Oxford carriage sidings and parcels dock in the 1980s

[jamespetts]

For the purposes of planning this layout, it would help me to know if anyone has any idea of just how the carriage sidings and parcels dock at Oxford station were used in the late 1980s.

 

I have memories as a child of locomotive hauled trains and DMUs being stored between turns in the carriage sidings on the down side of the station (and adjacent to the down lines) and then the trains being brought into the up platform in time for departure - indeed, I believe that the carriage sidings were still used thus (albeit without any locomotive hauled trains) when I was last at Oxford a few years ago.

 

However, I have seen pictures of parcels/mail trains in the carriage sidings, and of DMUs in the down sidings but adjacent to the up lines (i.e., on the town side of the main line). I think that I have a fairly good idea of how these sidings must have worked for passenger trains (although anyone with more detailed knowledge giving more information would be most welcome), but I am quite unsure how it would have worked with mail trains.

 

Indeed, I am not even entirely sure of precisely the distinction between "mail" and "parcels" trains in the period: was "parcels" just the red star service where people could drop off and pick up packages at stations, which was nothing to do with the Royal Mail at all, or was there some overlap? Would mail trains have had anything to do with the parcels dock, or would mail trains just have passed through, perhaps picking up/dropping off mail bags at the station?

 

I am aware that some passenger trains carried mail at the time - would regular dedicated mail (if different from parcels) trains have called at the station (daily? twice daily? more often)? How frequent would parcels trains (in so far as they are different from mail trains) have been?

 

I should be very grateful for any insight.

[brushman47544]

I was a regular basher in the area in the mid/late 80s. My memories are that the sidings north of Oxford station on the down side were mostly used by loco hauled passenger trains and the opposite sidings on the up side were used by DMUs. Obviously there were exceptions, but I recall only a couple of occasions seeing loco hauled passenger stock in the up side sidings. This would have been during the day - I didn't live in the area so cannot comment on overnight stabling.

 

As regards the parcels dock on the up side, there was usually at least one van there during the day but it was often the same one so I don't know if used for parcels day in day out. The odd DMU used to be stabled there occasionally too, usually for local working to Banbury. But most parcels/mail trains were through workings and used the main line platforms; I never saw vans attached or detached at Oxford, or main line locos in the parcels dock suggesting a working to or from them.

[caradoc]

I believe the main use of the parcels docks behind Platform 1 would have been BR's own C&D (Collection and Delivery) parcels service, which was abandoned in 1981. I don't recall Royal Mail traffic being handled there, this used scheduled passenger services, as did Red Star parcels.

[jamespetts]

Thank you both - that is most helpful, especially as to the use of the the westerly carriage sidings for locomotive hauled trains and the easterly carriage sidings for DMUs - a practice that I had forgotten as, of course, only DMUs use either now.

 

As to the parcels dock, can anyone shed any more light on this? Presumably, the parcels vans there would have been used for something (unlike the two condemned vans that were left to rot there for about 15 years until recently when they were cut up for the expansion of the northern part of the station). Can anyone give any idea what they were used for and how they were used?

 

Photographs of the area at the time, such as this one:

 

 

suggest an abundance of mail/parcels paraphanalia remaining in that area at the time (that photograph is dated 1989), and there was a Red Star parcels office at the end of the dock. Are people sure that there were no Red Star activities using the dock given the proximity of the office? How did Red Star services actually work in any event?

[caradoc]

To the best of my recollection, the big selling point of Red Star was that parcels were conveyed by booked passenger trains, so that both sender and recipient knew exactly (in theory anyway !) when the items would reach their destination. Whereas BR's C&D service used road vans (sub-contracted to NCL) to deliver parcels; Some rural locations were only served three or even two times a week.

[SED Freightman]

As Caradoc says Red Star was a timetabled delivery service using primarily passenger trains, originally it was for direct station to station movements, then scheduled cross London links were introduced and finally it became possible to have the parcels delivered by City Link. The main C&D parcels business operated with rail movements between PCD's (parcels concentration depots) and road collection and delivery. Unfortunately BR were forced to hire vehicles and drivers from NCL for the road legs and therefore lost control of costs and more importantly service quality, a situation which no doubt pushed the catalogue shopping companies towards setting up their own road based distribution networks.

[jamespetts]

Interesting history - thank you! Does anyone know how the parcels dock was actually used in the 1980s, in that case? Was it just used for stabling spare carriages/locomotives? The BRUTEs seem to suggest otherwise. And, if it was used for stabling spare carriages/locomotives, what was the purpose of stabling them there?

[rob D2]

Maybe it was a convenient way to swap the locos off trains at times, there was of course a small depot here.

 

I think Brian Daniels is the man you need to ask as he was based here in the period I think ?

[jamespetts]

Interesting - Brian, if you are reading this, your memories and information would be most welcome.

[brian daniels]

I am hopeless on dates when things stopped or started so can't remember when the parcels service finished. But the two dock roads were used for loading and unloading parcels until that was withdrawn. After that you might have got a DMU stabled or a loco for an hour or two. But in 1991 at least it was used to stable the Bicester MoD train if it was a little un before we took it to Lawley Street then if memory serves me right. The Down C.Sdgs were indeed mainly for terminating trains to reverse in be they loco hauled or DMU. The up C.Sdgs, Jericho Sidings, were used for overnight stabling. I remember down evening loco hauled trains going down to Oxford North Jct and crossing over into the up loop and then reversing up the loop and through the groundframe into Jericho Sdgs with a shunter in the rear ready to turn the butterfly if needed! RES Parcels did indeed use the Down C.Sdgs to attach vehicles.

 

37 in 1991 stabled.

