Little Loco Company - Kits

[The Nth Degree]

I recently commissioned a test etch for the next generation of my kits. They now no longer have any connection with the original Right Price Railway kits and are entirely my own designs. In fact, the original tools and some of the patterns have been destroyed. If you have an original kit or one of my re-issues it is now officially rare!

 

Today I received the etch from the test artwork. I can see I've made a couple mistakes (which I guess is the point of a test) so they will be corrected. Other than that I'm quite pleased and keen to build it. I hope to make a start on it over the weekend.

 

 

Another reason I'm quite excited is that I'm testing out a new tool to produce accurate louvres for the bonnet. I thought of using a die to compress using a bench vise. Here, I've removed the tool and the test panel and compressed one side to provide a comparison of pre and post effect. The panel is at the top, and the louvres has be stamped at the top of this panel. The other side is as etched:

 

 

On the final production etches the bonnet panels will actually be a couple gauges thinner material so the effect will be more pronounced, but you can see that the test has worked. Typically, model louvres are produced using half-etches – something I've never really liked and I was determined to do something about it.

 

Hopefully I'll post a few more pictures of the test build in the next few days. Updates always happen faster on my blog, so please do check it out at www.littleloco.co.uk

 

Steve

[The Nth Degree]

While I'm watching MotD I thought I'd do a bit metal cutting, punching and bending.

 

The frame spacers. This kit is designed to be powered from the centre axle, which also uses the weight of the motor/gearbox to provide the traction for the compensation on the centre axle. The frame spacers are therefore used to provide an absolutely solid base for the outer axles.

Flat:

 

And made up:

 

The rear buffer plate has a prototypical thickness and folds, unconventionally, with the half-etched line outwards. When it's soldered and filed it will provide a neat join.

Flat:

 

Made up:

 

The front buffer plate is also designed to be prototypically dimensioned. Personally, I hate laminating layers of sheet so I've made a box construction. Ideally, builders would solder the front plate on the inside and the rear plate on the outside. This requires minimal cleaning up afterwards – much less than a laminated piece.

Flat:

 

Made up, but not yet trimmed and joined:

 

Finally, the frames themselves, rivets and bolts punched out. I included full-etch strengtheners as I have included a lot of detail on the frame sides which don't then have to be added by the builder:

 

If anyone can see any flaws or suggestions to make it better or easier to build I'm all ears.

Steve

[Kenton]

Interesting approach to the buffer beams. And I think considerably more difficult than the more usual multiple laminations. Though there is potential for filling with liquid lead to add weight, there is also potential for damage to the "box" structure. Is there an unseen by me reason for that route of design?

 

I also have similar build concerns over the frames. It looks like this is a lamination of two long parts for each frame. As you know laminating long pieces of metal is fraught. Expansion rates tend to distort and the quantity of metal soaks up the power of the iron being used. This has the potentil1a to take the two pieces out of alignment or even to distort.

 

I am trying not to be negative, just expressing my concerns.

 

Alright, I give in. Those louvres really do look the business.and no I have not guessed the prototype yet

[JeffP]

I have.........but only because I followed this elsewhere.

 

Can I ask about the holes in the inner frames, why are they there?

 

The louvres look really good. Have you given any thought to supplying them separately for retro-fitting to other etched/cast kits?

[The Nth Degree]

Interesting approach to the buffer beams. And I think considerably more difficult than the more usual multiple laminations. Though there is potential for filling with liquid lead to add weight, there is also potential for damage to the "box" structure. Is there an unseen by me reason for that route of design?

 

I also have similar build concerns over the frames. It looks like this is a lamination of two long parts for each frame. As you know laminating long pieces of metal is fraught. Expansion rates tend to distort and the quantity of metal soaks up the power of the iron being used. This has the potentil1a to take the two pieces out of alignment or even to distort.

 

I am trying not to be negative, just expressing my concerns.

 

Alright, I give in. Those louvres really do look the business. and no I have not guessed the prototype yet

Good questions and no offence taken at all.

