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Hessle Haven





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#51 Removed a/c_jonte

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 21:44

Anyone who knew this place, right up until the closure of Richard Dunstons shipyard, might remember that there was another bridge here, one which carried the road into the shipyard over the Haven itself. This bridge will be a feature of the next section of the railway to be built but the abutment is already there. It took quite a bit of peering at old photographs to determine that the wall between the two piers of the bridge was actually curved and was wood.

Now someone's going to produce a detailed photo, taken at exactly the right period, to prove "Oh no it wasn't".

Just for the record, all of the brickwork on here as on the wing walls, is hand made, using a sciber on soft card. The brickwork is then painted with various water colours, using a stippling pad before being sealed with a very dilute coat of matt black enamel diluted in white spirit.

The coping stones are all individually made from various thicknesses of plasticard and then painted with Humbrol stone colour.

Cheers

Mike



Hi Mike

This is all beautifully modelled; you must have been an accomplished modeller before you gave it up 30 or so years ago.

I simply have to say, Mike, that this is probably the most realistic method of producing brick work that I've ever seen - Scalescene's quality but with the bonus of embossed sheeting.

I'd dearly love to have a go, and therefore, hope you don't mind me asking:

a) what particular colours did you use e.g. burnt umber, sienna etc. ?

B) what implement did you use for a scriber - if, indeed, this is a purpose built tool, what make is it and from where can it be purchased ?

c) what type of card did you use?

d) what did you use as a stippler?

Sorry for the distraction, but this is a modelling 'opportunity' NOT to be missed.

Best wishes,

Jonte

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#52 micknich2003

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 23:10

Jonte, Mike was a magnificent modeller 45 years ago, and I well remember seeing examples of his work. He was, and still is a master of "Plasticard", one of his finest examples that I recall was an LMS "Patriot" built to drawings published in a 1968 "Railway Modeller". Since returning to modelling, he has of course further improved his skills.
Mike and I lost touch for well over 30 years. I was very surprised when he eventually again made contact, and more so when he told me about his plans for "Hessle Haven". By pure chance, I have no end of research material on the place, and also had been signalman there for a couple of years. Indeed, I had the final say in the real Hessle Haven, I worked the last shift, February 1983. Best Wishes, Mick.
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#53 mikemeg

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 09:53

Hi Mike

This is all beautifully modelled; you must have been an accomplished modeller before you gave it up 30 or so years ago.

I simply have to say, Mike, that this is probably the most realistic method of producing brick work that I've ever seen - Scalescene's quality but with the bonus of embossed sheeting.

I'd dearly love to have a go, and therefore, hope you don't mind me asking:

a) what particular colours did you use e.g. burnt umber, sienna etc. ?

B) what implement did you use for a scriber - if, indeed, this is a purpose built tool, what make is it and from where can it be purchased ?

c) what type of card did you use?

d) what did you use as a stippler?

Sorry for the distraction, but this is a modelling 'opportunity' NOT to be missed.

Best wishes,

Jonte


Firstly thanks to my old mate Mick Nicholson for his posting above. I've said a few times but will say again, without Mick's archive of plans, photographs, etc. none of this could have been done. I don't know what happened to that Patriot but many of the techniques which were first practised on that model I still use, though I've learnt to build in brass and nickel silver, since then.

So, Jonte, the brickwork. Firstly I should say that I made my own for four reasons :-

1. On the model of Hessle Haven I wanted to concentrate on the railway and its structures, rather than the setting of the railway. So this model is very much about what lies between, or over, the railway fences. I'm not decrying any of the beautifully scenic model railways on here or anywhere else but that is the underlying 'ethic' of this model; it is a model of a railway.

2. The NER used a form of English Garden Wall Bond which had every fourth course as a bonding course i.e. a course of half bricks as they were layed end on.

3. That variety of colours of well worn and well weathered brick is something I have never seen on commercially available products, though it probably does exist.

