Gladiator 7mm Stanier Duchess

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

It's been a while and having battled through a couple of bouts of flu I've done little, anyway you've buggered off to your painting class L1 and your new build a Finney A3.

 

Lucky find, I shall be watching, looking very good so far.

 

I've finished off the cylinders. I am well pleased. Did the lining myself, although I have now been to Fox for the rest.

 

And so to bed

 

Now working on the cab pipe work.  work in process

 

All for now

 

Pete

 

 

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Hi Pete,

Nice work. Good to hear you are making progress and sorry to hear you've been down with the flu. It's that time of year.

 

I see you've added the webs to the ends of the slidebar brackets. It's a bit of a fiddle but worth the effort.

 

Have you lined the cylinders in red or is it just the colour rendition on the screen? They should be orange.

 

Keep on posting. With the distraction of the A3, you may end up finishing before me.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Yeah them dam slidebar brackets, as you say they do make a difference.

 

It's the photo, those lines are very much orange.

 

It's a long way off yet, but what colour should the cab roof interior be. On COB it's white and her ladyship is black or very dark grey?

 

Going to see if I can finish of the pipe work today.

 

Running out of things to do. Still waiting for my ABC (ordered beginning of Dec) so I cant do anything on the chassis, and me firebox. Still I could paint the tender.

 

Pete

[Dave Holt]

Pete,

I think the cab roof colour depends on the era you're modelling, in theory, at least.

In LMS days, the inside of the cab roof was painted white. However, in service it rapidly became discoloured, becoming cream and probably ending up a dirty brown or nearly black with grime.

Officially, in BR days the cab roof was black but I wouldn't be surprised if some works continued with pre-BR practice as an unofficial variation. Interestingly, BR specified black between the frames but I believe many locos were painted vermilion, as per pre-nationalisation practice.

Sorry if that confuses the issue!

Dave.

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Hi Pete,

Just checked my CoB photos and  the roof is white. Based on what Dave says (unless somebody knows better) it  should  be  black but  some works may have  continued their pre BR practice.  However, you  can't be  sure  if that is  applicable  to the  period you are modelling.  Also who know  if  CoB ever ran with a  white  roof?  Maybe it was just a  parting finger to BR  from the  Crewe painters when it was cosmetically restored????  The white extends down the  cab front and  sides to the  level of  the  bottom of the  side windows,

 

This  is  one  of your photos posted earlier.

 

It shows a red/brown colour on part of the  roof where it  slopes.  Hard to be  sure, but  looking at your other cab photos would  suggest the rest of the  roof is maybe the  same, and it  continues down to the  bottom of  the  cab windows on the  sides.

 

I have  a  photo of  the  Masterpiece Models CoB I pulled off their website some  time ago, and what little  can be  seen of  the  roof  shows a white/cream roof. One assumes that for  £3 grand a pop, they have  done it that colour  based on research but  who knows?  Could  be  they just looked at the  real CoB which does have  a  white roof.

 

So nothing conclusive. 

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

I have been following your superb build of the Finny A3, way to go!!!

 

At last I've Finished the boiler back, so I thought I'd share some pics.

 

First the rear

As you have done, it's totally removable. So the fire box, boiler and smoke box will also be removable.

Sorry Dave but I got all the valves etc from Ragstone and Laurie Griffin. The detail is excellent.

 

I made the fire door mech and the regulator lever.

I put a little colour on the fire doors.

And in situ 

 

I am very pleased with the way it has turned out. Took ages and was very fiddly but I think it was worth it.

 

I noticed you have added the shield to the left of the fire doors. In your pics of COB it's not there, so I was wondering if it was fitted to DOS to shield the equipment that was added to keep her on the rails.

 

Front splashers ;  Talking to Richard at Finney as to the covers over the lube pipes on DOS. He wasn't sure if they where original or added as part of her preservation.

He shared two photos ( he has asked me not to share then on the net ) one of COB and one of DOH. Both show the pipes uncovered, but if you look close you can see that they are recessed within the splashers so a cover would fit.

So were the covers fitted as std and were remover over the years for maintenance ease ?

I am modelling mid 50s to early 60s so I'd like to get it right.

 

I can't do much more until I get the fire box, so I'm going to put her away for now. I might paint the tender we will see.

 

I'm hoping to get delivery of a M7 from Finney this week, so I thought I might try a thread on the build. I know I will get plenty of support and advice from all.

 

All for now

 

Pete

 

 

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Hi Pete,

Thanks for your comments on the A3. It's definitely the best kit I have purchased to date. It's a bit complex and there are quite a few fiddly little etchings, but everything fits exactly as it should.

 

You've got me thinking about the heat shield in the cab and I'll look into that. I believe it was a standard fitting and should be there. Same with the bracket on the front splasher. I'll check my CoB photos and get back to you.

 

Your boiler back plate looks very good.

 

Will you be going to Kettering on 3rd March? I hope to get there and if so will bring the Duchess for a spin on the test track. It's still not painted as I have been "distracted" by the A3.

