Double Minories

[Foulounoux]

It looks like the track plan is a much earlier track layout than the one shown in google maps. There should be several three way points in the track plan on the tunnel exits which would knock another foot or two off the length of the plan.

It's pretty accurate prior to platform 0 but you are correct I couldn't get rtr 3 ways to fit so had to use some artistic licence

 

Colin

Edited August 6, 2016 by Foulounoux

[Titan]

It's pretty accurate prior to platform 0 but you are correct I couldn't get rtr 3 ways to fit so had to use some artistic licence

 

Colin

 

I had a play with anyrail and could get almost all of the three ways in without problem, it is a work in progress and I have not adjusted for the correct platform widths, but I think it looks very promising...

[Pacific231G]

I've just gone back to the original 1957 Minories article and Cyril Freezer did mention the idea of hidden sidings OR a reversing loop.

"It would be possible to use tender locos..provided some means of handling them "off stage" were provided either in the hidden sidings or by means of a reversing loop... Having arrived at the head of the express the tender loco is trapped until the shunter takes the train away, in imagination to the carriage sidings farther down the line. The tender loco then follows light engine, in imagination to the depot for coal, water, cleaning fires and turning, rejoining its train after the shunter has brought it back. In practice this probably means that they have both followed each other round the reverse loop!" Clearly in the 1950s modellers weren't expected to have express locos to spare.

 

It's interesting that the original terminus to fiddle yard layout, Frank Applegate and Bill Banwell's Maybank an O gauge layout first exhibited in 1932, used a motorised four road traverser hidden under a high level MPD but at its last exhibtion outing, the MRC Easter Exhibition in 1939, the write up says that the layout "has been improved, for exhibtion purposes, by the provision of a single loop at one end which speeds up the traffic operation"  I assume this was beyond the traverser but can't be sure of that. Unfortunately this iconic layout, that I know inspired Cyril Freezer, was damaged beyond repair in the blitz. 

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Padishar Creel]

Just wondered if anyone had ever planned, or built, or seen, a "double Minories" trackplan where you have a four track approach into the station going into multiple platforms.

 

I have some ideas but don't want to reinvent the wheel if one already exists for inspiration, although my sketches so far do lose the compactness of the Minories approach.

 

The nearest prototype I've come up with so far is Fenchurch Street itself which is basically five scissors crossovers.

 

Hallo,

just seen this thread. October 1974 Railway Modeller has a plan Euston Minor with 7 platforms. It is actually a two track main, loco line to "Camden" and a track which dives under the main, however tweak the throat would allow all four lines to access all platforms. If you do not have a copy of the plan let me know and if you wish I could scan the side and send it to you via message as I'm sure reproduction here would infringe copyright

 

es grüßt

pc

[AngusDe]

...... If you do not have a copy of the plan let me know and if you wish I could scan the side and send it to you via message as I'm sure reproduction here would infringe copyright

 

es grüßt

pc

 

Hi there, historically, one of my favourite CJF plans. I would't mind a copy if you do scan it, I've always fancied trying to recreate it in AnyRail.

 

Angus

[Budgie]

If you do not have a copy of the plan let me know and if you wish I could scan the side and send it to you via message as I'm sure reproduction here would infringe copyright

I wouldn't mind a copy.

[cromptonnut]

Hallo,

just seen this thread. October 1974 Railway Modeller has a plan Euston Minor with 7 platforms. It is actually a two track main, loco line to "Camden" and a track which dives under the main, however tweak the throat would allow all four lines to access all platforms. If you do not have a copy of the plan let me know and if you wish I could scan the side and send it to you via message as I'm sure reproduction here would infringe copyright

 

es grüßt

pc

Happy to get a scan

[Ian_H]

Hallo,

just seen this thread. October 1974 Railway Modeller has a plan Euston Minor with 7 platforms. It is actually a two track main, loco line to "Camden" and a track which dives under the main, however tweak the throat would allow all four lines to access all platforms. If you do not have a copy of the plan let me know and if you wish I could scan the side and send it to you via message as I'm sure reproduction here would infringe copyright

 

es grüßt

pc

I'd be grateful to receive a copy, I do have Railway Modeller from '74 but not the October issue for some reason.