4. I wanted the relief of the brickwork to show.

The card I used was actually old Yorkshire Tea boxes cut up into roughly 6" by 4" pieces. This is about my limit for a single piece and even then a card of this size has 3,000 + bricks on it. Clearly I use the uncoloured/unprinted side. Since then I have found other cards which are of similar thickness and which will take a scribed line without tearing the surface. In general, the thinner the card the better it scribes.

The card was then marked out in pencil with the horizontal and vertical courses. This took around half an hour for a 6" by 4" card. The scriber is one half of a compass (the drawing variety not the navigational one) with the point slightly blunted. The blunting is only very slight but this results in a groove rather than a scratch on the card surface.

Then it's just a very tedious job of using a good steel rule and scribing the horizontal mortar courses, which is relatively easy. The vertical courses are much more trying as it is very easy to make a mistake. I could scribe a 6" x 4" card in around three hours and two of those would do the structure shown in the earlier photograph.

I don't actually paint the scribed card, I make a paper tampon; much as printers used to use. This is a piece of clean kitchen roll tightly rolled up into a ball and then placed inside another piece of the same material. I dip this in paint, use it on a scrap piece of card to get rid of most of the paint and then apply it to the workpiece. The result is that the paint (watercolour gouache) does not get into the mortar courses. This process is applied with usually two or three colours :-

Firstly a rather bright orange, toned down slightly with a little burnt sienna. Even so this is the colour of new bricks.

Secondly a burnt sienna which is applied over the orange but which varies in its intensity of colour simply as it goes onto the card. This starts the process of adding the variety of hues and colours.

The third part of the process is to pick out individual bricks in white (saltpetre) and then blacks or very dark browns. It is surprising how few need to be picked out to give that realistic look.

When the whole panel is coloured 'to taste', still with the mortar courses largely card coloured, then I wash the whole lot with a very diluted mix of weathered black enamel mixed with white spirit. The white spirit actually cracks the water colour paint, just as real bricks acquire a cracked and weathered surface. More importantly this seals the watercolours and protects against any moisture.

On the bridges, especially where years of smoke and soot would accumulate, then I apply a wash of black watercolour which I paint on at the top of the piece and just allow to run down. A spot of varnish will them simulate water on the brickwork.

The card is cut for use with a craft knife (Stanley) with a new blade and the edges are always cut at 45 degrees so that they hide when joined.

There you go, that's how I do it.

You might think that this is a very long winded process and if I were making a long retaining wall or a cutting wall then I would opt for something much quicker. But where there are relatively few structures to build, then this does produce a result which gets as close as possible to real bricks.

The photos, below, show the basic card I used - usual disclaimers on this Company - and a piece which has been scribed and then coloured with the orange and burnt sienna. Having to repixilate this photo might lose some of the detail but you can at least see how the mortar courses have not been coloured.

And that colour of the bricks is just about right for structures which have stood for fifty or more years. This piece still has to be picked out with the whites, blacks, etc. and then washed down with diluted black enamel and sealed.

Cheers

Mike

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#54 buffalo

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 11:20

...
2. The NER used a form of Flemish Bond which had every fourth course as a bonding course i.e. a course of half bricks as they were layed end on...


Nice wall, but I think you will find that is 'English Garden Wall Bond'. English bond, and its variants, have separate rows of headers and stretchers. Flemish bond, and its variants, have headers and stretchers in the same row.

Nick

#55 mikemeg

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 11:31

Nice wall, but I think you will find that is 'English Garden Wall Bond'. English bond, and its variants, have separate rows of headers and stretchers. Flemish bond, and its variants, have headers and stretchers in the same row.

Nick


Nick,

Thanks for that. I'm no brick layer so don't know the correct names but I'll now modify the post above.

Cheers

Mike

#56 mikemeg

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 11:40

Mike, it's lovely to see a selection of NER locos :)


Snap :)


James,

There is a separate thread under Kitbuilding and Scratch Building about building the Q5/2 (apologies if you already know this) which is a test build of one of Arthur Kimber's loco kits soon to be available for sale. The Q5/1 is almost ready for sale.

Arthur has plans for a number of ex-NER prototypes and as long as he makes em, then I'll build em, though I do need the LNER 'staples' B1, D49, K3, J39, L1, V2, V3 etc. as well as the ubiquitous WD's.

