The Nth Degree Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm trying to find a use for my collection of Minitrix 27s and I thought about the Tilbury Boat Train service from St Pancras. The trouble is all my 27s are green and I'm fairly sure this route was during the Blue era. Can anyone confirm please? Also, as this was a diminishing service (after the Dartford Tunnel opened) would they have pulled old stock or new? SR green or BR blue/grey? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The service had moved to Liverpool Street from St Pancras during the mid-1960s, so before the blue era. The stock would almost certainly have been maroon liveried, as it originated on the London Midland Region. Blue and grey stock would have been unlikely, as the move took place before such stock had been adopted for principal services, let alone a relatively minor short-distance one. The service would have been intended to serve the liner services to the former Empire, rather than the ferry to Kent, so the opening of the Dartford Tunnel would have had little import. Rather, it would have been the transfer of the few remaining services to Southampton which would have sounded the death-knell. The Wikipedia page on the Class 27s makes some mention of them being used on these boat trains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_27) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Lovely. Thanks for the info and link! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm trying to find a use for my collection of Minitrix 27s and I thought about the Tilbury Boat Train service from St Pancras. The trouble is all my 27s are green and I'm fairly sure this route was during the Blue era. Can anyone confirm please? Also, as this was a diminishing service (after the Dartford Tunnel opened) would they have pulled old stock or new? SR green or BR blue/grey? Thanks in advance. Don't forget that the St Pancras - Tilbury route had been in use for boat trains since back in the C19. The diesels "merely" took over where steam had been running for many decades, so your chosen prototype has a fine heritage. In effect, the Boeing 707 killed the international liner business, and Tilbury's traffic increasingly became cruise-orientated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Precisely Olddude, a very fine heritage. One more question on the coaching stock, Mk1s or Staniers or a mix of both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Precisely Olddude, a very fine heritage. One more question on the coaching stock, Mk1s or Staniers or a mix of both? I'd go for Staniers myself, with additional vans for baggage- I did look to see if I could find some decent photos, but none seemed to be very clear. It might be worth Googling 'Tilbury Riverside' and seeing what comes up. A lot of the passengers on these Boat Trains wouldn't have been people either emigrating or immigrating. Many of the ships carrying 'Ten Pound Poms' (emigrants on assisted passages to Australia- very popular post WW2; both father and father-in-law were accepted, but changed their minds) left from there, whilst the 'Empire Windrush', which brought the first large-scale Caribbean immigration, arrived in June 1948. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Very interesting! That could develop into something... Thanks for the info! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'd go for Staniers myself, with additional vans for baggage- I did look to see if I could find some decent photos, but none seemed to be very clear. There's a 1962 shot in 'Profile of the 26/27s' of one of these trains. It only shows the first two vehicles but they're earlier than Staniers (not sure if they're period 1 or 2 but they're the ones with the long rainstrips and big picture windows). That said, Staniers seemed to get everywhere at that time There was another query about this a few months ago, but a search doesnt return it and I dont think it yielded much anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2011 The last time I saw a Tilbury boat train at St Pancras it had a Class 26/27 (or what became one of those classes) diesel in green livery on it - good few years ago that was, oh and it definitely included pre Mk1 coaching stock but I can't recollect what sort of LMS design vehicles they were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks chaps, that's certainly helped with sourcing. And it's all pretty common stuff. Bargain! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Sorry, resurrecting this thread. I can't find a list of coaches to make up this train. Can anyone help? A coach type, quantity and order would be great, in the maroon Mk1 era pulled by 27s. Did they double up engines - double head or push pull? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2011 Sorry, resurrecting this thread. I can't find a list of coaches to make up this train. Can anyone help? A coach type, quantity and order would be great, in the maroon Mk1 era pulled by 27s. Did they double up engines - double head or push pull? Thanks in advance The only ones I can remember seeing at St Pancras had a single loco (hardly surprising as previously they were sometmes worked by a 2-6-4tank). Of coaching stock all I can definitely remember is 'Porthole' stock and other stuff of the Stanier era although I think there might have been some Mk1s in the formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Thanks SM, shame there were no Mk1 exclusive trains. I'm making trains out of my Minitrix and Lima collection. So far I have 3/4 of the CRE pulled by a Minitrix 42 and half of (a guessed) boat train. Lima coaches are shorter than scale which means I could have 10 where only 9 others would otherwise fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobic Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 This is not a modelling or traction/rolling stock point, but I have this evening come across a Swedish Lloyd brochure for passenger ship services from Tilbury to Gothenburg for the period April - September 1953. The boat-train for this service (the "Swedish Lloyd Special)" departed St Pancras at 3.30 pm up to three times a week,. It wasn't only cruise liners and emigrant ships that were served in this way. But why did the service originally run from St Pancras before being transferred to Liverpool Street? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 This is not a modelling or traction/rolling stock point, but I have this evening come across a Swedish Lloyd brochure for passenger ship services from Tilbury to Gothenburg for the period April - September 1953. The boat-train for this service (the "Swedish Lloyd Special)" departed St Pancras at 3.30 pm up to three times a week,. It wasn't only cruise liners and emigrant ships that were served in this way. But why did the service originally run from St Pancras before being transferred to Liverpool Street? Because in 1911 the Midland Railway bought out the London Tilbury & Southend Railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TilburySteamFan Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I have fond memories of the Swedish LLoyd at both St Pancras and Tilbury Riverside. The train consisted of Stanier stock and to my memory rarely had any luggage vans. In the early 60's as a regular visitor to St Pancras I can tell you that the Swedish Lloyd was usually in the platford alongside the Midland Pullaman and often a Peak. The stock was halued into the platform around 12 to 1pm. As to haulage I certainly don't remember class 27's however Stanier 4MT's and Crabs did haul the train to Tilbury. During the run down of steam summer could see train class 20's. from Plaistow. As a resident of Tilbury and frequent visitor to all the London Terminii I always made a point of Kings Cross / St Pancras for "lunch". Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted December 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2014 I've only just stumbled on this topic after looking for reference pics for 4Fs. Barking Station was my main trainspotting location in the 50s/60s and I've vivid memories of these trains, mainly with 4F haulage and occasional Crabs. I certainly never saw any of the Sulzer diesels though by that time I'd moved on to other pursuits on Saturdays! The best source of info I've found is Jim Connor's Middleton Press book ''St Pancras to Tilbury''; there's 2 pics in there of 24s on the boat trains. I've never known of the switch to Liverpool Street either and wonder whether this was only when Fenchurch Street was closed by engineering work. The 308s with baggage cars handled these trains when the LTS was electrified. As an aside, just to show how times have changed, I saw the England cricket team in a boat train at Barking on their way to Australia; the coaches were certainly maroon and possibly Mark 1s. I certainly recognised some of the players including the captain Peter May. There must have been a baggage van on this one to accommodate all their gear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2014 Like Crepello, I have only just picked up on this thread. Class 24s and 27s were used on the St Pancras boat trains. The 27s carried headcode 1E04 to Tilbury. I have not seen a photo of one coming back so do not know the headcode. I cannot confirm if Class 25s were also used on this service but in the days when Cricklewood had both 27s and 25s they did not distinguish between the two classes. Their few 24s were fitted with LT trip cock gear for Moorgate trains and would have been kept on quite strict diagrams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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