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Bachmann J72





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#1 lukeknights4472

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 13:16

I've seen some CAD drawings of the new Bachmann J72, and it shows lamps in the express passenger postion, are these going to be seperate details or part of the body moudling (there may already be a post disscussing this loco, but i couldnt find it)

 





#2 teaky

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 14:39

I've seen some CAD drawings of the new Bachmann J72, and it shows lamps in the express passenger postion, are these going to be seperate details or part of the body moudling (there may already be a post disscussing this loco, but i couldnt find it)

The same position is used for station pilots.  I don't imagine for a moment that Bachmann will make the model with fixed lamps anyway.


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#3 lukeknights4472

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 18:02

The same position is used for station pilots.  I don't imagine for a moment that Bachmann will make the model with fixed lamps anyway.

 

thinking about it again, Bachmann would get a lot of negative feedback if they fixed the lamps in one position, and I didn't know that they used that headcode for station pilots.



#4 The Johnster

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 21:06

Station, and yard, pilots wore the shunting headlamps correct for locos carrying out shunting moves within station limits, which were one white and one red lamp on each buffer beam on the outside brackets (I think the red was to the left as you looked at it but am happy to be corrected on this point), the only situation where you would have 4 lamps up apart from a royal train, albeit actually 2 on each end.  So, on a CAD drawing this would be shown as looking like an express passenger headcode.  Some private industrial operators still use this code on their locos.

 

I would hope that Baccy do not actually model it like this unless the lamps are removable, as it would mean having to cut them off if you wanted to use your J72 for anything other than pilot work.  I agree that they are particularly associated with station pilot work at York, Darlington, and Newcastle, but were used on trip freight and ecs as well, plus the trips on the Derwent Valley Light.  If they are going to introduce removable lamps with this loco, then kudos to them!


Edited by The Johnster, 13 August 2017 - 21:08 .

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#5 lukeknights4472

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 21:36

Station, and yard, pilots wore the shunting headlamps correct for locos carrying out shunting moves within station limits, which were one white and one red lamp on each buffer beam on the outside brackets (I think the red was to the left as you looked at it but am happy to be corrected on this point), the only situation where you would have 4 lamps up apart from a royal train, albeit actually 2 on each end.  So, on a CAD drawing this would be shown as looking like an express passenger headcode.  Some private industrial operators still use this code on their locos.

 

I would hope that Baccy do not actually model it like this unless the lamps are removable, as it would mean having to cut them off if you wanted to use your J72 for anything other than pilot work.  I agree that they are particularly associated with station pilot work at York, Darlington, and Newcastle, but were used on trip freight and ecs as well, plus the trips on the Derwent Valley Light.  If they are going to introduce removable lamps with this loco, then kudos to them!

 

I hope they are removable.



#6 Flying Pig

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 22:28

The CAD renders appear in the Bachmann press day thread. Note that the NER and early BR models carry different codes at the front and none has lamps at the rear, which a pilot should. I wonder if the lamps are just for illustration and won't appear on the final models, thus cleverly stymying one potential source of negative feedback.

Whatever, it will be very nice to see the prettiest model around back in prodution.

post-1-0-04778300-1499329520.jpg
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#7 MikeParkin65

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:12

The CAD renders appear in the Bachmann press day thread. Note that the NER and early BR models carry different codes at the front and none has lamps at the rear, which a pilot should. I wonder if the lamps are just for illustration and won't appear on the final models, thus cleverly stymying one potential source of negative feedback.
Whatever, it will be very nice to see the prettiest model around back in prodution. post-1-0-04778300-1499329520.jpg


Or whether Bachmann are planning something clever like working moveable lamps similar to the Mk11s?

#8 The Johnster

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:57

Removable lamps would be a great idea, and a selling point for the manufacturer as well.  Close inspection of the CADs shows what looks like an express code on the LNER model and class C, suitable for ecs, parcels, and express freight composed entirely of vacuum braked XP rated vehicles on the others, unless the NER one is carrying a single lamp on the centre bracket (light engine? in which case it should have a tail lamp), on the front buffer beam only, neither particularly likely work for J72s except the ecs.  It would not be a good thing if they are moulded or permanently attached, though, a stunt only previously attempted AFAIK on the Lima 4575's bunker, and not one of that model's stronger points...


