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Small curved scissors

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#1 Rowsley17D

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 19:50

I am hoping to build a version of Buxton MR station. The original plan had a strange scissors cross-over which is beyond me to create in Templot. However, I have created a scissors cross-over which would do the job provided it would work if built. Would it work though? Just because it can be drawn in Templot does not mean it will work in model form. I have built my own turnouts before which include diamonds.

 

curved_scissors.png

 

Sorry it's so small, clicking on will make it bigger but not much.


Edited by Rowsley17D, 14 November 2017 - 19:52 .




#2 Gordon A

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 23:43

Providing the unit is built using the proper gauges with out any kinks it should work, but don't ask me about the wiring.

 

Gordon A



#3 martin_wynne

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:23

Hi Jonathan,

 

That looks ok, all the V-crossings can be checked. The critical dimension in a scissors is the spacing between the running lines. Some spacings mean that the V-crossings are directly opposite each other, which means they can't be checked (have their check rails in the correct place). That one looks ok, but it's a very small image to be sure about.

 

regards,

 

Martin.



#4 Rowsley17D

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 18:55

I have had a go at trying to make the original scissors turnout for Buxton MR as best I could by putting one turnout on top of another. Of course there should be gaps in the rails but I cannot make them in Templot.

 

For those with Templot, I hope they are able to open the file below.

 

Attached File  Buxton Original Scissors.box   47.92KB   40 downloads


Edited by Rowsley17D, 19 November 2017 - 18:58 .


#5 martin_wynne

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 20:24

Hi Jonathan,

 

You can get close as a simple curved single-slip, like this:

 

buxton_xovers.png

click to see bigger

 

File: Attached File  buxton_xovers_215d.box   72.33KB   12 downloads

 

I suspect that the real one had switches of the opposite hand, with a straight run through on the top road. Which would require using partial templates in Templot, although the slip gives you a good starting point.

 

Martin.



#6 Rowsley17D

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 16:38

Thanks, Martin. I'll have a play around tonight.

 

Here is a photo from Peak Rail's collection showing the MR scissors I am looking to replicate if possible. If I have infringed copyright I will remove the image.

 

 

buxton(peak_rail_early20th)old14.jpg

 

 


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#7 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 17:31

That is not so much a slip as two curved points interleaved.

 

I have not mastered Templot (or any other CAD program for that matter!) but wonder if overlaying two curved points could be an option.



#8 Grovenor

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 17:34

What date is that photo? The layout is very different from that shown here

http://maps.nls.uk/g...&layers=168&b=1

Regards



#9 martin_wynne

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 17:40

Had that photo been posted earlier I would not have attempted to replicate it as a single slip.

 

However, functionally it is identical to a single slip -- with the possible exception of speed limits over the various roads.

 

Martin.



#10 Rowsley17D

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 17:50

What date is that photo? The layout is very different from that shown here

http://maps.nls.uk/g...&layers=168&b=1

Regards

 

I think the map shows a simplified interpretation of what the layout actually was as the date of the photograph is c1907. It appears to be still like this in a photo dated 1930 but a photo dated 1947 shows a more familiar scissors crossover.



#11 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 18:05

Hi Jonathan,

 

Old Maps 1922 map shows the crossover as in the photo, https://www.old-maps...73766/12/101062



#12 Velopeur

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 18:31

The maps suggest that the turnout nearest the station in your formation is actually a slip - presumably a single slip?



#13 Rowsley17D

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 20:12

The maps suggest that the turnout nearest the station in your formation is actually a slip - presumably a single slip?

 

The turnout nearest the station is the exit from the shed and is a turnout back to back with another forming a catch-point



#14 Rowsley17D

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 20:14

That is not so much a slip as two curved points interleaved.

 

I have not mastered Templot (or any other CAD program for that matter!) but wonder if overlaying two curved points could be an option.

 

It is as you have said and that is what I have done in the link above.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....ttach_id=928482


Edited by Rowsley17D, 20 November 2017 - 20:16 .


#15 Echo

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 20:48

The turnout nearest the station is the exit from the shed and is a turnout back to back with another forming a catch-point

 

He was only going by the map I suggest, which suggests a diamond crossing or a slip

 

U1.jpg

 

I don't have any photos to compare it with.


