18B Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi, Whilst at my mother in laws sneaking a bit of time in the out house room I was kindly given use of to store all my old railway models and mags etc, I couldn’t believe that I’d not spotted the potential for a layout sooner. However, here’s the rub, my wife and I have only recently just had a baby, so time and finances are tight, but the breeze block lined room is bone dry, keeps a very level temperature and is probably able to take an 8x4 foot board with an operating well. I haven’t got the time or finances to build an intricate layout, so here’s (finally) the question. Do I just go for it and build what would amount to one up from a “trainset”. i.e. two ovals, a few storage sidings on one side and a station and the ubiquitous diesel depot etc on the front, or do I sit and pine for the day I can build that amazing model of Westhouses shed I’ve longed for since childhood? (purists, rivet counters and fine scale modellers look away in horror) My intention is to use a lot of the old models I’d picked up from swap meets over the years, that seemed a good idea at the time, and to scour the internet for the keenly priced second hand stuff which with a little detailing, e.g. the classic Hornby grey sectional platforms, with a 4mm embossed brick face added to their fronts and a stone slab affect on top, at least to give them a better look etc, The intention is that I want to be able to go into the room and see a Peak on a rake of Mk I’s, a pair of Twenties on some HAA’s etc, and for cost effectiveness I wouldn’t be adverse to having my Bachman 20 up front with an old Wrenn 20 tucked in behind (un-motered) to give that classic pair of 20’s look. Any one with any thoughts on an 8x4 layout / train set, and how to keep costs down, or what ones thoughts on “train sets” over layouts are, it would be good to hear from you. Regards, Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I've always loved the 8x4 board as a good size for a layout - have a look at the layout plans on the link in my signature for a few ideas. You could easily pick up a couple of sets off eBay for around £50-80 each, add a few buildings and you're there. £20 on a bit of board and a few extras on ballast and glue.... Keep us posted with any updates! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Just been having a search through the net, and it struck me, What is my acceptable standard? Take the Class 101 DMU, for me the old Triang model is far too poor, the new models are truly fantastic, but out of my price range, I have an old Lima 3 car 101, runs well, looks good, and would look just the part running round the proposed train set / layout I’m thinking of. What are other’s thoughts on the quality and price of modern versus classic models? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 http://www.freetrack...ved-Station.php just checking out your plans and really liked this one as it's great for the space, especially as the two short bay patforms would be great for my DMU's. Saw a design once for a similar thing with a freight yard and a motorway over the top of the yard, so only the ends of the loops were visable, the loco's would appear with the first few wagons under the bridge and could then chop off before running into the headshunt only long enough for the longest loco or two times Class 20, and then up an empty roard as if runing round their train etc, it meant a large variety of freight stock could be included without ever really having to have more than 2 or 3 of any one type of freight wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 8x4 is plenty big enough for a baby. Then you can have a room at your house for the railway and you won't need to travel to play trains. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plarailfan Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi 18B, I packed in modelling for a long while, due to being made redundant three times within the space of ten years I've had all sorts of models and layouts over the last 40 odd, years. 8' x 4' isn't too bad for OO gauge, you can squeeze some interesting track plans into that space. 8' x 4' will probably fit into most houses, so if you do find yourself moving house at some point in the future, you may well find the layout will fit somewhere, without being in anyone's way, My view and advice, would be to build a layout as time and money allow. After a few years, you will end up with more models than you can fit on your layout - I think everybody does eventually. Then you can sell off, some of the less desirable models and put the cash towards something better. If there's any car boot sales in your local area, they can be a good source of cheap items - over recent years, I've found a few coaches, wagons and scenic items at very reasonable prices. Even damaged models can often be repaired or used for spare parts. All the best anyway, I hope you have a lottery, or similar, windfall to help the cost of children, foreign school trips and university fees etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 http://www.diy.com/d...e=length_2400mm Just checking out the B&Q 8x4 boards and they do a 25mm thick board, my thinking, (for ease) was to use the Ikea screw on legs that can go under the board and to cit out a central operating well. Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated, there wont be any heavy scenery on top and the room is very dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2011 I would suggest that you avoid MDF. Even if the room is bone dry the methods used to create the layout (ballasting, painting scenery creation etc) are all likely to have a certain moisture content that when placed on this type of board can cause de-lamination, warping or worse. I would suggest that you look at ply (12mm should do fine) and add some framing, this could be ply or softwood. In the end you will have a far better base for your layout, which will give you greater pleasure in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 How about N guage instead? 