Edited by The Johnster, 14 August 2017 - 10:59 .


#9 lukeknights4472

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:07

Or whether Bachmann are planning something clever like working moveable lamps similar to the Mk11s?

 

mk11s? I haven't heard of them?


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#10 Flying Pig

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 18:52

Or whether Bachmann are planning something clever like working moveable lamps similar to the Mk11s?


The Mk2F provides a carriage end to plug the lamp into and hide the gubbins behind. A much harder design task on the open running plate of a J72, but non-working moveable lamps are certainly feasible (Modelu already list a BR(E) loco lamp).

#11 The Johnster

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 20:35

To make removable working lamps for steam locos, the only system I could possibly imagine is some sort of fibre optic that ran up the bracket and engaged in some way so as to be able to show an illumination in the lens.  This might be possible but whether it could be mass produced with any chance of making money out of it and sold at a sensible price could well be another matter!  Especially as working lamps on locomotives have to be ridiculously overbright so as to be visible in ambient daylight in order to be viable selling points!

 

This is a pity, as it is one of the things that makes 'night' operation of steam age layouts beyond the reach of most modellers unless you can live with the loco (and tail, and brake van tail and side) lamps being out.



#12 R Marshall

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 20:39

Sad to say, the CAD images appear to show the lamp handles running from side to side (incorrect), rather than fore and aft.

 

The detail variations (eg with/without rear handrail; buffer types; vacuum ejector; sandbox arrangements; etc) are such that Bachmann ought to base each model on photographic evidence.

 

Hopefully someone can feed this back to Bachmann?



#13 Flying Pig

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 21:14

To make removable working lamps for steam locos, the only system I could possibly imagine is some sort of fibre optic that ran up the bracket and engaged in some way so as to be able to show an illumination in the lens.

I think technology will probably provide eventually, and we'll end up with some sort of independent rechargeable micro-lamp which gives a dim flickery illumination (useful for signals too) and ideally extinguishes itself during daylight hours, except when fog or falling snow is present in the railway room. Until then a scale non-working item is preferable to something too large or too bright.
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#14 ArthurK

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 21:52

Or whether Bachmann are planning something clever like working moveable lamps similar to the Mk11s?


Some of the fittings seem to have been chosen at random, especially the buffers. Taper on late BR! Some appear to lack guard irons at the rear and where are the sandboxes on the late BR version? Riveted smokebox in NER days!!!

Must do better!

ArthurK
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#15 JaymzHatstand

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 23:59

I think a lot of the detail differences shown in the CAD we've seen thus far is more of an amalgamation of differences to show what bits and bobs will be tooled, as they'll all be separately fired to the basic shell.

Hopefully this is the case, because a nice new J72 is certainly something to look forward to! I do wonder if the locos originally announced when it was just a chassis upgrade are the same that are forthcoming with the new tool.

Methinks I might enquire of the Barwell Brigade!

I'll repost any findings!

Cheers

J
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#16 JeremyC

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:59

Station, and yard, pilots wore the shunting headlamps correct for locos carrying out shunting moves within station limits, which were one white and one red lamp on each buffer beam on the outside brackets (I think the red was to the left as you looked at it but am happy to be corrected on this point)......

Rule 123 states: "Engines employed exclusively in shunting at stations and yards must, after sunset or during dog or falling snow, carry one red and one white light, both at the front and rear, one over each buffer."
There is no instruction in the rule book about which way round the lights are placed.
Source BR Rule Book 1950

Edited by JeremyC, 15 August 2017 - 08:11 .

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#17 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:43

To make removable working lamps for steam locos, the only system I could possibly imagine is some sort of fibre optic that ran up the bracket and engaged in some way so as to be able to show an illumination in the lens.  This might be possible but whether it could be mass produced with any chance of making money out of it and sold at a sensible price could well be another matter! 

Has to be simple to produce and assemble to be cheap. A piece of transparent plastic with an LED under the light positions, holes through the footplate, smokebox and bunker ends to the illuminated transparent plastic, and plug in 'alternates' to suit the locations. Either lamp irons in opaque black plastic which prevent any light escape, or lamps moulded in transparent material, over painted except the lens. Fortunately the feeble light of an oil lamp won't demand much in output from the light source or transmission efficiency.



