the switchblade tips , or more correctly along the planeing angle. I typically position the straight stock rail after fitting the common crossing , then I gauge the opposing switch rail , from the stock rail , when I come to fit the curved stock rail , I find it difficult to gauge that , if I follow the template , I get small errors where the gauge tightens or widens , perhaps my build sequence is wrong , maybe I should fit the curved switch rail against the straight stock rail first

Perhaps youve covered fitting switch rails elsewhere ?, maybe a form of block gauge would be useful here as I could gauge the position of the curved rail from the straight switch rail

Dave

Edited by Junctionmad, 27 August 2016 - 12:37 .


#43 martin_wynne

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 12:49

John , one of the issues I have is maintaining the gauge through the switchblade tips , or more correctly along the planing angle. I typically position the straight stock rail after fitting the common crossing , then I gauge the opposing switch rail , from the stock rail , when I come to fit the curved stock rail , I find it difficult to gauge that , if I follow the template , I get small errors where the gauge tightens or widens , perhaps my build sequence is wrong , maybe I should fit the curved switch rail against the straight stock rail first.

 

Hi Dave,

 

It's better to fit both stock rails first, maybe before even making the switch blades. Adjust the set in the curved stock rail until you get the correct stock gauge measurement. More about all that here:

 

 http://85a.co.uk/for...=491&forum_id=1

 

Having both stock rails in place makes it much easier to fix the switch blades to gauge (and file them in the first place -- you can keep clipping them against the stock rail until you get the required fit).

 

regards,

 

Martin.



#44 martin_wynne

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 13:05

p.s. Dave. Another point to remember is that switch blades need a slight set (bend) at the end of the planing, so that the filed running face lines up with the plain rail beyond. Do this before curving the curved switch rail.

 

Here's a quick sketch:

 

bend_in_switch_rails.png

 

Martin.


Edited by martin_wynne, 27 August 2016 - 13:31 .


#45 hayfield

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 15:12

Dave as I use the Exactoscale additional switch rail parts I fit the toe end of the curved stock rail last. The block rail gauge is ideal for fitting the curved stock rail to the stock gauge

 

My order of the build in fitting the rails

 

1 Common crossing

2 Straight stock rail

3 Curved stock rail from the heal to the rail join (appx half the length)

4 Straight switch rail

5 Curved stock rail

6 Finish toe of curved stock rail


Edited by hayfield, 27 August 2016 - 16:28 .


#46 Junctionmad

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 19:13

Thanks John and Martin , I'm on to my next turnout which I'll document so if I have issues I can post the sequence and build method
Dave

#47 hayfield

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 07:55

Dave

 

Post the build on my workbench thread as it may get read by others using a different gauge



#48 hayfield

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 08:03

Dave as I use the Exactoscale additional switch rail parts I fit the toe end of the curved stock rail last. The block rail gauge is ideal for fitting the curved stock rail to the stock gauge

 

My order of the build in fitting the rails

 

1 Common crossing

2 Straight stock rail

3 Curved stock rail from the heal to the rail join (appx half the length)

4 Straight switch rail

5 Curved stock rail

6 Finish toe of curved stock rail

 

 

I don't know if I made it clear enough this order of build is for using the additional Exactoscale special chairs functional in 00 & EM gauges. in P4 gauge the check rail chairs are used functionally and are slid on to the stock rail prior to fitting, the stock rail initially positioned using check rail gauges, check rails are fitted at the end of the process (though equally could be fitted after the common crossing) on 00 & EM gauge build



#49 Junctionmad

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 12:50

Dave

Post the build on my workbench thread as it may get read by others using a different gauge


Will do. It's scheduled for next month
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#50 hayfield

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 12:03

114.JPG

 

This is an Exactoscale track base from their P4track co kits range which are now available from C&L as part of the Exactoscale parts range

 

114.JPG

 

There are locating pips on the timbers to aid construction, looks to be a very promising item for the track builder in P4 gauge and has possibilities for EM gauge modellers with a little bit of modification

 

Will do a test build in a few weeks using a pre-made vee rather than a pre-built common crossing, this should make the build even easier

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