 

Keep updating the progress with your Duchess and I look forward to seeing your efforts with the M7.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

I've checked my photos of CoB and  DoS, plus the  ones you  posted of  DoS.

 

First the  heat shield in the  cab. Definitely not on CoB but  is  on DoS  (check your photos). It's also present  on a cab shot  of one  of  the original streamliners in the  Book of  the  Coronation and  I'm pretty sure  it's a standard fitting. The cab floor of  CoB has metal framed sheets of what looks like plywood which I suspect have  been added post preservation. Possibly for  heath and  safety reasons as access into the  cab is  only roped off. It may be  that the  heat  shield was removed when these sheets were fitted and  for  some  reason, not  replaced. Maybe it  was  corroded and they could not be  arsed making a  replacement???? In any case, I'm confidant  it  should be fitted.

 

The lubricator clamp and retaining nut are definitely present on the  front right  splasher on CoB and the  nut  is  present  on the  left hand one.  From the  angle  of  the  photo, I cannot  see the  clamp.  On DoS, only the  nuts are present  on both sides and  the  lubricator pipes are routed behind the  splashers, not  over the  top. I suspect that is  a  post preservation change but  cannot  be  sure. I have  routed the pipes over the splashers and  fitted the  clamps both sides, as Richard Lambert has  with his Finney build. There is  another clamp both sides just in front of  the  sand pipe filler as well.        

DoS has many  modifications since  preservation and  is  not  as good a reference as CoB. Bloody preservationists are no help to us  modellers!    

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

I've been having a closer look at the  CoB cab photos. Have  a look at the end of  the  fire door slider rails on the  left. Notice the  two bolt hole loops which I'm sure  are  the  mounting points for  the heat shield.

 

This  is  your shot showing the heat shield, but  it cannot  be  seen if it  is fastened to the  ends of the fire door slider rails.

 

Here's a cropped shot of  the  right front splasher.  Not  the  best of  resolution but  clearly shows the  nut  and  clamp over the  lubricator pipes. The forward clamp can also be seen and  this  has  a  nut  at  each end rather than in the  middle.

 

This  is  one of  your photos. It shows the  clamp forward of the  sandbox filler but  with only  one central nut!  The lubricator pipes can clearly be seen running rearward, but  do not  run over the  splasher, so must be routed under the running plate. The redundant nut  for  the  clamp can be seen. Maybe the  pipes are clamped to the  underside of  the  splasher, but  why take  them on a more complex route????

 

Hope this  helps.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited February 17, 2018 by PAD

[dikitriki]

Hi Peter (PAD),

 

I think you are misreading Peter B's photo. The pipes are not under the footplate, but running between the top of the splasher and bottom of a cover that is clamped over them in 3 places. The giveaway is that the front and back faces of the front splasher (only) on all Duchesses are proud of the top. In t'other Peter's photo, they are flush, which means there must have been a decorative cover clamped over the pipes. I cannot see this as being anything other than a preservation affectation, but I am very happy to be proved wrong.

 

Richard

Edited February 18, 2018 by dikitriki

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Hi Peter (PAD),

 

I think you are misreading Peter B's photo. The pipes are not under the footplate, but running between the top of the splasher and bottom of a cover that is clamped over them in 3 places. The giveaway is that the front and back faces of the front splasher (only) on all Duchesses are proud of the top. In t'other Peter's photo, they are flush, which means there must have been a decorative cover clamped over the pipes. I cannot see this as being anything other than a preservation affectation, but I am very happy to be proved wrong.

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

It was not  so much that I was misreading Petebe's photo, more that I did not  know  what to make  of  it, and  was guessing. Also I did not  realise that the  pipes on CoB are running not  just over the  top of  the  splasher, but  in a  channel. Petebe mentioned it in his post but  again I did not  understand what he  meant.

 

Having looked through  my CoB photos I found a much better illustration of the  front splasher (RH side). The raised edges you  mention on the  front and  rear faces can be seen, as can the  pipes running over the  top in a channel and  the  central clamp and  nut. I was only stood about 4 feet away when I took the  photo, and  the  channel just did not  register.  Not  seeing  the  wood for  the  trees!

 

I also found this  image of  46229 DoH in the  Power of  the  Duchesses which I have cropped. It's not  clear but  I think it  is  showing the  same  thing. 

 

I wonder why they bothered to cover the  pipes on DoS, when so many more  are visible  further  back???

 

What about  the heat shield  next to the  fire hole door? Do you  agree that is  should  be  present and  that the  bolt holes I mention are where  it  was  fitted?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Hi Peter       Richard and Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

 

When I visited DOS at Butterly I got to talk to a Guy called Brian Radford, he then bullied me into buying his book ( he did sign it for me ) called "6233 Duchess of Sutherland and the Princess Coronation Class"

by Brell Ewart & Brian Radford. 

I have been through it several times, so this morning I went through it again. Page 34 shows a pic of DOS without the smoke deflectors taken in July 1938 and you can just about see the COVER over the splasher.

