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50th Anniversary of the end of Steam over Shap?

Shap



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#1 Trev52A

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 23:00

Although steam locos from Carnforth still sporadically climbed Shap from the south with traffic to/from the quarry and cement works just past the summit well into 1968, there is a good case for regarding 1967 as the 'real' end of steam, since a) it was the final year of steam passenger working on the line, b) it was the last year of normal through steam working of any kind to/from Carlisle following the closure of Kingmoor to steam at the end of the year (unless anyone knows differently) and c) it was definitely the last full â€‹year of steam on Shap.

 

Several of the railway magazines are currently featuring articles on steam over Shap, so, with the proviso of a question mark in the title, how about a thread to mark 1967 as the 'half century' with pictures and memories from that year?

 

I'll start the ball rolling with two shots of Brits in action from the final summer.

 

(192bS) 70029 Climbing Shap 15-7-67 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

70029 climbs past Shap Wells with the 13.20 Euston to Glasgow (1S80) on 15th July 1967. Amazingly, this was a summer Saturday train which was rostered non-stop from Crewe to Carlisle for a 'Britannia'. My abiding memory is seeing the driver doff his cap to the assembled photographers as he pounded past!

 

(170jS) 70039 Dillicar Troughs 15-7-67 (T. Ermel) .jpg.JPG

One of the final spectacles of the steam era was seeing locos picking up water from troughs at speed. This is 70039 doing just that on Dillicar troughs, just past Tebay station, after dropping down from Shap summit with a Saturdays-only Glasgow to Liverpool express (1M38) on 15th July 1967.

 

Let's see more!

 

Trevor


Edited by Trev52A, 24 November 2017 - 23:27 .

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#2 balders

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 00:34

And the bonus of a porthole BSK in blue and white looking very smart behind the engine in the first photo! Nice photos thanks Trev!

Regards

Guy
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#3 LNER4479

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:15

Ah! Britain's Last Great Steam Show perhaps?

 

IMG_9789.JPG

Thanks very much for starting this thread and posting the first picture in particular. Your timing is uncanny as I have been involved with a project to put together a 1967 themed layout for this weekend's Warley show which is celebrating 50 years of the Warley club. Shap was chosen as a location to model for exactly this reason; anyone coming to the show can see the 'finished' (ha!) version.

 

We found your photo on the internet and, as you can see, have gone to some trouble to try and capture the essence of this very train, including the blue/grey Stanier Porthole first vehicle, although I suspect that was not the thing uppermost in your mind as you pressed the shutter. You weren't stood on top of the platelayers hut were you by any chance?!!

 

Bizarrely, I actually found another picture of this very same train - in colour - taken a few moments later at the location just beyond the Shap Wells spot. There's any number of photos on the internet of Shap in the summer of '67; must have been quite a carnival atmosphere on Saturdays by that late stage.

 

I was only 3 at the time(!) so no photos of my own to offer (other than the model!) but my Dad did go up there a few years earlier and captured some 8mm cine film which is available through Railfilms under the 'Steam in Retrospect' series.

 

Thanks very much for posting.


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#4 Trev52A

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:57

And the bonus of a porthole BSK in blue and white looking very smart behind the engine in the first photo! Nice photos thanks Trev!

Regards

Guy

 

Thanks, Guy. I was not (and am still not) an expert on coaching stock, but this is obvious now you have pointed it out, isn't it? I am sure I will have more Stanier 'Porthole' coaches on other pictures I took at the time - might be worth me looking through them. I believe Bachmann offer such a model (?) but rather expensive, I believe.

 

 

Ah! Britain's Last Great Steam Show perhaps?

 

attachicon.gifIMG_9789.JPG

Thanks very much for starting this thread and posting the first picture in particular. Your timing is uncanny as I have been involved with a project to put together a 1967 themed layout for this weekend's Warley show which is celebrating 50 years of the Warley club. Shap was chosen as a location to model for exactly this reason; anyone coming to the show can see the 'finished' (ha!) version.

