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Layout Help Please

Ed Winterbury

By Ed Winterbury,
in Layout & Track Design

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Chimer

Chimer

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This may get me into trouble, but ..... 17' (my guess) x 13' L shape, 2' boards, terminus to fiddle yard, "small branch with very little happening doesn't appeal" - that shouts "Minories" to me.

 

There are loads of threads related to this "classic" design for a busy double-track inner suburban terminus, but this one

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78492-minories-holborn-viaduct/page-1

 

probably gets to the heart of it as well as any.

 

But for the sake of the OP's sanity, can I please suggest we don't get into the esoterica of what exactly is and isn't a true Minories design in this thread?  Its all been said before .....

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kevinklein

kevinklein

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Your room picture seems to imply that you are living in a relatively small flat... are you sure that you can commit so much of the kitchen/dining room to a large layout? What happens when you move?... i would suggest, that you take one of the 6x4 boards, and use it as a test bench, experiment a bit with something small, and get a feel for how even a small layout can take a LOT of time... start something small, get a feel for the time investment, and then dream about the "Big layout"... sorry, if this seems negative.

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Ed Winterbury

Ed Winterbury

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The flat is a two-bed holiday home in a small city centre. I live in even smaller quarters in London normally and this two-bed is the biggest it can be at a reasonable price and easy to get to on the train from London. The table is 163 cm x 60cm but will need space for three folding chairs. 

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dhjgreen

dhjgreen

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Thanks for your help so far, and please keep it coming! Sorry for pestering you!

This was recommended earlier, click on the link

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78492-minories-holborn-viaduct/?p=1221394

Note the top picture is 2 alternatives, not one layout.

Edited by dhjgreen
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The Johnster

The Johnster

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I don't think anyone has ever bettered Cyril Freezer's 'Minories' for an intense urban operation in a cramped space, with the opportunity for bigger locos for overnight parcels and mails operation (perhaps there's a sorting office nearby), but it would never do for me personally; where's the freight?

 

Somewhere else, that's where, and the idea occurs of Minories with a high level freight yard behind it.  Not sure if that would be of any use to Ed, as it would increase the layout's width and eat into his kitchen a bit more, but with the possible addition of a long cutting approaching the terminus there may be space for more on both levels (loco servicing road in the cutting, private sidings high level), as much operation as anyone would want.

Edited by The Johnster
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Pacific231G

Pacific231G

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I don't think anyone has ever bettered Cyril Freezer's 'Minories' for an intense urban operation in a cramped space, with the opportunity for bigger locos for overnight parcels and mails operation (perhaps there's a sorting office nearby), but it would never do for me personally; where's the freight?

 

Somewhere else, that's where, and the idea occurs of Minories with a high level freight yard behind it.  Not sure if that would be of any use to Ed, as it would increase the layout's width and eat into his kitchen a bit more, but with the possible addition of a long cutting approaching the terminus there may be space for more on both levels (loco servicing road in the cutting, private sidings high level), as much operation as anyone would want.

Geoff Ashdown did something like this in a length of just three metres by 50cms (including a cassette based fiddle yard) with his superb EM gauge Tower Pier;

 

post-6882-0-81166600-1505039735_thumb.jpg

 

More on this layout in posts #44 & #48 in the Minories Holborn Viaduct thread and eight excellent photographs by Ian (Kings Cross Suburban ) here,  

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/30204-expoem-bracknell-14-15-may-2011/page-5&do=findComment&comment=401955.

 

Rather than an actual goods depot - wihch would have required more space- Geoff Ashdown came up with the effectivel idea of the goods sidings, at a slightly higher level than the passenger station behind, representing "Tower Hill Yard" the final sorting sidings before a goods line into a very cramped St. Katherine's Dock (actually two hidden sidings under the road wihch hinges up for access) and have their own two roads in the fiddle yard so are completely separate from the passenger operation.

 

Something similar was done by Roy Emery with Fenchurch Cuttingsin 00

post-6882-0-10592800-1505038657_thumb.jpg

though here the high level section behind the three platform passenger terminus was an MPD. Again it was operated effectively as two separate layouts. This was a much larger layout than Tower Pier at 14ft x 2ft including the fiddle yard.

