Godstone Road - Platforms and 3rd Rail

[Lacathedrale]

Hm. The long island platform is certainly a common trope for small termini around this neck of the woods - just off the top of my head there's Hayes, Bromley North, Caterham, etc.

 

It does end up being very close to the board edges when I lay it out that way in Xtrkcad, and raises some questions about the use or practicality of the aggregate headshunt that truncated, but it does work jointed up to the rearmost platform road (please excuse the rather indelicate confluence there and just imagine something nice and sweeping):

 

 

Rather than a crossover, the end board could just be a turnouts to provide connections for the two platform roads to the two adjacent runadounds.

[Lacathedrale]

Here is the above plan in Templot format:

 

 

I think it looks quite nice, and I think I might go that way - I now realistically have two instead of three platform faces, but I'm not sure how much of a problem that is - I am after all operating by myself.

[Siberian Snooper]

I very much doubt that from your viewpoint it will make any difference, in fact it may enhance it from an operational point.

 

ALL you need now is your order from C & L, otherwise you will keep changing your mind, until you actually make a start.

[Lacathedrale]

Yep, I chased Phil today on that exact point this morning and apparently it should be shipped 'next week'. Now I just have to sit on my hands for a while!

[Lacathedrale]

I decided to go outside and see what would be involved in putting the layout up on goalposts or ply boards. Unfortunately, I realised that all of my modules are 16" rather than 18" deep - which explains why the gravel siding was so close to the rear of the layout in the above shot. Not only that, but I realised that if i wanted to use ply boards I would have to re-do literally every piece of benchwork I've done so far.

 

I took the dog for a walk and spent an hour muttering to myself, and realised that the first thing to do was validate the plan fits nicely on 16" boards (it does, with a slight tweak to the platform angles) and whether or not the difference in elevation on the boards would be enough. The following is a 3D mockup showing the sub roadbed and ballast height around 1/4" above the datum, and the full 9mm below. I think it looks pretty reasonable, bearing in mind we are less than 100' away from station platforms looking along the length of the line:

 

 

I also did a very very quick mock up of how this would look joined to a scenic extension board that was dropped, and I think that too looks pretty good (yes, I'm aware that there needs to be a much more shallow gradient at the front!) and overall the idea works without having to resort to a full rebuild:

 

 

In my mind's eye that road curves around off the layout and provides access to the erstwhile goods yard (upon which that 'orrid corrugated warehouse building is now sitting at the end of the gravel line).

 

Lastly, some kind of notional sketch about how the full layout might look:

 

 

Unfortunately the whole plan needs to be printed off again before I start cutting the sub-roadbed since all the alignments have changed, so I guess I'd better get on that

[Regularity]

Just cut some 2”x1” timber into spacer blocks the height of your framing. Screw/glue them to the existing baseboard side, with the 1” face as the joint and arrange vertically, at 12” intervals, then put a piece of ply along the front of those.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Simon, I was midway through getting the below done so I didn't take it into account. That said, I think it's reasonable - the following photo shows the station approach, notional gravel warehouse and sleeper-built aggregate store to the left and shallow gradient towards Charringtons on the right:

 

 

The track bed will be an additional 5mm ontop of this, and the ballast a further 3mm - so I think in terms of profile that's fairly reasonable. The cutaway doesn't represent any kind of end result, just the maximum depth - it'll definitely be much more smoothly contoured.

 

I also for the first time set up some baseboard locating pins and locking catches and the whole thing works a treat, too:

 

 

I'd like to get some actual modelling done instead of yet more baseboard fabrication, but I think I need to seriously consider how I'm going to support this - in my loft it'll just need to sit on some rails (L-girder?) but in the garage (and potentially at an exhibition) it'll need something else. Maybe another pair of sawhorses would be the easiest option, but not a cheap one!

[Regularity]

You could make some box beam girders, with a telescopic piece forming an internal fish plate.

