Pete Harvey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It looks like the conversion is going well, one thing have you checked the dia of the light clusters compaired to the ones on the 150 cab end as the new ones look way to big a dia. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2012 I've dug out the patterns and moulds from the ones I bult for Royal Mail, these were done about 16-17 years ago and I'm not sure exactly which bit is which now. in the attached photo most are the patterns with one sub-standard cab end moulding. The cab end is hollow with part of the control desk moulded in the interior, the skin over the windows is very thin and easily cut out. The buffer beam is a separate moulding which fits in the recess under the end, next to it is one of the snowplough mouldings (I think). On the left is the pattern for the inner end gangway recess and the power bogie. I moulded all the roller shutter doors and fitted them from the inside. I also have all the same patterns/moulds for the 7mm models. Incidentally the cab at the NRM should be identical in shape to the rest of them - it's a one piece GRP moulding. It was at Litchurch Lane when I was researching this job. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2012 I've dug out the patterns and moulds from the ones I bult for Royal Mail, these were done about 16-17 years ago and I'm not sure exactly which bit is which now. in the attached photo most are the patterns with one sub-standard cab end moulding. The cab end is hollow with part of the control desk moulded in the interior, the skin over the windows is very thin and easily cut out. The buffer beam is a separate moulding which fits in the recess under the end, next to it is one of the snowplough mouldings (I think). On the left is the pattern for the inner end gangway recess and the power bogie. I moulded all the roller shutter doors and fitted them from the inside. I also have all the same patterns/moulds for the 7mm models. Incidentally the cab at the NRM should be identical in shape to the rest of them - it's a one piece GRP moulding. It was at Litchurch Lane when I was researching this job. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 ...have you checked the dia of the light clusters compaired to the ones on the 150 cab end as the new ones look way to big a dia. Hi Pete - yes, the headlight is about right (2mm dia, so 6") but the tail light hole should be smaller (somewhere between 1.5 and 2mm I guess). As the holes won't be visible once the tinted glazing is in, this can be corrected by using a light guide of a suitable diameter when I fit the illumination. I've dug out the patterns and moulds from the ones I bult for Royal Mail... Michael Edge Thanks for the photo, Michael. It would save me a lot of time if you could cast me the underframe equipment (power bogies, battery boxes, transformer, compressor, traction equipment and other bits). I have made a good start on modifying Hornby cabs and the inner ends should be fairly easy to create from the Bachmann bodies, so there's no need to go to any trouble with those. I'll send you a PM; hopefully between us we'll be able to work out how many underframe 'boxes' are needed! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2012 I can do the underframe bits but the power bogie mould is dead - isn't there a suitable bogie available somewhere now? Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='CWJ' timestamp='1325612534' post='570262' I only noticed the blue warning lights on the bodyside illuminated in one image, and that was when the train was moving, so they can't be 'door unlocked' lights like the orange ones on passenger trains... does anyone know what the blue lights mean? Could it be something to do with the burglar alarm? there is a rule in the drivers/signaller rulebook module regards the blue light, will have to have a look what it is from what im lead to believe the blue light is linked to some sort of motion sensor or possibly oxygen type sensor what detects anyone inside the unit, so yeah a burgler alarm of sorts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I can do the underframe bits but the power bogie mould is dead - isn't there a suitable bogie available somewhere now? Michael Edge A suitable power bogie is available from Hurst Models but is out of (and they can't confirm when it will be back in) stock. I have made enquiries with Bratchell models to see if they can supply the bogies as a spare part. Many thanks, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeford2002uk Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Following this link with interest as I completed a 325 unit using a Bratchell 319 kit some years ago (since sold) At the time I used a Bachmann 25 chassis for power but the introduction of the Bachmann 150 and this link has given me inspiration to do another - this time for me! I already had a pair of NSE liveried 365 bodies and I just got the Provincial DCC fitted 150 from Jackson models for £51. I'll have to hunt out the research I got last time, but to everyone else on the link - keep up the good work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks Mike! That's the best price I've ever seen for a Bachmann 150; if you can sell the bodies (or use them for something else) this works out more economically than just purchasing a chassis. No updates today really, I've been away with work and the first 325 driving car has been sitting in the airing cupboard while the (thick!) layer of filler around the cab dries. Regarding bogie sideframes for the power car, Bratchell Models have managed a bit better than Hurst Models by at least responding to my email, but I've still had a disappointing outcome. When asked about the availabilty of spare parts, the chap said that they 'try to look out for their regular customers'; I took it from the tone of the message that I