Wessex Junction, WOE in the 90's. new layout build underway!

[Rhysb]

***** PLEASE NOTE I HAVE NOW MOVED HOUSE COMPLETE WITH NEW RAILWAY ROOM SO NEW IMPROVED WESSEX JUNCTION MK2 STARTS AT POST 42 ON THIS THREAD ******

 

Good evening all. After a while viewing various layouts on here and spending time in my loft "messing about" and learning techniques and all about modern modelling I though it was about time I started my own thread. After meeting Ian (Temeraire/Tidworth) and Mike (Oak Road) recently at a show they also pushed me to get my layout on here. It is also great to meet people whose layouts I have admired on here for some time and can play trains with!

 

So here goes. Apologies for the long initial thread but hopefully it will give you a good background.

 

Firstly me:

 

As like most on here I have always been keen on planes trains and automobiles. Thus as a child I was bought my first train set for Christmas (The Hornby HST set) and from there it grew into a large 8x4 round layout that we all try and make as realistic as possible for a 15 year old boy. Fast forward 20 odd years and as I'm pushing 40 with a young daughter myself I thought it was time to rekindle my love of model railways. So around 2 years ago I decided to take a trip down to my local model shop and a visit to an exhibition near to my house. From there I got the bug back and decided it was time to build an adult model railway and not a trainset.

 

Ok so after visiting my local shop and a few exhibitions I had a few ideas on a layout but could not decide on a location or era. I am not great at sticking with an idea or plan and tend to go from one thing to another. First it was up to date GWR then it was Scotrail then it was London, then Cornwall and so on. What ultimately happened was I built some baseboards in the loft and basically threw ideas at it and it ended up a mess and a load of loco's and stock from different eras and locations. It did however give me a chance to learn DCC, how to ballast and basic modelling that as a child I never did.

 

The Layout:

 

Finally in the end about 3-4 months ago I settled on a location and era. What I did was (as most of us do I guess) was went back to my childhood. After moving to Andover in 1988 I grew up in this area, so my first train journeys were on loco hauled NSE trains on the West of England line to Salisbury. These were operated by mainly class 50's (and ultimately my 1990 xmas present was a Lima class 50 NSE set to go with my HST) but it was the introduction of the DMU's (Class 159's) that I remember most of all. These looked great in the NSE livery. My main journeys were from Andover to Salisbury with the family and whenever I visited my Gran in Wales it was a trip to Salisbury then a change onto a regional railways class 158 to Cardiff then a change onto the recently re-opened valley lines onto another DMU. Hence (and I know a lot of people are going to look at me funny here) I do really love DMU's. As a grown up I now know these as Class 150's, 158's etc but as a child they were simply "sprinters" or "super sprinters" to me.

 

So after living in Andover for over a decade then moving to Somerset and finally to my current home in North Wiltshire I decided to locate my layout in this area but in the era of my childhood. The layout is in the loft.

 

The layout is set in the period from mainly in 1992/93 but with some stock to around 1996. The main focus is the Wessex Main line from around the Bradford on Avon area where it leaves the great western main line down to it meeting and crossing the LSWR West of England main line and with a branch line breaking off somewhere which I am basing on the Heart of Wessex line. With this era it allows me to run the vast amount of DMU's I have collected with 150's and 158's in regional railways and alphaline liveries on the GWR sections on the south coast to cardiff services and 159's on the LSWR sections London to Exeter. Being 1992 there will be a couple of class 50's on the LSWR still operating NSE loco hauled services to Waterloo and the odd class 33 and other loco's. NSE and Regional railways will be the main liveries with the odd 159 seeing SWT stickers as we approach 1996 and privatisation. Thumpers will also arrive into the main station from Southampton/Romsey. Freight will be as per the period. My only bit of modellers licence will be class 47's in intercity livery operating cross country services from the North down to Southampton and Portsmouth. These services normally go via Reading but BR to relieve pressure and provide extra capacity now send the trains that call into Bristol and normally down the west country to the south coast as well. Finally HST's and the odd sleeper train will appear as well on diverts or using the Wessex main line instead of the great western or reading to taunton line.

 

Ok so the layout is a roundy round in the loft. I have decided however to break the layout into two main runs on either side each being 24 feet in length (48ft of scenic in total). Then each of the 24 foot sections is broken down into two 12 foot sections each with a different area of the line. This is to achieve the separate areas of the Wessex area in such a small area. Hopefully this layout track plan below makes sense?

 

 

The green framed areas are the scenic areas of the baseboards. On the scenic area's it is Peco code 75 and off scenic I have used code 100 or set track for curves.