Use something like a piece of 2”x1” as the “fish plate”, build the boxes to size around that, using ply. ¼” would probably do for the deeper sides, with some rectangular mouldings for the and bottom pieces, assuming you can get some close to the desired width or can machine/plane them to size.

Not done this directly, but my go to method for folding legs involves 2” wide strips of ¼” ply, and ½” x ¼” mouldings, glued together and assembled with staples while the glue sets. They are extremely rigid and very light.

[Lacathedrale]

Interesting idea - I can't really picture the legs (but the trestles I'm using were actually only £20 each so maybe just worth buying another pair rather than fabricating with £30 worth of wood).

 

If I understand your idea correctly, it would look something like this, where the red section slides into a corresponding hollow creating by the next beam's yellow/green box?

 

 

I was having a right mare balancing just two of the baseboards on my trestles as it stands, so I definitely need some kind of solution. When/if it goes into the loft I can just build a very rudimentary 2x4 frame screwed to the joists/floor but I don't want to limit myself to only having it up there.

 

EDIT: Officially renaming the layout to Godstone Rd in line with the suburban, rather than urban nature - and that I'm ripping whole pages out of Purley

Edited October 20, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Regularity]

Yes. That’s what I meant.

A picture truly is worth 1,000 words!

[Lacathedrale]

If I had legs/trestles under the 'fishplated' joins then that would make sense, but then the beams can only be as long as the modules, and so at that rate I may as well just put the modules on trestles, right?

 

Battleship grey all over the traverser and to very first pass at gradients. I had a pot of 'Chocolat' so went over the polystyrene just for effect. Not bad, the entire paper area will get a layer of 1/8" cork, and another 1/8" under each track. I think for the platform module I'll just lay a sheet of 1/4" ply cut to size to bring it up to the same height. The left/rear of the board next to the what I'm tentatively describing as a warehouse for the gravel yard may hump up and then down towards what could be some kind of access route from the bridge in the scenic extension.  Purley (again, sorry!) has most of the goods yard taken over by the gravel site, and the outermost siding has become a tiny, truncated cripple track backed up against the retaining wall - maybe something to model, given time and opportunity.

 

 

 

One of the reasons I initially steered away from the BR Blue period was that I wanted to run a train or two with fiddly linkages and big drivers - and I just realised that 7P Oliver Cromwell was on a railtour in Bromley South (in the area where the layout is set), so maybe that's a chance at some future date. Here's a video I took on a dreary Feb morning:

 

[Regularity]

St. Merryn uses this concept, with beams longer than baseboards and just two trestles (IIRC!)

There needs to be tight fit, and I was thinking of bolts through the inner fish plate.

 

Anyway, if you are happy with trestles, then use them.

[Lacathedrale]

That could be a good idea - I think my car is limited to about 7' though, and I'd need at least two pairs to support the fiddle/throat/platform modules. I may give it a test run to see how it works just for a try, though.

 

Now the modules are mostly structurally complete and I'm still sitting on my hands for both stock and track, I went and found a highly rated shop on eBay and picked up two big rolls of 2mm and 3mm cork, so that should do the job nicely for the last bit of ground contouring. The 3mm will form the main running surface (fettled in with filler/etc. on the edges), and the 2mm as an additional shoulder underneath the tracks themselves. I'll leave off the extra 2mm on the sidings and runaround tracks just for some height variation.

 

For the platform, I reckon some 18mm ply packed out with scrap 2mm cork offcuts underneath should get me about the right height, with a bit of lee-way for paving slabs or some kind of textured surface.

[Siberian Snooper]

To get things moving, why not start constructing some of the buildings or if you have printed the track plan and stuck it too the baseboard, you can start roughing out the scenery.

[Lacathedrale]

Not a bad idea. I've found some more hattons deals for stock for the layout so the Lima 33 will be joined by another Lima model, a Class 37 (primarily because the model was super-cheap as it was missingcouplings, and was converted to P4 and not repainted - all things I'd have to change anyway with any model so...). I also got a HEA and a PGA - so both my rail served industries now have some notional rolling stock.