 

Thanks

Ian

[roythebus]

I've probably posted this comment before, I was talking to Cyril Freezer one night in the Model Railway Club about his Minories plan and asked why the loco spurs were not accessible directly off the platform roads, like Moorgate widened lines in the 1970's. His reply was to make it more interesting to operate! The prototype was made easy to operate as it saved a lot of time and moves.

 

May I suggest Wimbledon or Richmond District Line stations pre-1972 as good places to model? Two into 4 platforms with parallel moves available on 4 of the platforms. I used to have sketch plans of these but these went a long time ago I think.  Maybe include the BR lines as a "roundy roundy" circuit?

Edited September 8, 2016 by roythebus

[Joseph_Pestell]

I've probably posted this comment before, I was talking to Cyril Freezer one night in the Model Railway Club about his Minories plan and asked why the loco spurs were not accessible directly off the platform roads, like Moorgate widened lines in the 1970's. His reply was to make it more interesting to operate! The prototype was made easy to operate as it saved a lot of time and moves.

 

May I suggest Wimbledon or Richmond District Line stations pre-1972 as good places to model? Two into 4 platforms with parallel moves available on 4 of the platforms. I used to have sketch plans of these but these went a long time ago I think.  Maybe include the BR lines as a "roundy roundy" circuit?

Wimbledon may be a bit big for anyone working in a scale greater than T.

[CloggyDog]

Wimbledon may be a bit big for anyone working in a scale greater than T.

 

 I took the 'May I suggest Wimbledon or Richmond District Line stations pre-1972 as good places to model?' to mean just the terminus side, rather than the whole through station.

 

Wimbledon A box covered the terminus platforms, http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srm/R324.htm

Richmond: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srr/R234.htm

 

Either could be adapted to lose the through lines and any connections thereto

[Joseph_Pestell]

 I took the 'May I suggest Wimbledon or Richmond District Line stations pre-1972 as good places to model?' to mean just the terminus side, rather than the whole through station.

 

Wimbledon A box covered the terminus platforms, http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srm/R324.htm

Richmond: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srr/R234.htm

 

Either could be adapted to lose the through lines and any connections thereto

Richmond perhaps the better option as there are the North London Line trains as well as LUL. Of course, going back far enough, the LSW ran trains from Wimbledon to Waterloo via Wandsworth as well as Richmond to Kensington Addison Rd (Olympia).

 

At one time, LUL considered a bit of a swap round of western destinations and Central Line trains might have been routed to Richmond giving further modelling possibilities.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Does this have to be a 'pair by use' 4 track design or is 'pair by direction' an option? Came up with a possible design over the weekend that may help if so.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Does this have to be a 'pair by use' 4 track design or is 'pair by direction' an option? Came up with a possible design over the weekend that may help if so.

Pair by direction tends to take up more space. But let's see it.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Ok, this is kinda 'evolution of an idea', and i'll admit it cheats a bit by narrowing in the throat. But it allows 2 arrivals or 2 departures (or 1 of each) to happen at once, the 'Minories' station throat fits into 4 point lengths as per the original and only uses 1 single slip outside of 'conventional' left and right points. (This plan has been created around track work i happen to have spare as i do want to tackle a Minories inspired plan at some point). The first plan is very simple but would work with multiple units and the odd item of loco hauled stock, but items Cromptonnut is trying to accomodate includes 4 car EMUs.

 

A reason, like a bridge, would probably be useful for the narrowing of the station throat. But i think 1 of the Glasgow terminus stations has something similar with 2 tracks bi-directional running straight out of a tunnel. I've marked the plans down into 4 sections for the relevant parts bearing in mind one of the earlier posts where it mentions Cyril talked about some of these features being imagined off scene rather than modelled, but it helps to create a bigger picture when you reach the station itself.