 

Starting in the top left the station/townscene will be based on Salisbury where all the lines meet (except the heart of Wessex line but a bit of licence added here). It will feature the station and the bridge over Fisherton Street. Behind the station will be the recently opened train care depot that was built to house and maintain the class 159's. I may also add some sort of industry here for shunting as well. The station name is yet to be decided but will be NSE branded like Salisbury was. Below you can see a picture of the area of loft this will be in:

 

 

Moving right into the Wessex scene. This will have the main "Wessex junction" which the layout name comes from. This is where the LSWR line diverges and disappears out the back of the scenic area on its way to Waterloo via Andover, Basingstoke etc. The GWR line continues along with the diverging Heart of Wessex branch line. These will go over bridges/viaducts spanning the River Avon. The branch line disappears out of the scenic area to join the off scenic loop/relief track. The GWR line will then arrive into a small town and station based on Bradford on Avon and likewise crossing a level crossing into a tunnel similar to exiting Bradford on Avon. This station will be branded like BOA station is today with "heritage" GWR brown signage alongside modern signage of the ERA. This is so I have a place to operate different era stock should I want too.

 

Moving to the opposite side of the layout there are 2 sections. These are a lot narrower than the other side only being just over 30cm deep. Thus only the GWR Wessex main line is on this section. The first is a forest/country area and the second is based on the Wylye valley area with a high level embankment crossing a river and the A36 trunk road. The picture below shows on the left the Wessex area and on the right the forest area with the second being the :

 

 

This valley area will be my first main focus. Having the 4 main sections will allow me to focus on one area at a time as this will be a long haul layout. Below is the Valley/Embankment area on the left with the station area on the right. In the background is the off scene loop.

 

 

Below a class 158 on a Portsmouth-Cardiff Alphaline service passes along the embankment scene:

 

 

Apologies for the super long post but hopefully you enjoyed reading it and can see how the layout will work and progress. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and I will try and post updates as often as I can.

 

Rhys

Edited October 23, 2018 by Rhysb

[Rhysb]

I have added a temporary back scene to the valley scene. This was taken myself from a few photos taken in the actual location in the Wylye valley. This side of the layout will be based in Autumn. I used my own pictures for this section for a couple of reasons: Firstly its impossible to find off the shelf back scenes that are set in Autumn and secondly the height of the back scenes here is only around 20cm tall so suits A4 size paper.

 

Happy with the overall effect. Will probably re-do these more professionally once the scenery in front is complete.

 

 

 

Below is sone views from ground level up to the railway line. I wanted this section to have that "non-flat model railway" look:

 

 

 

 

Finally a shot running down the line:

 

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

[Temeraire]

Welcome aboard Rhys!

 

Look forward to seeing the layout develop over time should be right up my and other Tidworth operators street for a visit, especially if I fill it with 50s!

 

Thanks again for the paints and see you at Leaford on 29th around 11ish?

Edited December 12, 2017 by Temeraire

[PaulRhB]

For a possible industry think about one of the real ones we had

Clay

Quidhampton Quarry by -salisburyASC-

 

Then there's the MOD traffic with Dean Hill, Dinton and Chilmark. They also nearly started up fertiliser traffic that was going to be loaded either in the Up yard or Engine line at Salisbury Station.

I've got some aerial shots of the station but I can't find them in our Flickr at the mo so I'll ask Matt what he's done with them and get them uploaded if they aren't already on there.

[Rhysb]

Welcome aboard Rhys!

 

Look forward to seeing the layout develop over time should be right up my and other Tidworth operators street for a visit, especially if I fill it with 50s!

 

Thanks again for the paints and see you at Leaford on 29th around 11ish?

 

 

Ian, perfect see you on the 29th. Message me the address when you can. 

 

My pleasure on the paint. Looking forward to seeing it on the layout platform!

 

Would be great to get you all over for a visit in the new year.

[Rhysb]

For a possible industry think about one of the real ones we had

Clay

Quidhampton Quarry by -salisburyASC-

 

Then there's the MOD traffic with Dean Hill, Dinton and Chilmark. They also nearly started up fertiliser traffic that was going to be loaded either in the Up yard or Engine line at Salisbury Station.

I've got some aerial shots of the station but I can't find them in our Flickr at the mo so I'll ask Matt what he's done with them and get them uploaded if they aren't already on there.

 

Thanks Paul. I had china clay high up on my list especially with how well Ian had modelled it. Only concern with it was the close proximity to the station. The overhead shots of Salisbury would be great to see. I will upload a sketch at some point showing my station plan a little more.