 

We found your photo on the internet and, as you can see, have gone to some trouble to try and capture the essence of this very train, including the blue/grey Stanier Porthole first vehicle, although I suspect that was not the thing uppermost in your mind as you pressed the shutter. You weren't stood on top of the platelayers hut were you by any chance?!!

 

Bizarrely, I actually found another picture of this very same train - in colour - taken a few moments later at the location just beyond the Shap Wells spot. There's any number of photos on the internet of Shap in the summer of '67; must have been quite a carnival atmosphere on Saturdays by that late stage.

 

I was only 3 at the time(!) so no photos of my own to offer (other than the model!) but my Dad did go up there a few years earlier and captured some 8mm cine film which is available through Railfilms under the 'Steam in Retrospect' series.

 

Thanks very much for posting.

 

I am flattered you have chosen my photo as an inspiration for your layout. Sadly, I won't be at the show to see it, but going by your photo you have captured the scene very well - it is undoubtedly the spot many of us (of a certain age!) will immediately recognise. I hope you have the lopsided train headboard (which should read 1S80) as per the prototype!

I must admit, yes, I was on top of the platelayers hut. As a 16-year old I was trying to get a 'different view' to the crowd of others who were standing in the conventional position. I was duly told off and climbed down after the train had passed. If you wish to add me to the scene I was wearing a blue padded jacket, jeans and specs!

 

Best wishes for the show.

 

Trevor


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#5 APOLLO

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 11:19

Modern steam but well worth watching - The Bulleid makes it - JUST, Sir Nigels finest romps over !!

 

 

The there's this

 

 

Brit15


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#6 LMS2968

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 14:41

Similar to the 71000 video is this one of 6233:



These were both excellent performances by the two engines concerned. Although 6233's speed at the summit was lower than 71000's, she did have almost an extra 60 tons on the drawbar (632 tons, not the 610 given in the video). She actually beat her sister 6234's performance of 26 February 1939 when that engine set the record for power output of a British steam loco. 6233's exhaust was noticeably cleaner than 71000's, presumably due to different coal.
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#7 Trev52A

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 18:39

A couple of views at Tebay shed on 15th July 1967, by which time the banking duties were in the hands of Standard 4MT 4-6-0s:

 

(195aS) 75030+75026 Tebay MPD 15-7-67  (Trevor Ermel).jpg

75030 inside the shed with 75026 outside, waiting for business

 

(193a) 75026 Tebay MPD 15-7-67 (TrevorErmel) .jpg

A view from the cab of 75026, the one with the double chimney and in (dirty) green livery

 

Trevor


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#8 Trev52A

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:02

I'm a bit surprised no-one else has uploaded photos to this thread, although on second thoughts you would probably need to be at least 65 to be eligible! Perhaps the readers are mainly youngsters!

 

So here are a couple more of mine:

 

(176eS) 70025 13-20 Euston-Glasgow climbing Shap 2-9-67 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

70025 climbing near Scout Green on 2nd September 1967 on the final run of 1S80, the 13.20 Euston to Glasgow (steam-hauled from Crewe to Carlisle). A nice mix of coaches, including some ex-LMS examples at the rear? 

 

(212cS) D244+75026 banking Shap 28-10-67 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

D244 at Shap Wells, ably assisted by 75026 on 28th October 1967

 

Trevor

 

Edited to correct time of 1S80 from Euston to 13.20


Edited by Trev52A, Yesterday, 16:05 .

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#9 Barry O

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:09

While Bachmann do manufacture 4mm Stanier porthole coaches (only in blood and custard though) the two on the layout are 247 development sided "kits" which I built and painted blue and grey. They do make a difference in the train though.

 

Baz


Edited by Barry O, 27 November 2017 - 14:22 .

