cromptonnut Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Just wondered if anyone had ever planned, or built, or seen, a "double Minories" trackplan where you have a four track approach into the station going into multiple platforms. I have some ideas but don't want to reinvent the wheel if one already exists for inspiration, although my sketches so far do lose the compactness of the Minories approach. The nearest prototype I've come up with so far is Fenchurch Street itself which is basically five scissors crossovers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 How do you envisage that working? A four track approach with all platforms being accessible for arrivals and departures from both main lines and reliefs, which would be complicated. Or possibly two parallel Minories set ups, one each for main lines and reliefs with limited connection between them, perhaps only one middle platform with direct access to and from all lines, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 It may well be far too complicated to be practical, or need about 10ft for the station approach when far simpler solutions may well be all that is needed ... but as I said, it's just an idea bouncing around my head for a layout in a shed I don't yet own, in a house we haven't yet bought, with money we don't yet have. But it's nice to plan, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 But it's nice to plan, isn't it? Oh yes! cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted July 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well The only clever thing I can think of is interlacing the crossover ladders. The second version tries to minimise reverse curves (platforms on the left). But am I allowed 3 double slips? Cheers Chris Edit to say those are Streamline large radius points .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 I came up with a similar "double slips as far as the eye can see" arrangement and didn't know how prototypical it might end up looking especially if set in the 80s after rationalisation. I shall keep playing designing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted July 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2016 Fenchurch Street itself on the SRS site - http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lner/E95.gif (no idea of the date). Note the use of single slips with separate crossovers to allow parallel moves to occur, which is a fairly common feature in British practice. The bend in the station throat absorbs many reverse curves in the Minories style, but a few remain. Quite a compact station to be fed by a four track approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi Cromptonnut, Why not look at your own back yard. The north end of Gatwick where Gat EX came down the fast lines but crossed over to use platform 1 and 2. With the latest developments you now have the additional platforms on the fast side. I have often played with the idea of a model from the north face of the station buildings up to the footbridge between Gatwick and Horley. I would leave in the fuel sidings off the slow lines and as its my railway I would leave in the aggregate line that was built for the M23 construction just to allow more movements..... Keith HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2016 Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2016 Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points. That's a triple Minories off quadruple track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2016 Also take a look at Birmingham New Street if you want to fit a gallon into a pint pot. As with Kings Cross most of the pointwork fits into about 200 yards at each end. The approach tracks can access between six and eleven platforms IIRC, but don't try running a Mk1 coupled to a Mk2 or Mk3 at more than 10 mph from No.9 towards Monument Lane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L&Y Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 CJ Freezer did one or two. Pretty sure I have it somewhere. 2nd edition plans for larger layouts (1973). L2 under City specials. Part of a 9'6" X 5'6" layout. It's 10' X 2' for the terminus using plain 24" inch turnouts. But flows quite well. Would need to redraw it into scarm or something to print it here. Too much railway for modern thinking but could be reworked into an L shape layout to reversing loops to make it manageable to work. You can get it on ebay if your interested. Not quite minories but it looks impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Was'nt this in 60 Plans for Small Layouts too at one time. Seem to remember it was planned in a modular context Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I think somewhere like Fenchurch Street, where all lines access all platforms, would (in model terms) be quite boring to operate. Some termini with multiple approach tracks were largely worked as two separate stations, with only limited transfer links between the two sides. London Victoria (Eastern and Central sides) and Bradford Exchange are examples that spring to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have designed a "double Minories", based on the idea of a terminus near Barbican shared by GW and GE (Enfield) services. But unlike the plans above, one could not access all platforms from all tracks. That makes operation a bit more complex and therefore interesting. It also saves space on the approaches although the plans above are very good. Nothing wrong with using plenty of double slips in a confined city terminus setting. Just beware that the "medium radius" Peco slip is nothing of the sort! Not a problem with r-t-r locos in 00 but some kit-built locos might struggle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Gut feel is that, while such a terminus is as possible in model form as it is in reality, they aren't very popular partly because of space, but also because of the sheer intensity of operation for one individual - Minories is about as busy as one wants for something that one isn't getting paid to do! There are club layouts with "big" termini, including one of Kings Cross (Gainsborough club?). A factor to think about is how many parallel moves one wants to make in and out. An ultimate terminus for a four track line ought to permit two simultaneous departures, simultaneous with two arrivals, for a high percentage of combinations of road-to-platform, which leads to a serious amount of point-work. But, a "sleepy" place might tolerate most of the throat being "hogged" by many single moves, which requires a far less point-work. Steam-age provision for loco moves also complicates matters, which is part of why real railways hate loco-hauled trains. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Bradford Forster Square had an entry, which if the carriage sidings are removed, is similar in concept... Available in a decent scale to view here: https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/416271/433381/13/101329 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L&Y Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Had a go at drawing CJ Freezers version. But when he did it there were no double slips or curved points so it's changed a little to try and get rid of some of the dog legs/compromises. Top right small loco shed. Was supposed to be worked by tank engines like the original. Stuck at home with a chest infection so what else to do! On reflection a large Y in the middle and more medium radius points would improve it but you can see the idea. Even so it takes up 12' rather than the 9'6" of the original if 3'6" train lengths are to be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Put a return loop on that and you have the beginnings of a nice little layout I think Mr L&Y The double slip is very useful to give access to all platform faces from the stabling point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L&Y Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Replace most of the small radius turnouts with medium and it doesn't actually take any more space. Didn't quite work with the Y though. Middle platform should be wider I think. Sidings at the bottom for loco storage. This originally did go through an intermediate staion where the 4 tracks went back to 2 & then to a mostly hidden loop under the terminus itself. But just round to some hidden loops would do the same job. Enough there to build as it is. Its Mr Freezers plan not mine! Shame there wasn't the range of rtr track that there is now. I wonder what the guy would have churned out! edited to update plan. Now all large or med rad turnouts except in shed area. Tweaked a bit more. Note single slip. You can tell I'm bored. Still playing. Smoothed out a dogleg.....Added tunnel mouths and signal cabin, coal stage for fun. Final size 2' X 10' 9" for station board. 4' widest edge. minimum radius 36" curves into station. Scaled for 4mm/ft Peco streamline track library. Maximum Train length 46" so tank engine and short suburban coaches for best effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2016 Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points. There are many who would take issue with that Clive, the whole concept of Kings Cross is that it can't be done with standard pointwork, it loses its uniqueness. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2016 There are many who would take issue with that Clive, the whole concept of Kings Cross is that it can't be done with standard pointwork, it loses its uniqueness. Mike. Hi Mike With a little jiggery pokery the 1977 track plan can be done with Peco points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 I quite like that design, although I would take the furthest crossover from the station between the inner two tracks beyond the set of point next to it, or add in another set of points there, as that would enable running from all tracks to all platforms. At the moment you can't get from the inner track to the top platform, as far as I can tell? Liking these very much though, as they've actually given me an idea of having a through station on a loop round the inside of the shed plus the triangular junction out into the garden section, then a simple twin track junction going to this terminus on an upper level, with storage sidings on the lower level as part of the loop. All theoretical of course as we haven't found the house yet to put a shed in the garden of... but it's great to see how others can develop what was essentially a fairly simple question into actual potential layout ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2016 Charing Cross is a "double Minories". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Personally I think I've found the perfect location but the wife isn't so convinced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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