Edited by Echo, 20 November 2017 - 20:48 .

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#16 Velopeur

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 21:52

The turnout nearest the station is the exit from the shed and is a turnout back to back with another forming a catch-point

Actually, looking at photos, it's a double slip. See 'Through Limestone Hills' by Bil Hudson Plate 245. I am talking about the formation ringed in Echo's post, which is one end of the formation you are asking advice on.

 

Or was it different in the period you are modelling?


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#17 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 22:08

The blue area is what is seen in the photo, the surveyor hasn't drawn the track 100%, he was a cartographer not a PW engineer. The map shows the ticket platform.

Buxton map.png

 

It doesn't help that a ward boundary goes between the Up and Down lines.


Edited by Clive Mortimore, 20 November 2017 - 22:10 .


#18 Velopeur

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 22:14

But the OP is trying to draw an accurate model of more than what you enclosed in the blue oval, Clive. His trackwork extends halfway into the red circle. I am worried that he has drawn an ordinary turnout when the map suggests a diamond or a slip and the photo in Bill Hudson's book shows a double slip.


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#19 Rowsley17D

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:57

I don't think there were ever two double slips as shown in the Bill Hudson diagram in Through Limestone Hills page 164. ‚ÄčThe one nearest the station is a double slip but the next one in Bill's diagram is actually scissors crossover which appears in the photo above.


Edited by Rowsley17D, 21 November 2017 - 10:04 .


#20 Velopeur

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:27

Here is an enlarged view of the area you are modelling. It shows the "scissors" from your earlier photo. There is clearly a double slip attached to it in the foreground.

 

ascan0001.jpg

 

This is the same as the image in Bill Hudson's book I referred to earlier.

 

I was going to offer to draw the formation in Templot for you, but this really is beginning to seem too much like hard work ;)



#21 hayfield

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:29

That is not so much a slip as two curved points interleaved.

 

I have not mastered Templot (or any other CAD program for that matter!) but wonder if overlaying two curved points could be an option.

 

Joseph

 

Whilst going off topic a bit, that is what you can do with Templot, which is to overlay or partially overlay one template on to another. A club I am considering joining wants to replace a piece of trackwork where a scissors crossover is partially overlaid on to a slips exit, to a facing crossover where one exit is overlaid on to one of the slips exits. With the new slip facility its quite an easy job.

 

By the way few master Templot, most like me are able to use most of the functionality, sometimes with a little assistance from others.



#22 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:43

Here is an enlarged view of the area you are modelling. It shows the "scissors" from your earlier photo. There is clearly a double slip attached to it in the foreground.

 

attachicon.gifascan0001.jpg

 

This is the same as the image in Bill Hudson's book I referred to earlier.

 

I was going to offer to draw the formation in Templot for you, but this really is beginning to seem too much like hard work ;)

Hi Velopeur

 

I see the MR had the same problem as I did when trying to add a double slip to a scissors crossover. The blades and tiebars of the slip are close to the crossing vee which in turn push the diamond part of the scissors over into the four foot of the other track. I made things worse by having a tandem point in the mix as well. A curved version sounds very interesting to make.

track 1.png


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#23 Velopeur

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:57

Yes. You really have to draw the scissors and the double slip together in Templot. That was really why I raised my query with the OP. He had just drawn an ordinary turnout where the double slip is, which is nothing like the same.



#24 Rowsley17D

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 13:49

Yes. You really have to draw the scissors and the double slip together in Templot. That was really why I raised my query with the OP. He had just drawn an ordinary turnout where the double slip is, which is nothing like the same.

 

Quite right. the left-hand turnout should be a double slip. The MR scissors had to be drawn using two overlapping turnouts and I put plain turnouts at either end to get the flow of the track-work, so I'll put a double-slip in the right place later on.



#25 Rowsley17D

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 17:47

Here is the MR scissors with the double slip attached.

 

 

curved_scissors.png

 

Sorry it's so small again, clicking on it will make it slightly bigger but I don't know how to do it as in Martin's post #5.


Edited by Rowsley17D, 21 November 2017 - 17:52 .













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