 

I think the next stage of layout construction will be laying the sub roadbed and the platforms, and using some filler to add ground contour.

 

Structurally there's not a huge amount - just that retaining wall made of sleepers between the gravel track and the gravel piles, and whatever warehouse/shed building goes at the end. I was planning on using the Purley-style between the rail conveyor, but almost all modern aggregate customers have a shed spanning the line and a drop chute underneath. Something like this:

 

 

 

The coal siding will just be some hard standing and a conveyor, maybe something more elaborate later on...

 

EDIT: Hattons 'couldn't find' some of the Mk1 coaches I ordered so hopefully now that's sorted, and I've bought enough wills sheet to build the above.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Well, I'm looking forward to when (if?) Exactoscale get established - less said the better on the C&L front, I think. I'm also a bit annoyed that it's all radio silent from the EMGS. I wonder if all is OK there?

 

In slightly better news the Hattons packages with all my dodgy old lima gear should be arriving today - so finally FINALLY there will be some modelling. I also found Kathy Millatt on YouTube and have been voraciously consuming her guides on scenics - tile grout and sculptamold on their way from Amazon, as well as some Wills sheet for the Ardingly gravel shed.

 

Joined DEMU and was pleasantly surprised at the ease!

 

I'm going to be using Hayes and Bromley North as inspirations. The former shows the broad colouring and 'new' NSE bits I'll be looking to include:

 

The below shows Bromley North a little earlier and is alot more similar to the track-plan I have ended up with. There's lots of ex-SR bits still in evidence such as a the lampposts, shed but it does raise some questions. Why are there no signals on the gantry? Why are there bottles of gas by the platform loop?

 

The stumpy canopies on both seem very modelable, I'm planning to stop the layout just at the bufferstops so the concourse and station building can come later, along with the other end of the platform loop.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I would guess the gas cylinders are propane for the old fashioned point heaters?

 

I also just noticed that there is a signal on the left leg of the gantry, just visible next to the emu.  I wonder if this is a bridge for carrying wiring, like you see on the LUL lines.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Lacathedrale]

This 1967 shot shows at least one signal on the gantry (the girders are a footbridge over the station throat)

 

 

 

The facing direction shows off those funny lamps and the retaining wall for the coal bins with some 16T minerals behind. Maybe I should use bins instaed of a conveyor for Charringtons??

 

 

Here's an early 60's shot which shows the same gantry, seemingly bare again but with a semaphore infront of it. There is a real sense of ennui looking at this goods yard pictured below, and the odd truncated domestic coal siding in the 70's picture above - but that's exactly what I'm modelling on Godstone Rd so...

 

 

Lastly a 90's picture showing a little more detail:

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

haha so what I thought was a signal, seems to be a trackside cabinet coincidentally in line with a bracketed platform from the mystery girder thing.

[Joseph_Pestell]

No, I think that's definitely a signal on the post of the gantry.

 

Looks as though the signalling has been reduced to the extent that trains can only use the one platform (it's mostly just a shuttle service to/from Grove Park).

 

Your plan is rather more like Hayes (which was my local station for 12 years).

[Lacathedrale]

Yes there definitely is a signal there, it just happens to be missing in the early 60's shot with the Semaphore - either that or the trackside cabinet is floating above the platform edge in my first photograph.

 

Certainly the modern signalling has been reduced (in a recent YT video I just saw two three-aspect colour light signals, one above the up platform and the other mounted on the side of the gantry - what I'm confused at is that even on the early shot there's just one bloody semaphore (and one ground signal, to the right of the loop road?) - surely the rest of it had to be somewhere and it can't be much closer to the photograph since he's standing on a footbridge.

 

Joseph, I'm glad you think so - I'm hoping to bring a good deal of the Hayes flavour too - particularly the woodland coming right up to one of the platform roads. I've driven around the outside of the station a few times but never actually made it inside, the same as Bromley North.  I quite like the look in that desolate 70's shot with some grass on the platforms and old SR bits laying around - including the coal siding. In the NSE-liveried shots (undated and probably the 90's) both stations are pared down to almost nothing.

