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September 2017 RM





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#1 Neil

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:04

Much taken with Steve Flint's editorial in this issue which steps into new territory looking at the implications that real world events may have on the hobby. Boiled down to basics it looks at the impact that raising the state pension age, young adults being unable to get on the property ladder and the insecure tennancies for those renting has for the hobby. Steve's prose is better than my brutal precis and should be read in full. Traditionally the world of the Railway Modeller has seemed to be a cosy, inward looking one where the only difficulties experienced are those of working out layout wiring or dealing with the tedium of ballasting. It's good to see an acknowledgement that some face challenges other than those presented by model making.


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#2 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 21:49

One reason I am now a firm supporter of RM, is that Steve is prepared to stray into non traditional railway modelling territory.

It is not just the effect on hobbies like ours, but also any institution based on volunteers(especially fit retired ones). What effect does it have on getting volunteers for preserved railways.

 

Then again maybe it is Steve saying he will be in the editorial job for a few more years!

 

 

Good issue this month, I just wish some would actually start to think about issues raised. Considering we are partaking in a creative hobby, it is amazing just how uncreative some are and how difficult t is to get some to realise some things have to change(just think carefully about the issues referred to in the letters page about mobility scooters).Maybe someone will be a able to start a sensible discussion on practical layout height at exhibitions. Wobbly legs(?) and crashes with mobility scooters might be on the increase.

 

Love the boxfile layout, pity the concept of gauge and scale is muddled. At least it has prompted me to look at my own ideas for a Gauge One (1/32 on 45mm gauge track) layout on lids of 3 box files. I plan to have one point(already got), and 3 working wagon turntables. Won't say more as I would like to do some more on the idea.


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 11 August 2017 - 21:50 .


#3 andyman7

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 21:59

I have some wartime and post war model railway publications and the most fascinating thing from back then is the desire, enthusiasm and creativity in building models from the most basic household materials in an environment where any sort of specialist product was non-existent or in very short supply. Given that between then and now is littered with 70 odd years of RTR 'stuff' as far as I can see even if the hobby becomes a niche one and RTR stopped tomorrow it would survive!

 

Like everything else, things change. The generation spanning the years 1950-2020 grew up with a society that one way or another has provided their needs from cradle to grave - as children they had Tri-ang and Hornby Dublo; now they have Bachmann and Hornby super detail. I suspect when they are gone that era will pass too - but as long as people want to model, it will go on in some form.


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#4 grahame

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 22:30

I just wish some would actually start to think about issues raised. Considering we are partaking in a creative hobby, it is amazing just how uncreative some are and how difficult t is to get some to realise some things have to change(just think carefully about the issues referred to in the letters page about mobility scooters).Maybe someone will be a able to start a sensible discussion on practical layout height at exhibitions.


I'd imagine that more than just some already think about the issues raised concerning the hobby in editorials and in threads on this forum. I'm not sure how it would be possible, without some research with individuals, to tell that people aren't thinking about them.

Creativity, in terms of modelling, would be a different issue. There is a perception that there is a declining number of modellers assembling kits and scratch building but with RTR in ascendancy as an alternative. However, I'm sure many realise things are changing such as the improvement in quality of RTR and new alternative modelling techniques and materials.

It's probably not a good idea to raise the issue of layout height again after the mention in a recent RM issue thread. However, I note a photo of small children enjoying a scene on the Pendon layout that they look
up to see the train higher than their heads without any apparent problem.

G

Edited by grahame, 11 August 2017 - 22:33 .

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#5 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 16:14

Sometimes it is worth while looking at other, similar hobbies.

From what I have noticed military modelling seems to still be very popular, and wargaming seems to have gained more support, judging by the large number of laser cut kits now available, and increasing. I think people are prepared to build, adapt and scatchbuild, and don't think that is as big a problem as some think with model railways. If there is a drift towards mainly r2r and r2p, then we are moving away from model railways and more into just trainsets. I don't want to see that, but am worried it might be going that way.

Some will blame computers and computer games, but there has actually been a big return to real wargaming models, judging by what one of my own sons has been saying, and he is also well into computer games as well. I am personally not interested in wargaming, but have found some of the models very useful for the various scales and gauges I model in.

 

It really needs analysing, looking at all the data, and then maybe some theories can be debunked and some practices actually changed. Just because some are so stuck in their ways, does not mean some subjects should not be discussed, and RM has opened that door slightly ajar.

 

One thing I do know is that it is very difficult to prove a negative(reduced interest in the hobby), but if you change something and it results is more people taking up the hobby, then you can find out why, simply by asking those taking up the hobby. The reasons might actually shock some, but until it happens I can not be sure what would actually get more into the hobby.



#6 davidw

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 18:29

Can anyone tell me what coaches are re worked in this months publication?

#7 Black 5 Bear

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 19:23

The coach article relates to revitalising OO Gauge Graham Farish coaching stock.
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#8 rob D2

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:41

I'm not sure I want to hear about other things impacting modelling TBH. I'll keep my head in the sand I think.