#18 The Johnster

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:28

I think technology will probably provide eventually, and we'll end up with some sort of independent rechargeable micro-lamp which gives a dim flickery illumination (useful for signals too) and ideally extinguishes itself during daylight hours, except when fog or falling snow is present in the railway room. Until then a scale non-working item is preferable to something too large or too bright.

 

I agree, by which I mean that I agree with the last sentence.  A viable on board power source for an independent working scale 4mm steam era lamp is unlikely this side of the development of dilithium crystals and warp drive, and I suspect that if it is ever managed it will be by means of chemical or bio- luminescence, the glowing cells from a firefly or some marine animal cloned into the body of the lamp perhaps.

 

Sorry, dear, can't do the washing up, got to feed my lamps...


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#19 R Marshall

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 17:12

I think a lot of the detail differences shown in the CAD we've seen thus far is more of an amalgamation of differences to show what bits and bobs will be tooled, as they'll all be separately fired to the basic shell.

Hopefully this is the case, because a nice new J72 is certainly something to look forward to! I do wonder if the locos originally announced when it was just a chassis upgrade are the same that are forthcoming with the new tool.

Methinks I might enquire of the Barwell Brigade!

I'll repost any findings!

Cheers

J

J,

 

Let them know I'm happy to help - I've lots of pictures of the class in BR days and earlier - would love them to get the detail right 1st time.

 

Regards, Roy



#20 Andy Y

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 17:58

Removable lamps would be a great idea, and a selling point for the manufacturer as well.  Close inspection of the CADs shows what looks like an express code on the LNER model and class C, suitable for ecs, parcels, and express freight composed entirely of vacuum braked XP rated vehicles on the others, unless the NER one is carrying a single lamp on the centre bracket (light engine? in which case it should have a tail lamp), on the front buffer beam only, neither particularly likely work for J72s except the ecs.  It would not be a good thing if they are moulded or permanently attached, though, a stunt only previously attempted AFAIK on the Lima 4575's bunker, and not one of that model's stronger points...

 

 

Please note the lamps shown in the CAD images are non-working and will be in the accessory bag with the locomotive. They can, therefore, be placed in position by the user to suit the particular traffic requirements they require.

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe Plc


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#21 No Decorum

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:04

 

I’m glad to read that. Manufacturers are advancing at quite a pace and I live in dread of one of them working out how to provide working moveable lamps. (Live chassis with a contact on the bottom of the lamp and a wire to the lamp iron making an internal contact with the lamp perhaps?) Heck, it will make all my existing steamers obsolete at a stroke. Internal lighting in coaches is bad enough! :(

 

In spite of what I’ve just said, if it is ever done, I know I would be suckered in!



#22 The Johnster

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 13:56

Removable posable lamps included with loco is an excellent idea, hopefully a full set of at least 2 heads and a tail, but a shame if it puts Modelu out of business!  One hopes that they and their brackets will be available to retrofit to earlier locos as well, and that the other rtr manufacturers will up their game in this respect, but not if that means that, say, Hornby lamp would be incompatible with a Dapol bracket, or a Heljan with a Bachmann.  We have yet to achieve a decent standard of standardisation with tension lock couplers...



#23 Edwardian

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 14:00

Good news.

 

And will this be the first RTR model of a NE locomotive in its pre-grouping guise?  Bachmann are to be commended for that.

 

I have been toying with the idea of a micro based on a NE goods branch, and I think this announcement means that I will now do something about that.  I'll definitely go for a pre-Grouping version.

 

Well done Blue Box!


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#24 Skinnylinny

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 14:27

Good news.

 

And will this be the first RTR model of a NE locomotive in its pre-grouping guise?  Bachmann are to be commended for that.

 

I have been toying with the idea of a micro based on a NE goods branch, and I think this announcement means that I will now do something about that.  I'll definitely go for a pre-Grouping version.

 

Well done Blue Box!

I was thinking that Mainline got there a little while ago... with a J72! (Joem in North Eastern livery). Then realised that the Joem nameplates were a preservation addition. Darn...


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#25 Edwardian

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 14:35

I was thinking that Mainline got there a little while ago... with a J72! (Joem in North Eastern livery). Then realised that the Joem nameplates were a preservation addition. Darn...

 

Yes, I went through the very same thought process!


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