8x4 could fit a decent length of run in and get close to scale length trains. The new releases from Dapol and Farish are not far off 00 in terms of details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 A good plywood then seems the better choice, thank you. Did a quick search and I think this might be worth printing off, http://www.brian-lam...%20&%20Tips.htm RE: N Gauge, I'm one of those weired people, who when asked which do you model I say both, for I like the period, 1970's to early 80's so I have any scale that fits that era. I started a little N Gauge model called Little Turnton, just basically a 2ft by 2ft to get something running, The idea behind this layout is that I have a couple of boxes of loco's and DMU's in OO that I'd just love to see strectching their legs rather than being in their boxes, even if to start with that means them running on the bare baseboard! At least I can build it up and at least I can sit back an hear that click ity Clack of coach wheels on joints of track and just basically "play trains". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 8'x 4' is better than nothing! I would make it as 4 separate boards rather than a solid sheet with a hole in the middle however. The hole operating well really needs to be 2' wide for comfort and ideally you need to be able to reach all of the layout without leaning on it. Ikea legs are good and strong and only £2 or at least they were when I bought mine - they support an Ikea desk top on which my oval of test track sits (and a lot of unfinished models and junk!) It terms of value, todays models are excellent. for example, a Hornby Dublo 'Duchess' cost over £4 in the fifties which equates to £80-90 in today's money. The difference in detail speaks for itself. Whether today's products will be as long lived I wouldn't like to say. Many of the models first produced in the seventies are nearly as good as today's models. Some are still on sale (as are some from the 50s/early 60s - a few Tri-ang locos and vehicles are still in Hornby's catalogue, though some upgrading has been carried out0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I would say go for it! It may start out as a train set (and whats wrong with that?), when you can play trains when you want but improve it gradually at a pace that suits you. You will be building up your skill base ready for Westhouses one day. A lot of my 1970s Hornby stock is having a second lease of life, I will retire it for a second time as funds permit. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdford Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hi there, I have often thought my own layout would make a good British Layout with a few changes www.xdford.digitalzones.com for your interest but if you care to PM me, I can send you the original article (admittedly from the US) from which my layout plan was derived which can show you how to "grow" it from an oval with one siding to the full design. My email is on the bottom of the page but you may be able to get onto it from this forum. Although I have two loops and a passing siding, I operate it in a fairly disciplined manner as a point to point in my enlarged imagination with branchlines even! Good luck with it whatever you do Regards Trevor Gibbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Regarding the Hornby's 70's stock, around 10 years ago, I visited a few Swapmeets and picked up what were for the time, good models, so my collection is something like, Hornby 110, Lima 121, & 101 Dapol 56, Hornby 47 (bought super detailed) Bachman 45 Hornby 25 x 4 Bachman 25 & 08 (new era models) Now, the 56, 47, 45, and 25 have all been done as new models, but I'd be loath to Part-ex them, to affectively come out with half that number? But after getting this layout (trainset) up and running, will I be banging my head against a brick wall and be ready to chop them in for some loco's that run a lot better? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted September 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2011 Look out for cheap Lima diesels (especially if you're a "blue era" modeller) - they can be made to run acceptably well and many are IMHO still good models which have worn surprisingly well over the years. You mentioned the Lima class 101 - well worth getting one, IIRC the bodies are the same as the current Hornby unit. Detailing/improving an old-but-good model to something nearer today's standards can be very satisfying - and you haven't lost a fortune if it all goes wrong! The one thing I would stretch the budget for is a small selection of "new era" Mk1s and/or Mk2s, the old Lima/Hornby coaches are definitely past it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 RE: the MkI's they really are now the Bee's knees, been checking them out on the net and the "box shifters" they've come down in price and you're right, they really are worth getting and the saving grace for me is that the train I really want to model is the 1983 ish nottingham - Leeds service seen here http://www.railwayhe...hp?image=160977 formed of just FOUR MkI's! through Chesterfield. Half the price of this St Pancras - Glasgow Express, http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=31532 Seen at Clay Cross South junction. Whilst finding a supplioer for the Ply, I didn;t really take on board too much that by the time a two foot by say 3 or 4 foot central operating well is cut out that only leaves a 1 foot wide length either side, could perhaps squeeze a couple of inches out of the fiddle