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#10 Trev52A

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 16:33

Here are a couple of pics taken in December 1967, just before Tebay closed to steam:

 

(201a)  44802+75026 banker leaving Tebay 23-12-67 (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

Photographed in foul weather, 44802 and 75026 at Tebay, starting the battle against the gradient up to Shap summit on 23rd December 1967

 

(204bS) 44897 Tebay station 16-12-67 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

44897 runs light engine through Tebay station on 16th December 1967

 

Trevor

 

 


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#11 Trev52A

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 12:31

To try and kick-start this thread once more, here is an 8F making an all-out effort (without a banker) climbing to Shap with a mixed freight, including two oil tanks at the front.

 

(210aS) 48077 Shap Wells 28-10-67  (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

48077 at Shap Wells on 28th October 1967

 

If only models could replicate the sheer spectacle of scenes like this!

 

Trevor


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#12 LMS2968

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 12:50

I read that if a goods train consisted of more than 19 unfitted wagons then a banker was mandatory, not so much for assistance but as insurance against a breakaway.
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#13 Reorte

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 16:20

Why the two brake vans? Required barrier vehicles before the tanks?



#14 Trev52A

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 16:41

Why the two brake vans? Required barrier vehicles before the tanks?

 

I presume that is the reason. I'll upload the shot taken a few seconds earlier which shows the whole train.

 

Trevor



#15 Trev52A

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 16:58

..and here's the shot of 48077 approaching, showing the nice mix of wagons and no banker.

As far as I can see there are a total of 25 vehicles behind the tender. The headcode, which is more obvious here than on the side-on shot earlier, is for a Class 7 'express freight not fitted with continuous brake' (according to my 1965 ABC Headcodes book)

 

(211aS) 48077 Shap Wells 28-10-67  (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

48077 at Shap Wells on 28th October 1967

 

Trevor


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#16 pH

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 18:17

Interesting that there's a brake in the middle of that train.

#17 LMS2968

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 20:13

Brake vans could and did get out of sequence and a lot end up in one place with none where they were needed, so returning them 'empty' was quite common. In these cases they could be returned in a normal goods train, and their position in it didn't matter.

#18 62613

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 20:31

Is it also acting as a barrier for the tank immediately in front of it? No less than 4 brakevans in that train! I suppose "Express freight NOT fitted with the continuous brake" means that all the wagons have to have oil, or by this time, roller bearing axleboxes, so that it doesn't have to stop for inspection so often?



#19 RfDforever

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 21:13

Now this may be being too pedantic; but surely reference to Stanier 'porthole' stock is wrong, because this stock was not built until some time after Mr Stanier's departure - quite apart from questioning whether the C&W Engineer might have had more input to design than the CM&EE.

Although the learned LMS coach gurus have combined together as "Period 3" all the steel sided designs with, in the case of gangwayed stock, ventilators within the window, postwar LMS coaches had a design improvement of great interest to the passenger - they were steel framed.

It seems odd to me that such an important improvement is not worthy of mention. Articles and books about the Harrow disaster, for instance, routinely describe the LMS coaches as wood framed, but photographic evidence shows that the porthole BSK at the front of the down (Liverpool?) train remained structurally intact.

To return to the thread subject; I have a photo, not of my taking, of a Britannia-hauled train which, from memory, is captioned as 'last steam passenger train over Shap' and (memory getting shakier) a Glasgow-Liverpool football excursion. Wish I could find it!


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#20 Q663389

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 21:19

Now this may be being too pedantic; but surely reference to Stanier 'porthole' stock is wrong, because this stock was not built until some time after Mr Stanier's departure - quite apart from questioning whether the C&W Engineer might have had more input to design than the CM&EE.
Although the learned LMS coach gurus have combined together as "Period 3" all the steel sided designs with, in the case of gangwayed stock, ventilators within the window, postwar LMS coaches had a design improvement of great interest to the passenger - they were steel framed.
It seems odd to me that such an important improvement is not worthy of mention. Articles and books about the Harrow disaster, for instance, routinely describe the LMS coaches as wood framed, but photographic evidence shows that the porthole BSK at the front of the down (Liverpool?) train remained structurally intact.
To return to the thread subject; I have a photo, not of my taking, of a Britannia-hauled train which, from memory, is captioned as 'last steam passenger train over Shap' and (memory getting shakier) a Glasgow-Liverpool football excursion. Wish I could find it!