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

[Revolution Mike B]

Looking good so far mate 

[PaulRhB]

I've had a bit more of a think about your main station. Are you most interested in just running trains round or might you want a bit of operation? The pointwork doesn't lend itself to getting between lines easily in the station and the innermost loop doesn't have any connection to the fiddleyard. Another thinking point is the SW stations tended to get four platforms by two outer ones and one central island, Salisbury, Basingstoke and Woking. Neither of these mean a huge change, just a bit of shuffling sideways and redistribution of your crossovers but if you are thinking WoE rather than GW it's more typical

Salisbury had that very same double track at the Western end until Wilton Junction combined the lines and how we wish we still had it

As to the industry, as Ian has done you can get it next to the station convincingly or you could limit your town to one side and fit it in there instead. Quidhampton Sidings was the stub of the GW lines cut off by Wilton Jn opening and pretty close to both Wilton South and North station sites although not concurrently. There were however fuel sidings where the ground frame is at the Junction now during WW2. No reason they couldn't have been converted to a quarry or remained as a depot

[PaulRhB]

More angles on the Flickr album if you scroll

 

SY Station (4) 010306 by -salisburyASC-

[Andrew P]

Looks like a very good start, all the best and enjoy.

[Rhysb]

I've had a bit more of a think about your main station. Are you most interested in just running trains round or might you want a bit of operation? The pointwork doesn't lend itself to getting between lines easily in the station and the innermost loop doesn't have any connection to the fiddleyard. Another thinking point is the SW stations tended to get four platforms by two outer ones and one central island, Salisbury, Basingstoke and Woking. Neither of these mean a huge change, just a bit of shuffling sideways and redistribution of your crossovers but if you are thinking WoE rather than GW it's more typical

Salisbury had that very same double track at the Western end until Wilton Junction combined the lines and how we wish we still had it

As to the industry, as Ian has done you can get it next to the station convincingly or you could limit your town to one side and fit it in there instead. Quidhampton Sidings was the stub of the GW lines cut off by Wilton Jn opening and pretty close to both Wilton South and North station sites although not concurrently. There were however fuel sidings where the ground frame is at the Junction now during WW2. No reason they couldn't have been converted to a quarry or remained as a depot

 

Paul,

 

Thank you for your photo's. Your post above is great information and you are right although my initial track plan of the station was not exact in anyway just a rough guide and the paintwork is not exact.

 

To answer your first question primarily it is operation but I also (with the nature of the layout being 4 separate sections) want the ability to also send trains just around and around (hence the relief lines off the main scenic areas). The reason for this being is that if I am shunting or operating freight in the station area passenger trains can leave the station and run round the layout and back again without me needing to operate them. Eventually I would like this passenger bit to be automated in some way (I think Leaford uses this and hoping to see this later on in the month) so I can operate freight/shunt etc and work in and around the passenger services.

 

The station section is primarily based on Salisbury yes so your post has got me re-thinking the station (in a good way) and yes it should be prototypical to the SR. I am recreating passenger services as they are today with the GWR services being regional railways and the SWT services being NSE. I am sure there is small differences now but I can work these in over time when I get a better understanding. Its also difficult as the layout of the "four section layout" also isn't exactly prototypical as in reality on my track plan trains depart west from the station and GWR services head south instead of north and go into the Wylye Valley which is North of Salisbury. At the east end the southern tracks go North to Bradford on Avon instead of South to Romsey. The NSE (SR) tracks also do the opposite of what they should but that was the whole point of having the 4 sections so that this could be disguised.

 

So I think I will take your advise and be closer to Salisbury and have only one set of double track coming in and out. At the East end this will disappear into the Salisbury Tunnel to "exit" the station scenic area. This will have a physical scenic backboard to separate it from the next Scenic area. I may even play with the fact there is 2 Tunnel bores instead of the existing one. to keep the double set of double tracks here? At the west end going to a single set of double tracks actually helps me as fitting in 4 tracks on the curve around from the otherside is problematic and by removing this down to 2 tracks with points actually will make running easier and trains are less likely to de-rail or clip each other on the tight curves (2nd and 3rd radius). I could then bring the 2 tracks in on a softer better looking curve and the access to the fiddle yard and train care depot can be prototypical to the real thing by using the old GWR lines for their old station.

 

This then allows me to have the prototypical SR station for this area. Below is what I have drawn based on your images of how Salisbury actually is today? Hopefully you can confirm I'm on the right lines?

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

Edited December 15, 2017 by Rhysb

[PaulRhB]

Paul,

 

Thank you for your photo's. Your post above is great information and you are right although my initial track plan of the station was not exact in anyway just a rough guide and the paintwork is not exact.

