Jump to content




Photo

When TT3 was the next Big Thing





  • Please log in to reply
695 replies to this topic

#676 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 11 May 2018 - 14:58

The GWR loading gauge was higher*, so they needed to be trimmed down to run on inferior lines. Prior to preservation there was no real need,

 

Looking at Google Images and once all the interlopers are filtered out (preservation (strange blue colour? :scratchhead:), computer images  :o  and other classes) and ignoring double chimneys, they seem, to me at least, to be all the same.

 

* But still lower than it was in the days of Brunel and Stephenson.

David,  I thought a few (or all ) Kings were painted blue in early BR days not just preservation?  I did not like the MT lining on them though as in this photo.

 

You might not want to see mine when finished lol  Just waiting for some nameplates now.

 

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • Blue King.jpg




#677 BernardTPM

BernardTPM

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,083 posts

Posted 11 May 2018 - 22:52

Quite a few received the standard Express Blue, but I suspect that one's a 1948 (or thereabouts) one-off.


Edited by BernardTPM, 11 May 2018 - 22:52 .


#678 Il Grifone

Il Grifone

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationEssex next to the LT&SR and Sardinia Costa dei Grifoni

Posted 12 May 2018 - 08:54

They all received BR blue. (It was supposed to be a joke but obviosly failed!.  :o  Sorry.)

 

Someone at Swindon obviously had a misguided burst of enthusiasm for the new regime. AFAIK the Kings were the only class where all members received this livery.

 

The story goes that there was still some Caledonian paint in store at Polmadie and some Duchesses were repainted with it. Euston was apparently not impressed!

(I'm not sure of the veracity of this, as I understood the BR colour was Prussian blue*, which was also the Caledonian blue.

Riddles being ex LNWR managed to get its livery adopted for mixed traffic locomotives and well the Caledonian was LMS too, so....

Apparently the colour tended to fade (OK for Scottish rain, but no good for English sun? or was it just a rubbish modern synthetic pigment?)

 

* It's the colour I painted my blue Dublo Duchess and it looks right to me - I still have to do the lining....

 

Garry

 

That's the early experimental livery. The final colour chosen was lighter.

 

Apparently Sir Felix Pole said that he was glad to have gone blind as it meant he didn't have to see a blue King!

 

These are Jigsaws but contemporary - take the tender colour as the boilers seem darker because they're in shade.

http://steamtrainjig...lue-livery.html

 

It seems to be difficult to find colour photos showing the colour. I have a children's book somewhere with a blue Duchess (Atholl IIRC) on the cover, but again it's an artist's rendition. (A memory of my youth, but unfortunately a replacement copy! "What did you get that for?", said SWMBO - not an exact quote but along those lines....)

 

EDIT

 

RMweb wins again and a King (post #9)

 

http://www.rmweb.co....r-express-blue/

 

A thought on the jigsaws -The Scots were class 7P and shouldn't be blue. Nobody told Wrenn, but correct liveries weren't their strong point.

 

David


Edited by Il Grifone, 12 May 2018 - 09:28 .

  • Informative/Useful x 1

#679 NCB

NCB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 545 posts

Posted 12 May 2018 - 19:59

Blue Kings? Ugh! Anybody knows that the correct colour for a locomotive is Green, especially if it comes from Swindon. Even the Southern knew that. Blue is worse than Red.

 

Nigel


  • Agree x 1

#680 Il Grifone

Il Grifone

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationEssex next to the LT&SR and Sardinia Costa dei Grifoni

Posted 13 May 2018 - 06:48

The LBSCR painted their locomotives yellow, but still called it green (thinking nobody would notice?). From the early days, paint came in 'engine green'.

 

GJC tried red for locomotives, but soon reverted to green. Red carriages lasted a bit longer. (Strangely, as the GWR had recently given up using red for wagons.   :scratchhead:)



#681 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:55

I thought some GER locos were blue, J69,
B12?.

The blue used from what I heard for the BR steam locos (not the purple shade) was as David said Ultramarine and the best version is RAL 5002 which is what I have used on two Dublo locos and two TT ones. The Merchant Navy earlier in this thread used that shade. I had mine mixed at Halfords before they contracted out paint mixing.

To me I prefer BR green on any express loco apart from a Duchess which is better in red, but, I do like the blue on a King, Duchess, M/N and the A1's. I don't think it suits the A3 and 4's. When in Blue then better still with Blood and Custard stock behind.