yard side, but it's not as great as I first thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobi323 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 http://www.freetrack...ved-Station.php just checking out your plans and really liked this one as it's great for the space, especially as the two short bay patforms would be great for my DMU's. Saw a design once for a similar thing with a freight yard and a motorway over the top of the yard, so only the ends of the loops were visable, the loco's would appear with the first few wagons under the bridge and could then chop off before running into the headshunt only long enough for the longest loco or two times Class 20, and then up an empty roard as if runing round their train etc, it meant a large variety of freight stock could be included without ever really having to have more than 2 or 3 of any one type of freight wagon. Personally I'm not very keen on curved platforms. To allow for the overhang at the front of the engine and the bogied carriages, the platform has to be a fair way away from the rails. IMO this seems to make the gap in the centre of the carriage unrealistic. I know that some stations have curved platforms and they look great. But pro-rata the curve is not as severe and therefore the extra gap is not as noticeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Yep, the curves on the real thing are a lot more gentle than those on a layout, although I've always wanted to make use of Hornby's curved platform system. That said, on the East Coast, it's a good job the doors aren't in the middle of Mk3/Mk4 carriages, as there could be a serious gap at York and Newcastle! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Good points RE: the curved platforms, I think I may incorporate the idea of having a part hidden station, thus the DMU's can use platforms that effectivly would run into the curved track if they continued, but by being hidden, it wont matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted September 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2011 In 2008 I built an 8 x 4 layout for my nephew which was never fully developed because of a house move. I have attached a few images which show the trackplan. It was very much a hasty, improvised design and if I built it again I would make a considerable number of changes, not the least of which would be to replace the Hornby 2nd radius points with the Peco Streamline small (2’) radius versions. We had no end of problems with derailments on the Hornby points, especially in the depot area. I also used foam underlay which was quickly discarded in favour of cork sheet. The sole use of Hornby set-track was also a mistake, largely due to time constraints, but replacing 2nd and third radius curves with flexible track on certain sections would have improved the overall look. I originally used Hornby power clips for each circuit, but these were very unreliable and I soon replaced them with soldered feeds, connecting the controllers with DIN plugs and sockets. A classic case of more haste, less speed! The staggered platforms were necessary because of the DMU/loco spur on the outer loop. This I would now move this to the opposite end. The depot would also have additional sidings, with additional switched feeds as necessary. You can see from some of the images that our operating sessions were fairly anarchic, with anything and everything possible. The final image was of a session where we were running DCC using my ZTC505. I’m not sure if this will help your thinking at all, but I hope my experience will save you some hassle. The most important lesson I learned was that initial haste invariably meant having to re-visit several aspects of construction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Evening, the pics are great and they really show what can be done in the space. Paper plans are good of course, but there's nothing better than seeing the actual track on the board. Would be interesting to see what an operating well would be like in the 8x4 board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 http://www.flickr.com/photos/25194923@N04/4002710170/in/photostream Here's another 8x4 design with operating well. There are plenty more photos in the same thread, showing different stages of construction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2011 An 8 x 4 layout will enable you to just let trains rip. They can run round while you attend to scenery or model-building, whatever. It's a great deal better than having models stuffed away in their boxes. In due course you may find this actually helps your motivation towards designing and achieving the long-term aspiration of a more prototypical railway, but without the frustration of never seeing a train move. As far as modern models are concerned, the quality of the detail is simply splendid - but there may be a price to be paid. Those same nimble fingers that made the model look good also fitted the mechanics, and I have found more than once that this makes dis-assembly and fettling mechs to be a much tougher task than when things were made in Margate. When they run well, they can be a delight - but if trouble arises, they can be a nightmare to get right without collateral damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thank for the replies, went in there and measured it last and it's actualy 10 foot by 4 and a half! (with a couple of inches either side for clearance). That will allow for slightly longer trains, a more curved line to length and a slightly greater radius to the curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This is giving me some great ideas and hope will help me avoid some costly mistakes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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