I once worked out that in 1950 Hull had around forty different classes shedded across its four sheds. Add to that the ex-GC, ex-GN and even ex-GE locos, the ex-works locos from Doncaster on running in turns as well as the ex-LMS and its constituents' locos, which worked into or through the town and this was some place to see locomotives. Now, with only a handful of locomotive classes it is hard to believe that such variety could ever have existed.

Cheers

Mike

#57 Pennine MC

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 17:31

One of the very gratifying aspects of having started this project and this thread is the number of folks who knew this place and for whom the railway seems to have stirred and evoked so many memories.


I've commented on this on your thread on the old forumMike, but as a onetime inhabitant of the bridge at Dunstons I'll renew my appreciation now :)

Or an EE Type 3 pulling out of empty mineral yard with a load of empty 16 tonners.


Do you happen to have a date for that one Mike? The first wagon looks to be a wooden ex-PO 13 tonner

#58 Worsdell forever

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 17:56

Those bricks - Quali-tea...





Not bothering with a coat, just leaving. Posted Image


Cracking layout by the way. Posted Image

#59 micknich2003

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 17:58

The attached shows the NERly style of "Garden Wall" brick bonding, "Headers, three rows of stretchers and another row of Headers". Appropriately enough the picture is Hessle Haven signal box. Mick Nicholson.

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  • Bonding at  HESSLE HAVEN SB 1982.jpg

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#60 Removed a/c_jonte

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 18:46

Jonte, Mike was a magnificent modeller 45 years ago, and I well remember seeing examples of his work. He was, and still is a master of "Plasticard", one of his finest examples that I recall was an LMS "Patriot" built to drawings published in a 1968 "Railway Modeller". Since returning to modelling, he has of course further improved his skills.
Mike and I lost touch for well over 30 years. I was very surprised when he eventually again made contact, and more so when he told me about his plans for "Hessle Haven". By pure chance, I have no end of research material on the place, and also had been signalman there for a couple of years. Indeed, I had the final say in the real Hessle Haven, I worked the last shift, February 1983. Best Wishes, Mick.


Hi Mick

An accolade, indeed. Good to see that you've renewed your friendship with Mike after all these years too.

Best wishes,

Jonte

#61 Removed a/c_jonte

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 18:55

Firstly thanks to my old mate Mick Nicholson for his posting above. I've said a few times but will say again, without Mick's archive of plans, photographs, etc. none of this could have been done. I don't know what happened to that Patriot but many of the techniques which were first practised on that model I still use, though I've learnt to build in brass and nickel silver, since then.

So, Jonte, the brickwork. Firstly I should say that I made my own for four reasons :-

1. On the model of Hessle Haven I wanted to concentrate on the railway and its structures, rather than the setting of the railway. So this model is very much about what lies between, or over, the railway fences. I'm not decrying any of the beautifully scenic model railways on here or anywhere else but that is the underlying 'ethic' of this model; it is a model of a railway.

2. The NER used a form of English Garden Wall Bond which had every fourth course as a bonding course i.e. a course of half bricks as they were layed end on.

3. That variety of colours of well worn and well weathered brick is something I have never seen on commercially available products, though it probably does exist.

4. I wanted the relief of the brickwork to show.

The card I used was actually old Yorkshire Tea boxes cut up into roughly 6" by 4" pieces. This is about my limit for a single piece and even then a card of this size has 3,000 + bricks on it. Clearly I use the uncoloured/unprinted side. Since then I have found other cards which are of similar thickness and which will take a scribed line without tearing the surface. In general, the thinner the card the better it scribes.

The card was then marked out in pencil with the horizontal and vertical courses. This took around half an hour for a 6" by 4" card. The scriber is one half of a compass (the drawing variety not the navigational one) with the point slightly blunted. The blunting is only very slight but this results in a groove rather than a scratch on the card surface.

Then it's just a very tedious job of using a good steel rule and scribing the horizontal mortar courses, which is relatively easy. The vertical courses are much more trying as it is very easy to make a mistake. I could scribe a 6" x 4" card in around three hours and two of those would do the structure shown in the earlier photograph.