Garry

Edited by Golden Fleece 30, 13 May 2018 - 07:58 .

  • Agree x 1

#682 sagaguy

sagaguy

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • LocationNorthampton

Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:48

Not a TT modeller myself but i didn`t know that Jouef made TT coaches for Playcraft.

 

                                     

                                 Item no.112985544059
 
                             Ray.

Edited by sagaguy, 13 May 2018 - 08:49 .


#683 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:26

[quote name="sagaguy" post="3162671" timestamp="1526201326"]


Not a TT modeller myself but i didn`t know that Jouef made TT coaches for Playcraft.

It's not TT Ray, it is HO. Playcraft had a few HO items in the 60's and sold a lot in Woolworths etc but due to poor motors, and looks the 2 locos were not appealing. The coaches looked better including the Royal Mail but obviously undersized. They did use a Dublo style coupling but never TT.

Garry

#684 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:53

Getting back to TT proper here is the King as it is now.
The chassis is going to give a little concern to fit as Mr Know It All, when assembling the parts after striping, managed to put the main casting for the rear fitting the wrong way around. As this item is screwed in and the roof is above the screws I cannot remove it, the body is all soldered up now.

I may be able to grind a little off but most likely will do a chassis mod as well.

The loco will hopefully get a satin smoke box and roof later when I get some nameplates. There are three or four options for names from the Kings Cross range. A previous owner had for some reason filed most of the nameplate holder off the casting so I have made some nickel ones and soldered them to the splasher.

Does anyone notice something about the Tri-ang tender?

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSC_0464.JPG
  • DSC_0463.JPG

  • Like x 2

#685 Wolseley

Wolseley

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 289 posts
  • LocationHills District, Sydney, Australia

Posted 13 May 2018 - 13:34

The LBSCR painted their locomotives yellow, but still called it green (thinking nobody would notice?).

 

 

Didn't the story go that Stroudley was colour blind and thought the colour was green, so he called it green, and nobody wanted to contradict him?  Or is that the railway equivalent of an urban myth?



#686 NCB

NCB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 545 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 14:58

Getting back to TT proper here is the King as it is now.
The chassis is going to give a little concern to fit as Mr Know It All, when assembling the parts after striping, managed to put the main casting for the rear fitting the wrong way around. As this item is screwed in and the roof is above the screws I cannot remove it, the body is all soldered up now.

I may be able to grind a little off but most likely will do a chassis mod as well.

The loco will hopefully get a satin smoke box and roof later when I get some nameplates. There are three or four options for names from the Kings Cross range. A previous owner had for some reason filed most of the nameplate holder off the casting so I have made some nickel ones and soldered them to the splasher.

Does anyone notice something about the Tri-ang tender?

Garry

 

Tender looks a bit low to me. Wagon wheels?

 

Nigel



#687 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 15:50

Tender looks a bit low to me. Wagon wheels?

Nigel


Not that Nigel, wheels are standard Tri-ang ones. I think I know what made you say that though.

Garry

#688 NCB

NCB

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 545 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 16:40

Not that Nigel, wheels are standard Tri-ang ones. I think I know what made you say that though.

Garry

Look's like a reasonable rendition of a GWR 4000 gallon tender. Might just be a 3500 gallon tender which would be unusual behind a King. Other than that, can't see anything.

 

Nigel



#689 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 13 May 2018 - 16:47

It is actually the standard Tri-ang top that has had the bottom lip removed and a new base giving the bottom lip glued to the base. This gives the top a slight increase in height allowing a better depth of lining. As it is the Tri-ang tops, which are supposed to be 4000 gal, look too low with a narrow depth on the lining. Mine is only about one and half mm but makes a lot of difference.

The extra body height might have made you think the base was low.

Garry

Edited by Golden Fleece 30, 13 May 2018 - 16:48 .

  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 1
  • Like x 1

#690 Il Grifone

Il Grifone

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationEssex next to the LT&SR and Sardinia Costa dei Grifoni

Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:21

Didn't the story go that Stroudley was colour blind and thought the colour was green, so he called it green, and nobody wanted to contradict him?  Or is that the railway equivalent of an urban myth?

 

I believe it's someone's guess as to the reason, but could well be true. It would probably have been more than your job was worth to argue anyway. these were the days when 'the boss' could design and build his own runabout. (Another railway, but....)