 

The 1969 OS Grid map shows the coal yard and goods shed, and an end-loading dock adjacent to the platform roads: https://maps.nls.uk/view/102909661 - I think they got some bits mixed up because they're marking the signal post as on the platform, and the tiny concrete hut as a signal box - and in the 1967 shot above (the class 73 railtour) the goods lines have already been lifted and replaced with the coal yard right up against the platform loop.

 

EDIT: while I can't use the sleeper-built coal bins (since coal would have been arriving in speedlink HEAs by that point) I can use it as an example of how my gravel piles will sit in relation to the bay platform road. The gravel building is going to be modelled on Ardingly but positioned more like Botley, as below:

 

 

(In fact, almost identically, if you imagine that the platform opposite where the '73 is was a bay, and the aggregate piles were where the trees are)

Edited October 24, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[73c]

If I'm passing there on Friday, I can pop in and get a photo from the platform facing London if that helps.

[meld]

I can confirm that there are two signals on the Gantry, L334 and L336.

 

L334 is the signal mounted to the side of the upright and L336 is on the horizontal itself.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelmenzies/23664847461/in/faves-70072630@N04/

 

I was looking at them both for 2 1/2 hours last night .

 

Meld

[Jon4470]

Delayed at Purley so I took a few shots of the inspiration for the aggregate works and bay platform, and a short video of it being worked by a local 66.

 

 

 

Before the 2005 rebuild it was a bit more squashed up with a fence right behind where the train is in this photo, which is what I'm looking to emulate on the layout. I will also be using the branch platform pictured here with the SER posts and canopy as a model for that platform too - elegant and very familiar to me.

 

I wonder, what colour scheme would this have been in before it got branded NSE?

 

Lastly, I carried over the Katherine Street name from when this was meant to be a much more urban layout, I don't think it particularly matches the suburban nature that it's ended up as. Do I go with Godstone Road (the name of the abortive 2FS layout based on the same place and time) or Foxley Wood (the name of the area I live in, just up the hill from the station)? I think the latter has a somewhat dry irony given that it's a grimy coal and gravel yard on a run down branch.

 

 

 

Hello

Just had an interesting read about your layout and how the plans are evolving. The title caught my eye as I used to live in that part of the world. I commuted to school through Purley for most of the 1970’s (Whyteleafe South to East Croydon).

 

If I remember correctly (and now feels like a long time ago) the lampposts at Purley we’re reinforced concrete. The woodwork on the buildings was cream but I think towards the late 70s it changed to nearly white. The iron work supporting the canopies.....I think this was cream as well. I don’t think the bases had contrasting colour either. The thing that I do remember clearly was that everything had a coating of brown dust ....rolling stock, buildings etc. It was especially noticeable on the windows in the corners where it seemed to gather.

All the station name boards were the white background with BR typeface style.

 

Typing this brings back a few memories....

 

Regards

Jon

[Lacathedrale]

Cream and brown work nicely - certainly a fresh NSE sign would provide a great contrast. Thank you very much for the insight

 

If I'm passing there on Friday, I can pop in and get a photo from the platform facing London if that helps.

 

 

I can confirm that there are two signals on the Gantry, L334 and L336.

 

L334 is the signal mounted to the side of the upright and L336 is on the horizontal itself.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelmenzies/23664847461/in/faves-70072630@N04/

 

I was looking at them both for 2 1/2 hours last night .

 

Meld

 

Thanks both for this - it looks like that colour shot is a re-tread of the late 60's one earlier on  but this time the coal siding has been removed too - at least it looks like that? Surely there would have been more signals when the coal siding/etc. was there?

 

Lovely album, is it yours? You even got the signal box at Hayes - which I may shamelessly steal depending on how I nail down the era for the layout - maybe a swap-in section for Bromley North's plate layers hut depending on the era.