Modelling is an escape from the rather , and increasingly, dodgy modern world.
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#9 Nearholmer

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 15:37

Ah, but the very good editorial is a call to "crack on" in spite of practical limitations imposed by "life".

It is another excellent edition.

K
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#10 davidw

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 17:50

The coach article relates to revitalising OO Gauge Graham Farish coaching stock.

Thanks

#11 Sarahagain

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 14:02

Thanks

 

That is the Grafar "Suburban" non-corridor variant.... ;)



#12 Poggy1165

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:03

Railway modelling survived the late 40s and early 50s, when things were about as dire as they could be, so the hobby can probably survive anything short of a devastating war - which God forbid.

 

The latter retirement thing is certainly an issue for clubs and preservation societies. I suspect that - in the absence of any radical change to the world of work - people will increasingly be utterly burned out by the time they get to retire, and, to use a Lancashire phrase, they will not want to be mithered with anything much beyond watching the TV. Naturally, there will always be the odd guy still playing tennis with the kids at age 83, but such paragons are always in the minority.


Edited by Poggy1165, 27 August 2017 - 09:04 .


#13 Legend

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:43

Sometimes it is worth while looking at other, similar hobbies.
From what I have noticed military modelling seems to still be very popular, and wargaming seems to have gained more support, judging by the large number of laser cut kits now available, and increasing. I think people are prepared to build, adapt and scatchbuild, and don't think that is as big a problem as some think with model railways. If there is a drift towards mainly r2r and r2p, then we are moving away from model railways and more into just trainsets. I don't want to see that, but am worried it might be going that way.
Some will blame computers and computer games, but there has actually been a big return to real wargaming models, judging by what one of my own sons has been saying, and he is also well into computer games as well. I am personally not interested in wargaming, but have found some of the models very useful for the various scales and gauges I model in.
 
It really needs analysing, looking at all the data, and then maybe some theories can be debunked and some practices actually changed. Just because some are so stuck in their ways, does not mean some subjects should not be discussed, and RM has opened that door slightly ajar.
 
One thing I do know is that it is very difficult to prove a negative(reduced interest in the hobby), but if you change something and it results is more people taking up the hobby, then you can find out why, simply by asking those taking up the hobby. The reasons might actually shock some, but until it happens I can not be sure what would actually get more into the hobby.


Despite its undeserved "old" image , I think Railway Modeller is actually the most progressive of the 4 main model rail magazines. It's also not afraid to tackle some of the issues in the hobby both in Steves editorial but also in the content of the magazine. Well done them, always a good read and there is a lot more in it than any of the other mags.

With regards popularity of gaming and military modelling , one of the key factors is you can dabble in it for relatively little cost and build up from there. On the other hand ,the entry level for Model Railways, and I don't mean a circle of track with a point, but a reasonable model railway, is very large . I have recently returned to modelling civil aircraft and you can pick up a kit easily for £12-£15. Ok you need the paints and decals to complete but it's still relatively low cost. Getting back to Steves editorial , I suppose people in rented accommodation or having limited income can partake in this more easily than embarking on a model railway
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#14 Nearholmer

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 21:31

Given how good modern N and 009/H0e r-t-r items are, I think that space/portability aren't really issues; one can build a good, interesting, workable layout that folds up to, say, 600x300x300mm.

Cost might be the bigger challenge for many younger people.

K
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#15 locomad

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 12:38

Cost might be the bigger challenge for many younger people.
K


What some people fail to realise is there is a large and growing number of 20-40 and even 50 year old modellers who are enjoying good incomes with a lot of disposable income still living at home with there parents and quite a few live in large houses.

Often referred to as "Returners" they have gone often gone to college, unable to get a good job after returned home, found employment stayed with one or both parent, moved slowly up career path, steady income, money spent on decent cars etc.

I would say I personally know more of these modellers who have built big layouts in sheds, attics, garages, spare rooms then those who have retired who often are thinking of downsizing and selling up there collections.

Often they tend to learn more towards "Modern image" as age of Steam was to them something seen in b&w films and books, but they have more disposable income, more spare time, and tend to be more dynamic.

#16 Nearholmer

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 14:16

Locomad

Certainly a group I'd not thought of, but I can't imagine that they are typical of most of the population, many of whom are shoving a heavy mortgage or rent uphill.

K

Edited by Nearholmer, 28 August 2017 - 16:14 .

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#17 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 15:45

Despite its undeserved "old" image , I think Railway Modeller is actually the most progressive of the 4 main model rail magazines. It's also not afraid to tackle some of the issues in the hobby both in Steves editorial but also in the content of the magazine. Well done them, always a good read and there is a lot more in it than any of the other mags.