 

 

 

 

And commence issues with the plan

[cromptonnut]

Ideally 8 or 12 car EMU's would fit that even better but I know that won't all fit in 12ft ... something I can certainly draw up in XTrackCAD and have a play with though, certainly like that and I can already see a brick wall along the back of the track and some low relief buildings.

 

Now just to find a way to incorporate the freight trains I have ... not many inner urban termini happen to have stone handling facilities although I could probably get away with the milk depot idea.  Of course another way might be to have some terminating platforms as well as a couple of through platforms.

 

Off to work now but something to ponder inbetween angry customers because of cancellations due to an 'incident' at Wivelsfield.

[Satan's Goldfish]

That's why plan 4 has the 'Freight Branch' option for you You could smoosh plans 3 and 4 together if you'd like Passenger units to be able to arrive from from both Down lines. All freight has to arrive to turn around to get to it's eventual destination. Milk could be handled in the small goods yard with stone just being run around to head back for the branch.

[Foulounoux]

2x2 track approach

Screams Broad Street to me

Even the station was split into 2 boxes

 

And of course if you are strapped for cash you can start with the pre closure layout

[cromptonnut]

I was having a look at Opentraintimes maps yesterday and it struck me that the "relief line" concept you have above is very reminiscent of Windmill Bridge Junction via East Croydon to South Croydon where the East Grinstead line branches off the main line.

 

 

 

[cromptonnut]

Well now that the house purchase is beginning It looks like I should have a 13ft x 8ft shed to accommodate a layout so do I stick with an end to end, or try a roundy roundy?

 

At the moment I'm leaning towards the "double minories" idea but with one side being a terminating station and the other being a through line, in order to maximise potential, as well as going out into the garden at some point.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Well now that the house purchase is beginning It looks like I should have a 13ft x 8ft shed to accommodate a layout so do I stick with an end to end, or try a roundy roundy?

 

At the moment I'm leaning towards the "double minories" idea but with one side being a terminating station and the other being a through line, in order to maximise potential, as well as going out into the garden at some point.

A complete through station (as well as the terminus) may be a bit difficult in the space. But you could model just one end of the station with the station building on an overbridge.

 

Might be good too if the through station only serves one set of tracks.

[cromptonnut]

A complete through station (as well as the terminus) may be a bit difficult in the space. But you could model just one end of the station with the station building on an overbridge.

 

Might be good too if the through station only serves one set of tracks.

 

That was partly my thought - two through tracks with an overbridge hiding a 90 degree radius 2 and 3 curve, and the other two tracks forming the "bay platforms" and perhaps a parcels bay, with the Minories style crossovers and a relief line as previously discussed along with perhaps a couple of EMU stabling sidings.  Perhaps Reading-style where part is third rail and the rest is not.

[Satan's Goldfish]

That was partly my thought - two through tracks with an overbridge hiding a 90 degree radius 2 and 3 curve, and the other two tracks forming the "bay platforms" and perhaps a parcels bay, with the Minories style crossovers and a relief line as previously discussed along with perhaps a couple of EMU stabling sidings.  Perhaps Reading-style where part is third rail and the rest is not.

PM sent on a convoy we were having a while ago that may fit the requirement.

[Joseph_Pestell]

As this is a new shed, do you have a choice as to where the door goes? That can be a big factor in the layout design.

[cromptonnut]

As this is a new shed, do you have a choice as to where the door goes? That can be a big factor in the layout design.

 

I haven't started looking too much at sheds yet but I'm pretty sure the answer will be a yes, and I'm looking at having a removable section over the door way (in case of moving big things in and out) as well as being able to duck under it to get in and out.

 

As it backs on to the railway line I dare say I'll think of a door at that back edge as well as a window, and have it a couple of feet from the fence so there's room  to stand out there with a camera as well as being able to keep the hedge down so I can see...