wasn't likely to get anywhere with him. So I'm sorry to say that I won't be spending any money with Bratchell Models, which is a shame as you would think that's the reason they went into business in the first place... but I won't go off on a whinge! Onwards and upwards! Mr Edge, if you're out there, what would it take to make a new mould for your power bogies? Failing that, I'm onto 'Plan D', which is to fabricate my own. Finally, on my travels I was lucky enough to spot a train of Class 325s! Unfortunately it was dark and the train was doing line speed so I didn't get any photos, but it was nice to see the real thing in motion for the first time. Oh, and one of the blue lights was on Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've found the equipment layout drawing, at this distance in time I can't remember which of my mouldings are which. I might have to go to York and have a look at the 7mm model to check! Pencil notes on th edrawing are mine. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks for the drawing Michael, that's really helpful. I have trawled the internet for 325 images and some of these may help you identify your various boxes: Photos of the chopper case side of the PMV vehicle: http://www.railwaysc...p?cat=Class_325 ...and the rectifier side: http://www.therailwa...lusEMU_325.html Driver's side of the DTV: http://www.lightstra...o/railnet1.html ...and the secondman's side: http://www.railwayhe...n=emu|@type=145 Unfortunately the TAV van is very camera-shy; my only photos are of the unit stored at Doncaster with many components missing. This video is quite good though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0sSWZMIrdk (pause at 0:12 and 0:33 for each side of the TAV). Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2012 I had a better idea and looked for the detail photos of my 4mm models, these show the layout of all the moulded parts I fitted. I can't find a mould or a pattern for the small air reservoirs and the compressor module was built up from brass. Also attached a photo of the Hurst models pantograph fitted to these models. I only have good photos of one side of the 325 as built, there was only one completed set outside when I visited. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Michael, I'm going to have to ban you from showing pictures of your models, you'll make mine look rubbish! It's great to see modern stock being built using the level of skill usually reserved for steam locos. Hopefully you will now be able to identify all your masters/moulds, and don't worry about the air reservoirs, they will be easily fabricated. The compressor module will be more of a challenge, but that's all part of the fun. I'll need to track down a real 325 and get some good photos. Thanks once again for your assistance, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2012 Sorry about that but I do get paid for it, anyway glad to be of assistance. I've actually built 10 325s now, a pre-production model for Mott Mcdonald (the original contractors), 6 4mm and 2 7mm for Royal Mail and one more 4mm working model for a customer of mine. I think the last one is the one photographed on Herculaneum Dock as this was the only working model I built.I have to say that I was more than slightly bored with them after all this. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2012 These are the best photos I have of the TAV and PMV, also power bogie and close up of the compressor module. Buffer beam photos posted on the EM thread. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks again Michael, the photos are really helpful. It's much easier to see what's fitted to a new, clean vehicle! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Only managed half an hour in the garage this weekend, but here's a brief photo update: Here is the first driving cab glued to the 150 body using 2-part epoxy. I added strips of plastic at the few points where the bodies line up to give a little extra strength: Meanwhile the chassis has been fitted with the front foot step, folded up out of some scrap brass: The first (rough) layer of filler has been applied around the cab. The skirts either side of the bufferbeam have not yet been formed to the right shape: This consumed so much filler that I took a different approach when fitting the second cab; strips of thin plastic have been curved to shape and glued on to make up the majority of the area needing filling: This second cab was glued on using liquid cement as opposed to epoxy - time will tell whether is is as strong! If it survives the remainder of the construction process it will survive in operation, but if it breaks off I can easily glue it back on with the epoxy. I'll leave the final layer of filler until the remaining major work has been done. At the moment I'm still awaiting delivery of the etches for the roller-shutter doors, and Mr. Edge is making a start on the underframe equipment, so attention will most likely turn to the pantograph well, roof vents or the inner ends. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hi, Looks good to me, starting to look like a 325! Keep going with it! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Typical of eBay, isn't it? I decided to splash out on a pair of Hornby Networker windscreens and light cluster covers, even though they cost me almost a tenner including postage. Within 48 hours, there is a sudden influx of Hornby Networker spares at reasonable prices (I don't know how to do a little angry face but if I did, there would be one here). If only I had had a little patience. I deserve my own mention on the 'eBay Madness' thread... I heard yesterday that the roller shutter door etches are on their way, which is exciting! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I know what you mean about the spares from East Lancs area...not noticed them before then they appear with that lot! Oh Doors on there way are they good news there!! My "plastic" is with Royal Mail, logisitcs didnt work out today!!! Biting on the chomp here... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I decided last night to take a break from scratchbuilding and indulge in a relaxing spot of kit-building where all I need to do is follow someone else's instructions. OK, so a Hurst Models pantograph kit wasn't the most therapeutic choice (!) but I now have a 90% complete pantograph Here are some photos: The parts as supplied. Top Left: Base, Top Right: head, apex, upper and lower arms, Bottom Left: Insulators, Bottom Right: Spring and nylon wire. Everything looks very delicate but is surprisingly strong when assembled. I only broke one part, which was easily soldered back together. And again, with the big bits turned over to show the other side. There were some casting faults on the lower arm which needed to be filled with solder (later). I also believe there is some material missing from the right-hand end where there should be a pivot hole for mounting on the base, but I can't confirm this as the instructions don't make it clear. Looking at the pantograph head from below, one of the two brackets is wonky. However, this doesn't seem to affect performance and isn't too noticeable when the whole thing is constructed. The parts after fettling. Cleaning these and drilling out the holes took up more time than assembly, but if you prepare yourself for the worst it's not too bad. Assembly starts by soldering the apex arms (the bit with the aerofoils) onto the upper arm at a 45 degree angle. There is a slot in each part to assist with this, but they needed dressing with a file for a good fit. A 'helping hands' device is worth its weight in gold when joining fiddly parts like this. The lower arm is added by threading a brass rod (blurred bit on the right) through both it and the upper arm, forming a pivot. The rod is fixed to the lower arm with a tiny drop of superglue on both sides, and when the glue is dry the rod trimmed to length. Now here I couldn't quite follow the instructions. They say that the lower arm should be fixed to the base by running another brass rod through both it and the base, then glueing the rod to the base. I didn't see how this could be done, as there is no hole in the lower arm, but there was a little protrusion where I assumed the hole was supposed to be, so I soldered the brass rod to this. The rod would now need to pivot in the base, but the supports on the base (see first photo) are way too big, being about 3mm in diameter, so I soldered two short lengths of brass tube to them to form a hinge. Finally for today, the head has been added. This rocks freely on the apex arms, but needs to be retained by two short lengths of wire which are soldered to the bottom of the head. After this photo was taken I also fitted the nylon wire which connects the upper arm to the base, ensuring it is at the correct angle relative to the lower arm. Still to do: Fit insulators Set up nylon wire & superglue Fit spring Paint This kit has a reputation for being very fiddly, so is it worth the hassle? Or would it be easier to scratch-build your own (see RBE's excellent Intercity Class 90 thread)? I'll hold my verdict until I've finished this one, but I'd certainly say that good soldering and metalwork skills are a pre-requisite. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I completed construction of the pantograph (except for painting) but although it looks great (thanks to Hurst Models, not my construction skills) I'm struggling to get it working reliably. There are three issues: (1) The head is able to flip right over, which could be a problem as my layout will include 'ski-jumps' where the catenary begins and ends; the pantograph will therefore need to leave and re-enter the catenary with the head the right way up. I have rectified this by adding a brass wire to the 'apex' arms which restricts the amount of swivel to that required for normal operation. (2) The spring, as supplied, spoils the appearance of the pantograph and no matter how tightly it is adjusted, it isn't at the correct angle to lift the lower arm any more than about 30 degrees. Because I will have the luxury of a windowless unit, I intend to fit a spring below the roof, with a small actuating lever soldered to the bottom arm of the pantograph. This will pass through a small slot below the base and hopefully be more subtle than the existing arrangement. (3) The nylon thread didn't seem very effective at controlling the angle of the upper arm, with a considerable amount of 'stretch' apparent. I was just wondering whether or not to replace it when my soldering iron accidentally made the decision for me. I'm now appealling to 'RBE' and others: who makes chain fine enough for pantograph use? It can't be more than about 1mm thick, preferably less. Thanks in anticipation! Photos to follow. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Will instead of a the spring you could use memory wire to rasie and lower the panto I think that "Dagworth" has managed to get this method to work on his layouts. Contact him or try to find the thread using the seartch system. I hope this helps they are a pig to build if you can clean off the extra brass with out the parts breaking. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for the suggestion Pete - I'll have a think about that but I don't need to raise or lower the pan, I'll just have it permanently sprung against the wires. Lovely test coach, by the way. I can see from your photos how I was supposed to attach my lower arm to my base! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2012 I couldn't get them to work either but then I didn't have to, memory wire sounds like a good idea though. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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