 

To answer your first question primarily it is operation but I also (with the nature of the layout being 4 separate sections) want the ability to also send trains just around and around (hence the relief lines off the main scenic areas). The reason for this being is that if I am shunting or operating freight in the station area passenger trains can leave the station and run round the layout and back again without me needing to operate them. Eventually I would like this passenger bit to be automated in some way (I think Leaford uses this and hoping to see this later on in the month) so I can operate freight/shunt etc and work in and around the passenger services.

 

The station section is primarily based on Salisbury yes so your post has got me re-thinking the station (in a good way) and yes it should be prototypical to the SR. I am recreating passenger services as they are today with the GWR services being regional railways and the SWT services being NSE. I am sure there is small differences now but I can work these in over time when I get a better understanding. Its also difficult as the layout of the "four section layout" also isn't exactly prototypical as in reality on my track plan trains depart west from the station and GWR services head south instead of north and go into the Wylye Valley which is North of Salisbury. At the east end the southern tracks go North to Bradford on Avon instead of South to Romsey. The NSE (SR) tracks also do the opposite of what they should but that was the whole point of having the 4 sections so that this could be disguised.

 

So I think I will take your advise and be closer to Salisbury and have only one set of double track coming in and out. At the East end this will disappear into the Salisbury Tunnel to "exit" the station scenic area. This will have a physical scenic backboard to separate it from the next Scenic area. I may even play with the fact there is 2 Tunnel bores instead of the existing one. to keep the double set of double tracks here? At the west end going to a single set of double tracks actually helps me as fitting in 4 tracks on the curve around from the otherside is problematic and by removing this down to 2 tracks with points actually will make running easier and trains are less likely to de-rail or clip each other on the tight curves (2nd and 3rd radius). I could then bring the 2 tracks in on a softer better looking curve and the access to the fiddle yard and train care depot can be prototypical to the real thing by using the old GWR lines for their old station.

 

This then allows me to have the prototypical SR station for this area. Below is what I have drawn based on your images of how Salisbury actually is today? Hopefully you can confirm I'm on the right lines?

IMG_0085.jpg

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

Rhys I don't see anything wrong with keeping the 4 tracks so lots can move It's not a scale model but your layout, all I'm suggesting is don't limit yourself by removing points that can allow crossing between lines as it will limit operation. Maybe look at Woking if you want the 4 track as if the GW lines had survived

Here's the way Salisbury is now.

 

[Andrew P]

Sailsbury Engine Line, next to Platform 5 with 47224 Arcidea in May 2003.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Andrew P

[Mike Storey]

This looks like it is going to be a stunning layout and I am looking forward to further instalments.

 

Just one comment, which regards being able to physically, easily reach every part of the layout, especially the fiddle yard. I can't tell for sure from your pics or plan, but at first glance, due to the width of your boards, it raised a worry with me. Or have you already made sure of that?

[PaulRhB]

Just noticed the crossovers had slipped on the right hand end so I've amended it

[Rhysb]

This looks like it is going to be a stunning layout and I am looking forward to further instalments.

 

Just one comment, which regards being able to physically, easily reach every part of the layout, especially the fiddle yard. I can't tell for sure from your pics or plan, but at first glance, due to the width of your boards, it raised a worry with me. Or have you already made sure of that?

 

Thanks Mike, will try and keep the instalments frequent. Although at the moment its like a fridge in the loft so mainly trying to finish an exact plan!

[Rhysb]

Evening all,

 

So after a day of deliberating over the layout I think I have come up with some great ideas for the station. What this has done though has got my inspirational self going and I have come up with some great ideas for the rest of the layout too!

 

So here goes (don't worry only a couple of hand drawn ones, I cracked out Anyrail and got some nice ones going on  )

 

The Station:

 

So as Paul has helped me out with some great ideas with his photos and information I think I have a solid plan for the station, well 2 actually but both based on the same idea. I have looked at Salisbury, Basingstoke and Woking. The Station area scene is based on Salisbury so I have to be true to the Wessex area and base it on Salisbury. I have come up with 2 designs. The first is as close to Salisbury as I can get within the space I have available. This is a double track leading in from both ends. I have had to lose some of the sidings but wanted to keep the one by the Tunnel (London) end so I could have some overgrown area's. The access to the Traincare depot is located west of platform 2 and will also be access to the clay quarry. The clay quarry will replace the fiddle yard area and I will instead of having one main large fiddle yard I will have a smaller number of small sidings off the outer relief line. This will help when I come to potentially automate the passenger traffic.