 

To provide a prototypically-thick buffer plate to the front I would have needed at least 5 laminations. I would bust a nut doing that many personally, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to do them. You're right though, this did have potential for distorting in the event of a heavy bump on the buffers. I've designed the buffer housings to share the load in the event of a full speed crash. They will be completely self-contained so that no moving parts protrude at the back of the housing, but they will rest against the back plate. If this fails under testing I can include reinforcing collars or beams inside the buffer plate box. I've half-etched a lip around the front and back plates as well as the sides so a perfect fit – even an aid to shaping the corners – is easy. What you see in my pictures is forming the shape in exactly this way with my fingers. To make it even easier I could half-etch the corners, which I may eventually do.

 

The frame outers are majority half-etched to provide plenty of detail on the sheet without having to sweat it on yourself (another chore I don't like doing!). Simply punch out a few details and you're pretty much there. For this to work as intended I needed to provide extra strength to the sides, so I have a webbed plate at full thickness to aid this. It has plenty of soldering holes so that you don't have to rely solely on the edges or ensuring your flux carried the solder to the inner surfaces. You can also evenly distribute your heat application this way too to minimise or eliminate any heat distortion.

 

Thanks for the louvre compliment. They look even better when they have been fully pressed, and will look better still on the material thickness they are intended for. With thinner material I can reduce the space between the louvres to make it even more prototypical in appearance. I'm almost replicating the actual process used to make real louvres.

 

These particular frames belong to the later Drewry Class 04 shunter. I have some early frames ready to go when these ones have proved themselves. I'm also working on the different running plates, which along with the steps and a few other details will be next off the drawing board and on to testing.

[The Nth Degree]

I have.........but only because I followed this elsewhere.

 

Can I ask about the holes in the inner frames, why are they there?

 

The louvres look really good. Have you given any thought to supplying them separately for retro-fitting to other etched/cast kits?

No problem Jeff. The whole plate is there only for reinforcing the half-etched frames. The holes are there to make laminating them together easier and to spread the heat to avoid distortion.

 

Thanks! I haven't thought about supplying the louvre tool separately as I have to design it to snugly fit a panel inside it so that it doesn't move, and the louvres are consistent. When I complete the design of the bonnet the whole unit will be on its own sheet, so it could conceivably used to replace a cast or etched 04 bonnet from another kit.

[Kenton]

 

To provide a prototypically-thick buffer plate to the front I would have needed at least 5 laminations.

Another option, that I have encountered on a kit before, is to use a whitemetal or milled block between the outer laminates. But these both have their own issues. Mostly involving heat.

 

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense.

[The Nth Degree]

After a mix-up with the seating arrangements for the planned picnic today I gallantly volunteered to be the one to stay behind. That gave me the opportunity to quickly stick together the frames. If I was building it properly I would have ran a file over the important surfaces (top of the frames, for example) and would have soldered it. For this test build demo I'm glueing it – shock, horror. I got two test sheets so I will solder the other one. I may have time to fix the brake cross shaft bearing housings and the jack shaft bearing housings on later today.

 

[Michael Edge]

In my experience holes for laminations like this are a thoroughly bad idea. What actually happens is the the metal expands locally and the outer layer sinks or wrinkles near the holes. For most purposes it's simply unnecessary, running solder around the edges is sufficient. With a little heat the solder runs right through by capillary action.

[The Nth Degree]

Thanks Michael. The reason I chose this method, other than what I've said previously, is that I've seen it used successfully in other model building (ships and an aircraft) where large areas of detailed sheet were supported by the thicker web. It was very effective and I didn't see any of the dips or distortions you mention. I will definitely solder the other version once I've completed this test fit. The material I chose for these parts of the kit is 0.55mm nickel-silver at full thickness, so is thicker than most kits available and less resistant the warping under the temperatures we'll solder at.

[Kenton]

Another note to self for today - "Do not use my usual (preferred = RSU) or alternate (2nd preferred = solder torch) method for soldering these laminates." Though these methods work just fine on the multiple layer buffer beams in the JE kits.

[The Nth Degree]

Ha! I'm not sure about an RSU, but a torch should be OK as long as you don't keep the flame on longer than is necessary to flow the solder.

[N15class]

I think I would tin and then hold together with bulldog clips. Then heat over the gas cooker. If it is all warmed up at the same level you get less distortion. It is bits at various temperatures that lead to most bending.