I don't actually paint the scribed card, I make a paper tampon; much as printers used to use. This is a piece of clean kitchen roll tightly rolled up into a ball and then placed inside another piece of the same material. I dip this in paint, use it on a scrap piece of card to get rid of most of the paint and then apply it to the workpiece. The result is that the paint (watercolour gouache) does not get into the mortar courses. This process is applied with usually two or three colours :-

Firstly a rather bright orange, toned down slightly with a little burnt sienna. Even so this is the colour of new bricks.

Secondly a burnt sienna which is applied over the orange but which varies in its intensity of colour simply as it goes onto the card. This starts the process of adding the variety of hues and colours.

The third part of the process is to pick out individual bricks in white (saltpetre) and then blacks or very dark browns. It is surprising how few need to be picked out to give that realistic look.

When the whole panel is coloured 'to taste', still with the mortar courses largely card coloured, then I wash the whole lot with a very diluted mix of weathered black enamel mixed with white spirit. The white spirit actually cracks the water colour paint, just as real bricks acquire a cracked and weathered surface. More importantly this seals the watercolours and protects against any moisture.

On the bridges, especially where years of smoke and soot would accumulate, then I apply a wash of black watercolour which I paint on at the top of the piece and just allow to run down. A spot of varnish will them simulate water on the brickwork.

The card is cut for use with a craft knife (Stanley) with a new blade and the edges are always cut at 45 degrees so that they hide when joined.

There you go, that's how I do it.

You might think that this is a very long winded process and if I were making a long retaining wall or a cutting wall then I would opt for something much quicker. But where there are relatively few structures to build, then this does produce a result which gets as close as possible to real bricks.

The photos, below, show the basic card I used - usual disclaimers on this Company - and a piece which has been scribed and then coloured with the orange and burnt sienna. Having to repixilate this photo might lose some of the detail but you can at least see how the mortar courses have not been coloured.

And that colour of the bricks is just about right for structures which have stood for fifty or more years. This piece still has to be picked out with the whites, blacks, etc. and then washed down with diluted black enamel and sealed.

Cheers

Mike


Thanks for your prompt and most comprehensive response, Mike. It is deeply appreciated.
Amazing how some of the most effective solutions are also the simplest (I admire your patience and perseverance nonetheless!!).
Incidentally, this is also my brand of choice :yes: I also have a blunt pair of dividers so all I need is the gouache (although I suspect that there's more of an art to this than you're letting on - still, worth a bash!).

I look forward to seeing further developments with Hessle Haven and perhaps one day seeing it on the exhibition circuit.

Best wishes,

Jonte

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 19:11

Hi again Mike

My last query (I promise). Would this process work for a whitewashed wall (e.g. as you've demonstrated but with cracked and peeling white paint over the top)?

If so, could the peeling whitewash be stippled over the brick finish and then washed with the dilute black wash to tone down and create the cracking effect?

Hope you don't mind,

Jonte.

#63 mikemeg

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 05:34

Hi again Mike

My last query (I promise). Would this process work for a whitewashed wall (e.g. as you've demonstrated but with cracked and peeling white paint over the top)?

If so, could the peeling whitewash be stippled over the brick finish and then washed with the dilute black wash to tone down and create the cracking effect?

Hope you don't mind,

Jonte.


Jonte,

Don't worry about raising queries, most of what I've learned was accumulated by raising queries or just making a bloody nuisance of myself, so I'm happy for someone else to do the same.

Your query about faded whitewash, I would think so but really (and you know what I'm going to say here) the only way to ascertain this is to try it.

For a whitewashed wall, I would be inclined to do the bricks as per the posting above and then use a different medium (not watercolour) for the whitewash, as otherwise (if you do use white watercolour) the whitewash will be coloured by the watercolours underneath.