 

The second option is the same as option one but has 4 lines departing to the East towards London & the south coast. This means the tunnel is a double bore rather than the single bore in reality. In both options though I think this will provide good operation. The main platforms at 6ft long should hold 6 car double 3 car 159's and a loco with 5-6 coaches.

 

 

Into the GWR Wessex Section

 

The two different station options have an impact on the neighbouring GWR Wessex section. Option 2 keeps the Wessex scenic area as it is with the London bound lines immediately curving away to the relief lines off scene. The 2 GWR lines then diverge with the single "heart of Wessex" line going left and the Wessex main line going into the Bradford on Avon station before disappearing off scene to join with the opposite section.

 

Option 1 however (my preferred option) means the GWR section will need to be changed. With this option the London bound lines disappear and when they cross the scenic divide they become the Wessex main line heading towards the Bradford on Avon station. The heart of Wessex branch line diverts out of the Bradford on Avon station so the class 150's and 153's can use this line. This option works better as there is then no West of England lines in this section and it remains purely GWR. This way a NSE class 159 that leaves the main station on a London bound train disappears east into the Tunnel and will then reappear as a Waterloo service heading north to Bristol Temple Meads via the Bradford on Avon Station. Trains going the opposite direction do the opposite. 

 

 

The Forest Scene (Now Somerset/Dorset Scene)

 

In the Forest Scene and the Valley/Embankment scene I have come up with what I think is a good idea and slight change. The Valley/Embankment scene remains exactly the same and can be crossed by all traffic. The forest scene will now become the Dorst/Somerset scene and be further down the West of England line where there are single sections as a result of Dr Beeching. I am thinking a station similar to Templecombe could be at the end giving me an addition station. Its also a great way to use my Scenecraft art deco signal box thats just sitting around!!

 

 

These changes should give me a lot more operation and while I can never get to a full prototypical layout (that was never the intention) it should provide enough realism. For example if we follow a NSE class 159 service out of the station to the east:

 

It departs as a London Waterloo bound service and leaves the station to the east and disappears into the tunnel. It then reappears in the GWR Wessex section as a northbound service from Waterloo to Bristol Temple Meads. As it departs the Bradford on Avon station it will disappear into the tunnel and swing around onto the opposite side re-appearing as a London bound service coming from Exeter into the single line section in Somerset/Devon and heads all the way up into the valley/embankment scene before prototypically re-entering the main station from the west end.

 

Hopefully that makes sense?

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

Edited December 15, 2017 by Rhysb

[Temeraire]

Hi Rhys

 

Would it look better if you turn the station through 180degrees and then you could have the bay on a curved approach to the station making it ‘more’ Salisbury? The tunnel would then be at the right end for the tracks to disappear, also making platform 4 longer as in reality.

 

Just a thought?

[PaulRhB]

Just to throw another idea into the mix, how about separating the depot and quarry like this if you have room and use it to fill the corner? You could reverse the quarry sidings so they push back in and can leave straight away. If they actually start the new flow to fill up Quidhampton it will arrive from Andover and leave via Westbury, describing a circular route to London due to timings around the peaks.

Edited December 16, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Temeraire]

Hi again still looking/thinking!

 

With the station turned as suggested the WoE can diverge to the relief lines with a road bridge to divide your scenes. Then maybe the BoA station could be called Quidhampton with quarry sidings behind the station?

[Temeraire]

Hi Rhys

 

Been doodling with a cuppa.

 

I've drawn out my thoughts below with the station rotated and the bay on the curve. The depot is now in front of the station and assumed the shed has fallen off the layout so you have the outside holding sidings and maybe the carriage washer. After the roadbridge we get to Wilton Jct and the WoE diverges behind the backscene, I've drawn Quidhampton as a station here with the quarry behind but have since thought maybe just the quarry/sidings and then have your Bradford scene the other side going into the forest? We then appear on the embankment over the river and A36 to reach Tunnel Jct with the WoE coming in from behind again.

 

 

I've drawn a couple of long loops off the hidden roads round behind the station to give some storage.

 

I'll stop throwing in any more ideas now and let you ponder!

[PaulRhB]

You can tell it's a good idea when it gets us enthused like this

[Andrew P]

Is there a reason why the Station cannot go to the right, and then into the tunnel for London / South, other Stations and Quarry then to the left. When I tried to model it many years ago, the best bit for me was the Road Bridge at the end of Fisherton St, and the ramp up to the Station entrance. I always remember seeing lots of Seacows and other Engineering Stock parked in the Sidings above the Car Park, not so many Trees in those days.

[Revolution Mike B]

It all started out with a single line and a 158...........................................        

[Rhysb]

It all started out with a single line and a 158...........................................        

 

You know my pain!!