[The Nth Degree]

Another thing I wanted to experiment with was making pattern masters with etches. The perfect candidates for these were the bearing housings for the brake cross shaft and the jack shaft. To achieve this I hoped to use layers to build up the detail. Unfortunately the jack shaft bearing etches didn't work – the tags I used were too thin and the parts fell out:

 

 

However, the cross shaft seemed to have held, even though the tags I used were the same size:

 

 

By using a 1mm rod in two corners I could ensure the layers were aligned when I fitted them together. Here they are, in this case they are glued, but the final masters will be soldered and finished with a file:

 

 

Once removed from the jig and the ribs chamfered off they begin to look like the real thing. Apologies for the poor photography, but I can assure you it looks OK, and will look perfect once filed. Even the bolt heads have been etched as bolt heads, not just lumps.

 

[The Nth Degree]

On the general subject of bearings, the axle bearings supplied in this kit will be custom-made. One thing I just don't understand about this scale – and many smaller scales – is the size of the bearings that seem to be the norm. In my eyes they are unnecessarily oversize. I think Martin Finney is correct by using closer-to-scale axles and finer bearings, otherwise the bearings take up too much of the available frame width and side detail. They tend to push the frame widths closer together, but I wanted to keep this kit as close to prototype as possible. In 0 gauge the frames are narrower by only 3mm, and in Scale 7 only 2mm. This still leaves approx 1mm total sideways movement for the centre axle.

[The Nth Degree]

Here are both parts fitted:

 

[JeffP]

This is VERY interesting, it's like watching a model being born.

I'll be on the lookout for one when they are released. What has happened with the 03? it's 03 louvres I'd be after.

[The Nth Degree]

Thanks Jeff, the 03 will follow immediately after the three variants of the 04, so hang tight for a bit!

[The Nth Degree]

While watching Juve beat Real I thought I'd complete another little job from the kit. The sandboxes looked a quick 10-minute job folding up. I've designed them like the front buffer plate box – that the corners are half-overlapped so the join will be snug and require minimal finishing. Here they are in the flat, you can see the half-etched edges if you look closely:

 

 

The trouble is, I was wrong – it wasn't a 10-minute job at all. The fit is great, works a treat, so the design needn't change. The problem is that they are so difficult to fold! What I thought was a quick job turned out to be an hour and a half of metal wrangling. Lesson learned – I just move these pieces onto a thinner sheet. Here they are after spending almost an hour a piece folding them up:

 

 

If they were on thinner material I could have closed up the gaps and glued them shut. The fit of the edges is great though!

 

In the next couple days I'll fix these onto the frames, along with some extra detailing – buffer plate angle iron return and running plate supports. Then it's on to another gamble experiment – the brakes.

[Kenton]

 

If they were on thinner material I could have closed up the gaps and glued them shut. The fit of the edges is great though!

 

It seems that the precision etch of these edges are critical. A note in the instructions perhaps to warn of not using the usual tidy-up of running a file over the part's edges after removal from the fret. I also wonder what the impact on the etching would be of moving to a thinner sheet - does this result in removal of more material from the parts, effectively generating less of a cusp and reducing their size?

 

Some really innovative thinking going into this. Great also to see the process of conception rather than simply a build.

[The Nth Degree]

Good points Kenton, I will note that down. I'll see what other differences arise from making them out of thinner material, other than making them easier to fold.

 

And thanks! I've got a few more experimental things coming up when I get to the bonnet and cab. Running plate after the frames though.

[JeffP]

I've a feeling this will alter a lot of folk's ideas on etched kits.

[The Nth Degree]

Thanks Jeff, we'll see. I don't want to upset any apple carts, I'm just trying to design a kit that I'd like to build and not bore me with frustration! So far everything has worked out well and the fit is good. If I had more time for this particular test I would have soldered it, but I should have some time coming up in a couple weeks. Luckily I got two frets done. Although I have three Connoisseur J tanks I'm also building!

[JeffP]

Ah......don't get me wrong here.

 

what I meant was this thread will alter the way people look at etched kits since it gives an idea of the design process, the constraints, the trials that don't go so well, the time taken to make it buildable etc.

 

Perhaps folk like me won't be so quick to say, "What price???????"

 

Thanks anyway.

[Kenton]

 

Perhaps folk like me won't be so quick to say, "What price???????"

 

Perhaps.

Or more likely "What price! For that old, poorly designed kit?"

Or alternatively "What price? How can they possibly produce such a good kit so much cheaper than the rest?"

(I have examples of both in mind)