RAF96 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 I don't know whether the diesel stand alone TTS are different, but the class 31's I have don't have any speed adjustment at all past the motor control and acc/dec. The cv's just don't exist according to the interrogation of the decoders via JMRI/decoder pro. Izzy The steam and diesel stand alone decoders are the same as the factory fit decoders. The only diesel adjustment you have apart from that quoted is the sound notching brackets, which is just when noise changes not actual motor control. The steamers have BEMF cutoff point adjustment but again this does not control motor speed. They all have the option to change the motor algorithms and associated motor control PI values, but again this is not speed control as such. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 I don't know whether the diesel stand alone TTS are different, but the class 31's I have don't have any speed adjustment at all past the motor control and acc/dec. The cv's just don't exist according to the interrogation of the decoders via JMRI/decoder pro. Izzy How up to date is your JMRI? TTS is fairly new & my understanding of JMRI is that it recognises the decoder & offers you the choice of options it has been programmed with. I recently bought a class 60 decoder to try out TTS. JMRI recognised it as Hornby, presumably from the manufacturer code, but there was no class 60 listed. I first need to ensure that the latest JMRI is installed then I can actually install my Class 60 decoder. I should then see all the available options, assuming the person who added the class 60 to JMRI has added the correct features. I also understand that TTS is effectively a R8249 with sound. If so, CV3 & CV4 (+ve & -ve acceleration) should be available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted August 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2018 How up to date is your JMRI? TTS is fairly new & my understanding of JMRI is that it recognises the decoder & offers you the choice of options it has been programmed with. I recently bought a class 60 decoder to try out TTS. JMRI recognised it as Hornby, presumably from the manufacturer code, but there was no class 60 listed. I first need to ensure that the latest JMRI is installed then I can actually install my Class 60 decoder. I should then see all the available options, assuming the person who added the class 60 to JMRI has added the correct features. I also understand that TTS is effectively a R8249 with sound. If so, CV3 & CV4 (+ve & -ve acceleration) should be available. As you might see from other threads on here, new TTS decoder definitions are being generated. Although I have the latest current version of JMRI installed I’m not sure the 60 is there. And as you so rightly say, if you use any definition it will only feature the cv’s that it has been written with. So, in order to find out exactly what cv’s might exist on a decoder, the way is to use the generic/standard NMRA profile, select the ‘read all cv’s’ tab, and then do that. This will then search for and read all/any cv’s that exist, in order from cv1 on. If there is no cv to read then it returns the ‘loco not detected’ response. * Note that Hornsby TTS decoders must be read in direct and not paged mode. Having done this the only cv’s returned are those Hornby detail in their instruction leaflet. CV3 & CV4 exist, but no others related to speed setting as per RAFHAAA96’s post above. As I say I don’t know if this is standard across the TTS range, or if what cv’s exist vary between decoders. It’s a shame, but I suppose considering the price something has to give. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 As you might see from other threads on here, new TTS decoder definitions are being generated. Although I have the latest current version of JMRI installed I’m not sure the 60 is there. And as you so rightly say, if you use any definition it will only feature the cv’s that it has been written with. So, in order to find out exactly what cv’s might exist on a decoder, the way is to use the generic/standard NMRA profile, select the ‘read all cv’s’ tab, and then do that. This will then search for and read all/any cv’s that exist, in order from cv1 on. If there is no cv to read then it returns the ‘loco not detected’ response. * Note that Hornsby TTS decoders must be read in direct and not paged mode. Having done this the only cv’s returned are those Hornby detail in their instruction leaflet. CV3 & CV4 exist, but no others related to speed setting as per RAFHAAA96’s post above. As I say I don’t know if this is standard across the TTS range, or if what cv’s exist vary between decoders. It’s a shame, but I suppose considering the price something has to give. Generic/standard NMRA profile: that's useful to know. I will give it a look. I agree about having to give up on some functionality due to price. I don't mean that as a criticism though because it has given us decoders at a fraction of the price of fully-featured ones. It is more a case of learning what we can live without before choosing which decoder is best suited to the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted August 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2018 Generic/standard NMRA profile: that's useful to know. I will give it a look. I agree about having to give up on some functionality due to price. I don't mean that as a criticism though because it has given us decoders at a fraction of the price of fully-featured ones. It is more a case of learning what we can live without before choosing which decoder is best suited to the situation. Yes, totally agree. You will find the profile at the top of the list. Have fun! Hope it works out. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Other than for trade, the UK supply of small value resistors is quite limited - but I have ordered a number of 4 ohm and 5 ohm, both 5 watt. Once to hand, I can try various combinations in parallel and in series in the hope of getting that Lima speed fixation under some sort of control! The DF for the resistors I have on order is 4 weeks - a long wait. Meanwhile, doubts begin to enter my mind regarding the obvious effect of "dropper" resistors on motor generated back emf and how the TTS decoder might possibly interpret this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 The DF for the resistors I have on order is 4 weeks - a long wait. Meanwhile, doubts begin to enter my mind regarding the obvious effect of "dropper" resistors on motor generated back emf and how the TTS decoder might possibly interpret this. The steamers use BEMF for standard ‘cruise control’ up hill/down dale speed control and to control when the chuff rate changes pace and/or when to chuff or coast automatically. The diesels only use BEMF for cruise control. Noise is controlled by the TTW CV settings. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 The steamers use BEMF for standard ‘cruise control’ up hill/down dale speed control and to control when the chuff rate changes pace and/or when to chuff or coast automatically. The diesels only use BEMF for cruise control. Noise is controlled by the TTW CV settings. Rob Thank you for that Rob. I'll now need to find something else to worry about until the resistors arrive! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I was fortunate to get my heavy wattage low ohm resistors from Maplin afore they went. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I was fortunate to get my heavy wattage low ohm resistors from Maplin afore they went. Rob Yes, shame about Maplin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Joy of joys - resistors arrived. I needed to finish off some domestics before I could retire to my railway room, but got soldering this morning and soon had a 4ohm 5 watt connected in series with the Lima Class 20 motor. Grrrrr ........... still runs 20% faster for the same throttle setting. Next step; source a range of larger value resistors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Finally had to admit defeat with the LIma Class 20. Despite resistor trials and CV adjustments it simply would not have it in consist with the Hornby - one circuit of the layout was enough to convince me. However, all is not lost: Despite most suppliers having nil stock of the Hornby Class 20 TTS, I found one this morning and placed my order. There is still hope! Edited October 4, 2018 by brammie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Was a Lima dummy (stripped of drive) with a tts chip installed not an option? Edited October 4, 2018 by Ouroborus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 No Ouroborus, I needed the grunt of the two locos together to push a track cleaner around my layout - one alone will not do it. The second loco was a Lima, which ran fine with a Lenz chip but to run it with sound it needed the Hornby TTS chip (I tried using the Lenz chip to drive and a TTS chip for sound, but no go). As reported in my earlier posts, I simply could not speed match at anything other than one speed despite trying a range of options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 No Ouroborus, I needed the grunt of the two locos together to push a track cleaner around my layout - one alone will not do it. The second loco was a Lima, which ran fine with a Lenz chip but to run it with sound it needed the Hornby TTS chip (I tried using the Lenz chip to drive and a TTS chip for sound, but no go). As reported in my earlier posts, I simply could not speed match at anything other than one speed despite trying a range of options. Sorry, my apologies, i didn't read the earlier posts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Here's mine, they are fine for double heading but it was knocking the wagons off when the back one was powered so I took some gears out so it can free wheel. Richard Those “chop” beautifully. Lights too! Super job. Let’s hope that soon we lesser mortals will be able to run something similar thanks to Hatton’s and Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Here's mine, they are fine for double heading but it was knocking the wagons off when the back one was powered so I took some gears out so it can free wheel. https://youtu.be/SxrPMEl61KM Richard Richard, I could understand the occasional wagon derailing with one loco at each end of your wagon run. How did it work out with the locos coupled at the front - assuming you tried that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Having purchased a second new Hornby Class 20 TTS I was somewhat miffed to discover that both of my two Class 20s would operate only when pointing in one (the same) direction - thus preventing nose to tail operation. Both decoders in the post to Hornby for software update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Do these TTS decoders work correctly with the Lenz DCC system? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Do these TTS decoders work correctly with the Lenz DCC system? How do you mean? I have driven a Lima Class 20 fitted with a Lenz chip for the drive, and a TTS chip and speaker fitted for sound - drive, but no sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Do these TTS decoders work correctly with the Lenz DCC system? Why not? It was the R8215 which did not work properly. The TTS is basically an R8249 with sound. I have not heard of compatibility issues with this decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Why not? It was the R8215 which did not work properly. The TTS is basically an R8249 with sound. I have not heard of compatibility issues with this decoder. Thanks for the info, that's good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Both Class 20 TTS decoders back from Hornby - reprogrammed to run pointing in either direction. Currently installing header lights in both locos. Plan to set up a "consist" when completed. Meanwhile, the layout is in the process of two new diaoramas - one a small piggery set up by one of our neighbours on a council estate in Gt Clacton. The other, a terminal for coach traffic from London together with an adjacent bus/coach service/repair depot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brammie Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Pleased to report that both Hornby TTS Class 20s running again, each with lower left head light at the cab end - and working apporopriate to direction of travel. DCCconcepts 2mm Tower PROTO White, although they do lean towards amber. I have 1K droppers in series, but may just double that to dim the lights. I understand the white lead to be intended for the other end of the loco (the front, but the rear on Class 20 "cab first"), but I can't get a squeak out of mine. I've finished for today, but if anyone can put me right on the white lead lights, I would be grateful. Hopefully when this marathon is over I can set the locos up for consist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 If you are running them nose to nose then think about what you want to see. Assume the nose is the front of the 20 and the cab end is the rear. So we have a loco pair with 2 rear ends. The white wire will light the light on the front (nose) of the loco. The yellow wire will light the light on the rear (cab) end of the loco. Hence the yellow wire will light the light on the forward going loco of the pairing and the white wires are not used if you dont want/have nose lights working. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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