I'd probably spray the whitewash on - Projektpaint matt white - and then, once that is hard and dry, apply the dilute black wash though using pure turps as the diluting agent. For some reason, pure turps does seem to affect projektpaint (and yes it is spelt with a 'k') - usual disclaimer; it's just very good. Do this spraying from a distance further 'than it says on the tin' and just 'flick' the spray head over the brickwork and you will get a much more random coverage more redolent of faded whitewash.

If you wanted some of the whitewash to be missing or cracked, then you could use a masking agent on the watercoloured bricks before spraying. Again, that masking agent needs to be non water soluble otherwise it will dissolve the brick colours.

There is a technique using grains of rock salt, which are much larger than grains of ordinary table salt, and are just placed on the piece, randomly. This technique is much used by watercolour artists. A very light spraying from a distance too great to cause the rock salt grains to move; wait for the paint to dry and then just brush off the rock salt grains. This will leave 'pock marks' in the whitewash.

These basic techniques I picked up from a guy who made models for Pendon; I watched him for around two hours at an exhibition. He turned white card into something beyond belief so I knew it could be done. I've just added a few touches to his techniques.

Cheers

Mike

#64 mikemeg

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 06:06

I've commented on this on your thread on the old forumMike, but as a onetime inhabitant of the bridge at Dunstons I'll renew my appreciation now :)



Do you happen to have a date for that one Mike? The first wagon looks to be a wooden ex-PO 13 tonner


Hi Pennine MC,

No I don't have a date for the EE Type 3 photo. However it cannot be earlier than mid 1961, when Hull received its first Type 3's (D6730 - D6742) and cannot be later than mid 1963 when the gantry in the middle distance was removed and replaced by colour lights.

1961 or 1962 would be my guess.

Cheers

Mike

#65 Mike G

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 15:57

Mike


Totally absorbing thread, I'd just like to clarify something from your 'brick building' - you don't colour the card before adding the brick textures? It's just the colour of the card showing thru for the mortar courses before being washed over. Just making sure I understand the process completely. It's certainly a technique I shall try.
I am totally in awe of this, completely brilliant!

kind regards

Mike

#66 Pennine MC

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 16:50

cannot be later than mid 1963 ...1961 or 1962 would be my guess.


Thanks Mike. The loco is tidy but not spotless, and ex-POs were getting rare by 1963 so that ties in with what I'd expect.

#67 micknich2003

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 16:59

Ian, my copy of the photo is dated 1963, and that fits in with everything else. Mick.

#68 Pennine MC

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 17:05

Cheers Mick :good_mini:

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 21:50

Jonte,

Don't worry about raising queries, most of what I've learned was accumulated by raising queries or just making a bloody nuisance of myself, so I'm happy for someone else to do the same.

Your query about faded whitewash, I would think so but really (and you know what I'm going to say here) the only way to ascertain this is to try it.

For a whitewashed wall, I would be inclined to do the bricks as per the posting above and then use a different medium (not watercolour) for the whitewash, as otherwise (if you do use white watercolour) the whitewash will be coloured by the watercolours underneath.

I'd probably spray the whitewash on - Projektpaint matt white - and then, once that is hard and dry, apply the dilute black wash though using pure turps as the diluting agent. For some reason, pure turps does seem to affect projektpaint (and yes it is spelt with a 'k') - usual disclaimer; it's just very good. Do this spraying from a distance further 'than it says on the tin' and just 'flick' the spray head over the brickwork and you will get a much more random coverage more redolent of faded whitewash.

If you wanted some of the whitewash to be missing or cracked, then you could use a masking agent on the watercoloured bricks before spraying. Again, that masking agent needs to be non water soluble otherwise it will dissolve the brick colours.

There is a technique using grains of rock salt, which are much larger than grains of ordinary table salt, and are just placed on the piece, randomly. This technique is much used by watercolour artists. A very light spraying from a distance too great to cause the rock salt grains to move; wait for the paint to dry and then just brush off the rock salt grains. This will leave 'pock marks' in the whitewash.

These basic techniques I picked up from a guy who made models for Pendon; I watched him for around two hours at an exhibition. He turned white card into something beyond belief so I knew it could be done. I've just added a few touches to his techniques.

Cheers

Mike


Most tolerant, Mike. Thank you.