 

Though I'm personally not keen on separating the layout into two this way it does enable different levels to be used and, if you don't mind the fiction that the goods junction is a box or two down the line, can be effective in representing a busy urban environment. Tower Pier in particular seems to really capture the feel of what the Widened Lines must have been like in grubby steam days. 

 

I agree about Minories not being quite enough. I've operated a couple of fairly pure versions of Minories and did find that I craved the variety that a goods yard would have added to it. 

 

 

 

.

.

Edited by Pacific231G
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ejstubbs

ejstubbs

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Can I sound a small note of caution about siting a model railway in a room in which cooking also takes place? Heat from hobs, ovens, toasters and the like; steam from pans on hobs, kettles and ovens (including microwave ovens); splashes from sinks and spitting fat/oil are all potentially detrimental to models, scenery and baseboards.  I would be inclined to keep the layout as far away as possible from the immediate sources of such contamination/damage, and also to ensure that the room is particularly well ventilated so as to reduce the risk of cooking fumes and steam permeating the space.

Edited by ejstubbs
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Pacific231G

Pacific231G

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The goods yard Minories sounds good.

You'll find plans for an eight foot version of both the original goods yard plan and the later version with a kickback goods yard here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78492-minories-holborn-viaduct/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1223211

You can obviously lengthen the platforms to take longer trains if you have the space.

The original version requires the use of platform three as a goods reception siding which I don't think is very prototypical and a lot of see-sawing to shunt the goods shed. The plan was used as the basis for a BRM project layout called Cannon's Cross which was a Southern Region 3rd rail themed terminus. I saw it in operation at Alexandra Palace a few years ago and shunting the goods yard did seem a bit convoluted but not in a problerm solving way.

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Siberian Snooper

Siberian Snooper

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Looks good, but how to wire it? I just want one power 'entry point' onto the track.

To use only one feed it will need to be at the toe end of all the turnouts, which will serverly limit what you can have track plan wise. Don't be fooled into thinking that DCC is just two wires.

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ejstubbs

ejstubbs

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The original version requires the use of platform three as a goods reception siding which I don't think is very prototypical and a lot of see-sawing to shunt the goods shed. The plan was used as the basis for a BRM project layout called Cannon's Cross which was a Southern Region 3rd rail themed terminus.

 

The original intention might have been for it to be 3rd rail themed but most of the photos of it in BRM had steam in shot - alongside blue and grey EMUs - and they added a turntable to it later!

 

The awkward layout was compounded by the fact that the goods shed and yard were parallel to platform three, but only accessible via a headshunt which kicked back off the platform three road.  I always thought that arrangement looked pretty inconvenient.  I presume the idea was to use a loco from the stabling point to draw the goods wagons back in to the headshunt, but even that would have required a bit of to-ing and fro-ing to get the loco from one side of the layout to the other.

 

The project featured in the January to April 2010 editions of BRM.  There was a later article, in the December edition, which covered the construction of the turntable, and the addition of a short scenic section featuring a canal.

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Pete the Elaner

Pete the Elaner

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To use only one feed it will need to be at the toe end of all the turnouts, which will serverly limit what you can have track plan wise. Don't be fooled into thinking that DCC is just two wires.

I agree with that. Even if you could get power to everywhere with just 2 wires, you will be relying on the rail to conduct the electricity (nickel silver is a poor conductor compared to copper) but more importantly, you will also be relying on several rail joints to conduct. Even with NS, resistance will build in time across these joints & if you paint/ballast your track, this makes the problem much worse.

When I was much younger (up to around 15), my layouts had just 1 feed per section. After a few years, running became poor around the opposite side to the power feed.

It is not that difficult to isolate & re-feed after every point. This is good practice for DC or DCC wiring.

 

I know it can be difficult to be patient, especially with a 1st layout, because the first running session is so rewarding.

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RJS1977

RJS1977

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Might I make a suggestion?  Kitchens are notorious for never having enough worktop space, so it might be an idea to mount shelving as worktops above the layout so as to discourage the putting of utensils, crockery, and other kitchen paraphenalia on your delicate railway.  Good intentions rarely survive a hot plate that you have to put down immediately!

 

I'd go one step further and suggest (if possible) partitioning the 'railway' part of the room off to prevent moisture from cooking affecting the layout.

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