As I said earlier, Maybe they were all fitted with a cover from new and over time they were removed for ease of maintenance or the fitters couldn't be arsed to refit them.

 

The two pics of COB and DOH from Richard and yours of COB above are all on the right hand side, all show the recess and all have 8 pipes. However on the left hand side there are 16 pipes, all on both sides pass over

the splashers. 

 

I take it that the pipes on both COB and DOH have three clamps holding them in place, and in the same position as the nuts on top of the covers on DOS.

 

On the centre splasher right hand side only there is another bracket which is unused, but it does look like it's always been there. I wonder when this stopped being used.

 

There are no helpful pics off the cab re shield in the book.

 

The ball volleyed back over the net

 

Pete

 

 

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

Then you  pays your money and  takes your choice.  I can't  help you  further on the splasher/lub. pipe covers, and  you  were in fact ahead of me on this.  If they were originally fitted pre war,  I think it's likely they started to disappear during the  war to aid maintenance, and post war shortages of  labour would  have  meant that the  luxury of  these cosmetic covers could  no longer  be  afforded. I would  suggest they were no longer  there  in the  1950s.

 

I'm convinced the  heat shield should  be  there.

 

You mention modelling mid 50s to early 60s which is  not possible.  Early 50s to around 1957 or  so,  they were in lined green with the  early logo. Without checking, I can't  remember when some were painted red.  After about  1957 the  later BR emblem was introduced, so for  DoS in green, you can go for  pre 1957ish or post 1957ish to withdrawal in the  60s. Also after 1957, speedos and  AWS were added.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Got to say thank you and to Richard. Thought there might be someone out there with an answer heyho.

 

I think I'm going to fit the covers, also I'll model it pre 1957. The layout I have in mind DOS would not have run on. I bought it for the challenge having gone up to York on her. Anyway It will be my layout and I'll run what I want............It will be the only odd one though.

 

If you think the shield should be fitted then I will fit it.

 

Pete

[Petebe]

Oh yes I nearly forgot. I was uming and aring as to Kettering. If you are going and you intend to bring her ladyship then I think I'll make the trip. I would very much like to see her.

 

Let me know

 

Pete

[Dave Holt]

 

If you think the shield should be fitted then I will fit it.

 

Pete

 

Peter, There's a photo of 6230 in as-built condition on page 74 of the Wild Swan profile book which clearly shows a heat shield fitted, if that helps. There's no reason to suppose this loco was special in that respect.

 

Dave.

[PAD]

Oh yes I nearly forgot. I was uming and aring as to Kettering. If you are going and you intend to bring her ladyship then I think I'll make the trip. I would very much like to see her.

 

Let me know

 

Pete

Hi Pete,

Yes I will be going to Kettering and bringing her ladyship. The loco not the missus.

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Peter

 

See you there

[Hilux5972]

Hi Peter

 

When do we get to see the finished loco?

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When it comes back from the painter.

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Some recent work on the Duchess parts not at the painter's.

 

First the wheels, buffer heads, couplings and bogie axles have been chemically blackened. The axle nuts have still to be done.

 

The boiler backplate has been painted but I need to add the dials.

 

And from the other side.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[k22009]

Just starting my own build of the Duchess and as Hobbyhorse developments seem to be no longer available i thought i'd try and make up some Cinder guards for the cab windows as the locating holes for some are etched in place.

 

The cab before it gets folded and without the window frames

 

 

I have used some small channel section, measured between the hinge locating holes and marked off the side width and depth

 

 

Filed through at the marks with a triangular file

 

 

Cut off to length and bent over to form 90 degree bends

 

 

Soldered up

 

 

and lugs from some 1.5mm wide brass with 0.45 diameter rod soldered into to form the hinges

 

 

These will be added with the window frames before bending the unit to fit the footplate, small pieces of glazing will be added after painting.

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I tried something similar in the past but yours are much better than I achieved. Now you've shown me how to do it I might give it another try. It's a shame Hobbyhorse shut down as they did some really nice castings.

 

Is it the Gladiator kit you are building?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[k22009]

Hi Dave,

I tried something similar in the past but yours are much better than I achieved. Now you've shown me how to do it I might give it another try. It's a shame Hobbyhorse shut down as they did some really nice castings.

 

Is it the Gladiator kit you are building?

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Hi Peter

 

Yes the Gladiator kit, i've been inspired by your fantastic build to get cracking on it (especially after seeing your A3 too, wow. Just waiting for David to get the new firebox back so i can get on with the build properly i thought i'd wait to make sure the length of the new unit is the same before i start chopping the smoke box down.

 

I've used 1mm x 1mm channel from Eileens, they are a bit fragile until soldered, you just need to be careful not to file into the web of the channel which would obviously weaken it before bending over. 

 

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

Many thanks for the kind words. I hope you find my build useful in building yours and enjoy the kit as much as I did. On the whole it's a really nice so it will be good to hear that David has been able to put the firebox right.

Cheers,

Peter