 

 

47 on RES service in Down C.Sdg in 1991

 

[jonny777]

I am hoping that this photo from 24th June 1990 might help your quest. 

 

 

[jamespetts]

Interesting indeed - I see that the locomotive hauled trains were stabled with the locomotives attached at the front. Do I infer from this that there was at the time no separate locomotive stabling facility?

 

Also, I had not heard of this Bicester MOD train before - can anyone elaborate on what that involved? This seems interesting.

[Rugd1022]

The locos would be attached to the front for the return working James, with the locos being fuelled and serviced at Old Oak overnight or early in the morning there was no need for them to drop onto the stabling point at Oxford. There was and still is a direct route from the down carriage sidings to the up platform so once the run round move had been completed they were ready to move back into the station ready fro departure.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Rugd1022

[jamespetts]

Interesting - thank you. That implies that there was a stabling point at Oxford; is that correct? If so, may I ask for what it was used?

[Rivercider]

Until 1974 the depot at Oxford (OX) had a small allocation of class 08 shunters.

08596, 08640, 08803, 08835, 08941, which were re-allocated to Reading (RG) during 1974, although of course some were still outbased at Oxford

 

cheers

[Rugd1022]

It was used for stabling and fuelling locos James, this is the last photo I ever took of it in October 1988, taken fro ma train on the up main approaching the station...

 

 

Brian has a large number of excellent photos of the SP area, check out the link in his signature...!

 

 

[jonny777]

Some down services were routed into the up platform, as can be seen here with 47632 in 1986. 

 

 

[SED Freightman]

Interesting history - thank you! Does anyone know how the parcels dock was actually used in the 1980s, in that case? Was it just used for stabling spare carriages/locomotives? The BRUTEs seem to suggest otherwise. And, if it was used for stabling spare carriages/locomotives, what was the purpose of stabling them there?

 

If the photo (31 + GUV's) was taken in 1989 then C&D parcels traffic can be ruled out as it finished in 1981. I would hazard a guess at mail traffic (maybe someone has a WTT that shows a terminating / starting service), which would not necessarily have been handled at the parcels platform.  If the photo had been taken slightly earlier they could be newspaper vans waiting to go back to London, but I think this traffic ceased in 1988.  Newspaper traffic would explain the retention of BRUTE's on the platform, although they were often just abandoned after C&D parcels and Newspaper traffic ceased, particularly if the space was not required for anything else,  until eventually being sold for scap etc.

[jamespetts]

Interesting - thank you all, that is most helpful, especially the picture of the stabling point from 1988.

 

Can anyone shed any more light on the mail/GUV situation?

[brian daniels]

Some down services were routed into the up platform, as can be seen here with 47632 in 1986. 

 

 

100958.jpg

 

Evening commuters used this to access the up/Jericho C.Sdgs direct and then leave the stock there and engine to shed.

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Banger Blue]

I have a WTT from May 83 - May 84.

 

The only service I can see that starts from Oxford is the SX 4B11 05:50 Parcels to Moreton-in-Marsh which is formed from the 5A11 04:35 ECS working from Reading DMU Sidings.

 

Other parcel workings which call at Oxford:

 

MX 3V15 02:00 Birmingham NS - Reading (Mail). Oxford booked 03:16 - 03:20

 

3V19 04:50 Banbury - Old Oak Common empty NPCCS. Oxford booked 05:22 - 09:35

 

SX 4V49 20:49 Leamington Spa - Reading (parcels). Oxford booked 21:43 - 21:55 (conveys Mail between Oxford & Didcot)

 

SX 3M15 20:50 London Paddington- Birmingham NS (parcels). Oxford booked 21:56 - 22:01

 

On Sundays there was a 3A88 08:20 Oxford - Old Oak Common empty NPCCS.

[jamespetts]

Excellent - thank you both very much. Extremely useful.

[Fat_Ninja]

As I remember it in the mid 90's there was a northbound parcels train which got to Oxford around 18.30 during the week.  As a kid, I used to try and hang on to see that arrive before rushing home, as it was one of the few times you might get a 31 at Oxford, although a 47 was more normal.  It was the usual mix of BG's and GUV's, but made a nice change from watching NSE 50's all day and the odd freightliner hurtling through.

 

The Royal Mail guys used to turn up around may be 17.30 and start placing the cages of mail at points along the platform in preparation for its arrival.

 

I think by then the bay platforms other than the Bicester one were out of use as I remember them, with the CCT van the only real resident and the stabling point all but disused.  May be something parked up at the weekend, but it was never the NSE locos from the London trains, it was normally a random, may be something from Cowley or Bicester?  The last 08 disappeared around this time, probably coinciding with the closure of the scrap yard on the south-side of the station?

[Fat Controller]

I have a WTT from May 83 - May 84.

 

The only service I can see that starts from Oxford is the SX 4B11 05:50 Parcels to Moreton-in-Marsh which is formed from the 5A11 04:35 ECS working from Reading DMU Sidings.

 

Other parcel workings which call at Oxford:

 

MX 3V15 02:00 Birmingham NS - Reading (Mail). Oxford booked 03:16 - 03:20

 

3V19 04:50 Banbury - Old Oak Common empty NPCCS. Oxford booked 05:22 - 09:35

 

SX 4V49 20:49 Leamington Spa - Reading (parcels). Oxford booked 21:43 - 21:55 (conveys Mail between Oxford & Didcot)

 

SX 3M15 20:50 London Paddington- Birmingham NS (parcels). Oxford booked 21:56 - 22:01

 

On Sundays there was a 3A88 08:20 Oxford - Old Oak Common empty NPCCS.

3V19 was probably empty newspaper vans.

4B11 was probably the stock to form an early departure from the Worcester branch, being used to convey newspapers.