Thanks again for the blow-by-blow; I've seen several examples of the grains of salt method you mentioned on youtube but never heard of it being used with watercolour. I'll give it a bash as you suggest, and if it works, I'll post the pictures for your enjoyment :D

Best wishes,

Jonte.

#70 mikemeg

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 11:20

Mike


Totally absorbing thread, I'd just like to clarify something from your 'brick building' - you don't colour the card before adding the brick textures? It's just the colour of the card showing thru for the mortar courses before being washed over. Just making sure I understand the process completely. It's certainly a technique I shall try.
I am totally in awe of this, completely brilliant!

kind regards

Mike


Mike,

That's correct. The card is scribed before being coloured so that the mortar courses are just the natural card colour before being washed over with the very diluted weathered black and white spirit, after all of the water colouring has been done.

Cheers

Mike

#71 the penguin of doom

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 18:13

Hi Mick.

Some cracking modelling, as per usual. I'm going to try take you some pictures of what remains of the Dunstons bridge when I'm next walking the dog that way.

I've also PM'd you with some good news from the HMRG.

Cheers.

Sean.

#72 mikemeg

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:26

While I concentrate on things other than building the third section of the railway, let me post a photo to show the enormous changes which have taken place in the railway infrastructure in the last fifty years.

Earlier in this thread is a photo of an EE Type 3 (Class 37) leaving one of the Hull marshalling yards. The photo below, for which I don't have a date but is certainly later than 1983 - when Hessle Haven signal box closed - shows the same locale. The marshalling yards have all been lifted and the area which they once covered is now rapidly being re-claimed by nature. The four track main line is now two track and the profusion of signals and pointwork has all gone.

Compare that photo with a photo from fifty years ago of almost exactly the same place (perhaps a hundred yards further west as the cottages are still there), full of all of the paraphenalia which was part of the manually operated railway.

I guess that's progress but, certainly for me, the interest, the fascination with this place, has passed into history.

Cheers

Mike

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#73 micknich2003

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:41

Dear Mike,the photo is one of mine and taken by me from the signal box window looking east. The relay room roof can just be seen in right hand corner. The train is leaving what was then left of the once mighty Hull yards. Best Wishes, Mick.


While I concentrate on things other than building the third section of the railway, let me post a photo to show the enormous changes which have taken place in the railway infrastructure in the last fifty years.

Earlier in this thread is a photo of an EE Type 3 (Class 37) leaving one of the Hull marshalling yards. The photo below, for which I don't have a date but is certainly later than 1983 - when Hessle Haven signal box closed - shows the same locale. The marshalling yards have all been lifted and the area which they once covered is now rapidly being re-claimed by nature. The four track main line is now two track and the profusion of signals and pointwork has all gone.

Compare that photo with a photo from fifty years ago of almost exactly the same place (perhaps a hundred yards further west as the cottages are still there), full of all of the paraphenalia which was part of the manually operated railway.

I guess that's progress but, certainly for me, the interest, the fascination with this place, has passed into history.

Cheers

Mike



#74 mikemeg

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 06:25

Bl--dy hell, what's this; an ex-LMS Jubilee passing through this bastion of the old NER and LNER? In the 1950's and 60's, Jubilees were a fairly common sight in Hull though they tended to come from the Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool sheds.

Perhaps it's Saturday evening in high summer of 1950 and perhaps Nottingham shed's 45611 - Hong Kong - is on its way back to the Midlands with an excursion from Bridlington or Scarborough. Oh but the spotters on Shipyard bridge will be glad they made the journey to Hessle Haven, this evening, to see a Nottingham Jube!

That J72, with its 108 : 1 gearing and 4' 0" driving wheels will easily outhaul the Jubilee, at least until the Jubilee is 'worked on', though at a somewhat slower speed.

I really am going to have to paint some backscenes for this and the other sections of the railway. Yet another painting to do! Who said we slow down and do less, in retirement - not true!

Cheers

Mike

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#75 iak

iak

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:43

VERY tasty Mike.
I assume its a High Level gearbox in the J72?







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