With regards popularity of gaming and military modelling , one of the key factors is you can dabble in it for relatively little cost and build up from there. On the other hand ,the entry level for Model Railways, and I don't mean a circle of track with a point, but a reasonable model railway, is very large . I have recently returned to modelling civil aircraft and you can pick up a kit easily for £12-£15. Ok you need the paints and decals to complete but it's still relatively low cost. Getting back to Steves editorial , I suppose people in rented accommodation or having limited income can partake in this more easily than embarking on a model railway

Some might be put put off model railway because they think it needsl lots of space and costs a lot, but along with many others I build micro sized layouts(eg boxfiles), and they can start small, and grow.  Wargamers might be able to start small, but would soon need a large collection of figures. Many would be computer gamers as well, and this does not seem to have dented interest in real models.

I have seen some of the latest computer based railway software, and it is impressive. I suggested to one editor that maybe the model railway magazines might try to bring it into the magazine, but it was not felt appropriate. Pity, because those nto computer simulation, might move into real modelling in the future, as has happened with wargaming.


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 28 August 2017 - 15:49 .


#18 locomad

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 18:24

Locomad
Certainly a group I'd not thought of, but I can't imagine that they are typical of most of the population, many of whom are shoving a heavy mortgage or rent uphill.
K


It's quite a high proportion of the under 40's still living at home with mum & dad, high or almost impossible affordable housing for sale, sky high rents, lack of suitable housing has forced them to do this. Nearly always they stay single they get jobs but never enough to buy a house as a result they have large disposable incomes.

Then we have the later "returners" break up of marriage, loss of job, even care for elderly parents.

As a member of several railway type clubs, a membership in his 30's or 40's with a mortgage and young children is very rare, most members are retired or this other category under 40, single, living with parents.

Most have money to spend, the older retired are more careful, most younger members under 40 do spend, some say lack of space is the biggest restriction, yet still building up collections, others live with often just one parent nearly always mother and have or are building large layouts in there house.

#19 Nearholmer

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 21:08

The percentage living with parents falls steadily to early 30s, then seems to stabilise at c8%, which is probably double or treble what I would have guessed, but, again to my surprise, is not greatly different from the position 20 years ago.

Full stats here https://www.ons.gov....lts19962016.xls

So, you could well be right that there is more purchasing-power in this group than is often thought.

As for guys with young families not forming a large % of active MR club membership, which is my observation also: no great surprise there. It's a hugely busy time of life, especially given that in very many couples both work full, or near-full, time, and that dads probably play a greater direct part in the upbringing of their children than used to be the case.

The cash and time starved young dads who are into model railways are probably building small layouts slowly, their eyes propped open with matchsticks!

Kevin

Edited by Nearholmer, 28 August 2017 - 21:09 .

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#20 locomad

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 21:49

The percentage living with parents falls steadily to early 30s, then seems to stabilise at c8%, which is probably double or treble what I would have guessed, but, again to my surprise, is not greatly different from the position 20 years ago.
Full stats here https://www.ons.gov....lts19962016.xls
So, you could well be right that there is more purchasing-power in this group than is often thought.
As for guys with young families not forming a large % of active MR club membership, which is my observation also: no great surprise there. It's a hugely busy time of life, especially given that in very many couples both work full, or near-full, time, and that dads probably play a greater direct part in the upbringing of their children than used to be the case.
The cash and time starved young dads who are into model railways are probably building small layouts slowly, their eyes propped open with matchsticks!
Kevin


Link don't seem to work, but I suspect could be higher than that, almost every person I know at my age ~60, has if they had children, an returner living with them, at least one adult child. Strange it might seem but single ladies end up with their sons, while the daughters end up on there own with there own children, I suspect benefits for single mothers has an effect on this but not going into that.

Sons tend to stay with there mothers for quite a long time often becoming careers, it these modellers I tend to know quite well, they have time and cash to join model and other railway clubs, it's them who are doing all the buying. Been of the internet generation is eBay, online hattons etc, they also go on this site and others Facebook been popular. I notice they don't really follow established model magazines, nor do they really have interest in railway books, they do there research online.

I could compare my own children to me 25-30 years ago, then I had a young family, never went out and as they grew built a large semi portable layout from them to use, I don't see my children now as they themselves are have young children, they are at least 5-10 years "behind" on the housing ladder, houses are a lot smaller, they more stressed out, work harder travel further, anyhow they can bring my grandchildren round and they can play on mine.

But it's not all doom & gloom, recently there's a trend in "grandads" Hornby dublo 3 rail, either left, found in attic, purchased cheap on eBay etc, easy to put down on carpet, table, generally more robust, little kids playing with trains again

#21 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 22:33

With machines taking over virtually every type of job(even driving), the future might actually result in more free time, and some new(but actually tested) ideas on the way we provide an income for everyone.  I don't think the ay we buy/sell houses can continue, as it esomething to feed it, and in most areas there isn't anything cheap enough to bring new buyers in. Personally I think the system does need a shake up, and the result should be good for hobbies and leasure activities.



#22 rob D2

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 20:19

Crickey, I thought I was a sad case leaving home at 28 !







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