.




I believe the "modern" term for ex LMS Porthole stock introduced by David Jenkinson in his books was "Period IV" .

#21 pH

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 21:21

Brake vans could and did get out of sequence and a lot end up in one place with none where they were needed, so returning them 'empty' was quite common. In these cases they could be returned in a normal goods train, and their position in it didn't matter.


I think I was probably comparing that with North American practice. Cabooses were deadheaded, but I've never seen pictures of them anywhere other than on the back end.

#22 cal.n

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 22:24

Being of an age that the Railways have been privatized my whole life, I haven't lived through any major rail events like the end of mainline steam, Beeching cuts or privatization itself.

 

But if I could go back to any time to see something, I think I would choose Scout Green in Autumn 1967, probably over another (major) event like 4468's run or 60103's non stop run. Would have loved to have seen the banking operations.

 

Keep the pictures coming



#23 DavidLong

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 22:42

To try and kick-start this thread once more, here is an 8F making an all-out effort (without a banker) climbing to Shap with a mixed freight, including two oil tanks at the front.

 

attachicon.gif(210aS) 48077 Shap Wells 28-10-67 (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

48077 at Shap Wells on 28th October 1967

 

If only models could replicate the sheer spectacle of scenes like this!

 

Trevor

 

Berry Wiggins tanks, I think, behind the brake vans.

 

David


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#24 Trev52A

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 23:35

Now this may be being too pedantic; but surely reference to Stanier 'porthole' stock is wrong, because this stock was not built until some time after Mr Stanier's departure - quite apart from questioning whether the C&W Engineer might have had more input to design than the CM&EE.

Although the learned LMS coach gurus have combined together as "Period 3" all the steel sided designs with, in the case of gangwayed stock, ventilators within the window, postwar LMS coaches had a design improvement of great interest to the passenger - they were steel framed.

It seems odd to me that such an important improvement is not worthy of mention. Articles and books about the Harrow disaster, for instance, routinely describe the LMS coaches as wood framed, but photographic evidence shows that the porthole BSK at the front of the down (Liverpool?) train remained structurally intact.

To return to the thread subject; I have a photo, not of my taking, of a Britannia-hauled train which, from memory, is captioned as 'last steam passenger train over Shap' and (memory getting shakier) a Glasgow-Liverpool football excursion. Wish I could find it!

 

Thanks for that coach information. I shall use the term LMS porthole stock from now on. As has been mentioned earlier, unfortunately Bachmann (or anyone else?) don't make a RTR blue&grey version of the coach seen behind 70029 in my first photo on this thread which sparked this debate.

 

As regards the last steam passenger train over Shap, you must be thinking of the celebrated Boxing Day Carlisle to Blackpool footie special, hauled by a specially cleaned 70013. The low morning lighting and spectacular exhaust effects on the northern climb to Shap made for some super photos, as seen in the railway press of the time. Unfortunately I wasn't there to see it myself! The same loco made the return climb from the south on the return, although photos of this northbound run don't seem to have surfaced. (Perhaps it was after daylight hours?)

 

Trevor


Edited by Trev52A, 06 December 2017 - 23:38 .


#25 Trev52A

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 23:42

Berry Wiggins tanks, I think, behind the brake vans.

 

David

 

Yes, David. Well spotted. I can now make out the word 'Wiggins' towards the rear of the first wagon. Would that be bitumen, rather than oil?

I'll get the caption changed if needed.

 

Cheers

Trevor









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