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1304&bih=702



#691 Il Grifone

Il Grifone

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationEssex next to the LT&SR and Sardinia Costa dei Grifoni

Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:34

Garry,

 

The tender looks a bit too long to me, but that could be the angle and the effect of the underscale wheels. The rivets are rather dodgy as well.  It is Tri-ang of course....

 

The reason the nameplate holder was filed off would be that it doesn't exist on the real thing. IIRC they were held on by a couple of brackets.

 

http://collection.sc...team-locomotive

 

EDIT missed your answer - serves me right for double posting!

 

David


Edited by Il Grifone, 14 May 2018 - 07:36 .


#692 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:43

Garry,

 

The reason the nameplate holder was filed off would be that it doesn't exist on the real thing. IIRC they were held on by a couple of brackets.

 

David

Hi David, the nameplate holders I am referring to are the ones that all models have to fix the nameplates to.  I know WR locos A3's etc all used brackets but in model terms, especially this small, that is impracticable and without a decent sized piece of metal it is difficult to fasten the plates on.  I have no idea why the person filed these down as a King plate is quite large.

 

The GEM unrebuilt Scot has a very small lug which not only is too small to glue a plate too it is set too far back on the splasher to take a nameplate with regiment badge vertical. The plate leans forward from pressing on the boiler.  What I have done is make one that fits on the front of cast splasher as I have found that the Scots at least had their nameplate proud of the splasher unlike most locos where it sits on top.

 

I know what you mean about the Tri-ang tender base, it looks low and probably more so now the body is taller.

 

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • Scot nameplate 3.jpg
  • Scot nameplate 2.jpg

  • Like x 2

#693 Il Grifone

Il Grifone

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationEssex next to the LT&SR and Sardinia Costa dei Grifoni

Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:55

Hi Garry,

 

Yes I know models need something robust to support the nameplate. I was thinking along the lines of a pin soldered to the back of the plate and located in a suitable hole drilled in the boiler, then held firm with a dab of Araldite. My 'City of Bristol (3712 not 6237 - there's no problem with the latter!)) had hers glued in place and shed one years ago. She's scheduled for a rebuild....

 

The real thing doesn't have to resist giant fingers picking her up!

 

David


  • Like x 1

#694 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 14 May 2018 - 14:37

Here are some of the unrebuilt Royal Scots. The green one has the nameplate holder as original like grey one on the right. That was a soldered body so will get a new front splasher as the grey one on the left. This one had its new one soldered in position. None of the tenders were stripped and two need their wheels painting black. They will all have their smoke deflectors fitted when varnished.

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSC_0520.JPG
  • DSC_0521.JPG

  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 3
  • Like x 1

#695 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 18 May 2018 - 17:21

A cheap A1/3 started being made.  I say cheap as this is the Atlas model that cost me £3.99, I know there are a lot of short comings with the model but it is a compromise and better than nothing.  The footplate took some cutting out as the diecast footplate/frames are the width of Tri-ang wheels, thankfully the plastic body comes of easily.  This has been made to fit the Britannia/M-Navy chassis.  I know the wheels are under size and not quite the correct spacing etc but it is a quick way of getting an A1/3 cheaply.  The smokebox door did not look like an A series class loco but the V2 did so I just used a spare V2 one.  The plastic buffer beam was poor and did split while removing it so a nickel one with Tri-ang buffers has been made and fitted. The chassis fits nicely but I am looking at making a little bit better valve gear, I did get a test set of slide bars etc etched a while ago for this project.

 

Hopefully it will be primed tonight and maybe have its green on.

 

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • Flying Scotsman 1.JPG
  • Flying Scotsman 2.JPG

Edited by Golden Fleece 30, 18 May 2018 - 17:22 .

  • Like x 3

#696 Golden Fleece 30

Golden Fleece 30

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 18 May 2018 - 18:43

The local paint shop is under a little pressure here.  Along with about 8 locos to build there is also a couple more waiting for a Caustic Soda bath before painting then a few need lining with even more waiting for a supply of varnish to appear.  Slowly getting along with finishing off a lot of started ones but have taken delivery today of a converted A1A-A1A to a class 33 with 2 DMU bogies which needs a visit to the paint shop one day.

 

Garry

Attached Thumbnails

  • Local paintshop.JPG

  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 2
  • Like x 1