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Charlie's Yard

7mm light railway narrow gauge cardboard




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#1 cornamuse

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 22:23

Ok, so it is about time I built something for the rolling stock to, well, roll on.

Provisionally entitled "Charlie's Yard" because it is only 3" long (sorry) it will represent a small interchange yard between a narrow gauge and standard gauge light railway. Charlie is my son, who tends to creep into everything these days...

Total space available - 4' x 9" approx, so 3ft visible and 1ft fiddle yard - I know 1ft is a bit pointless for a fiddle yard, but the rest of the railway space is taken up by my son's lgb/playmobil/Bachmann thomas layout (I know he is only 9months old, but priorities are priorities :D )

layout as below - building on left is station building, on right is goods shed - has the advantage that both are built. Usual overbridge on right to disguise exit from scene, high wall round as for modern WHR Caernafon Station, to give an excuse for the cramped yard and overbridge.

charlies yard.jpg

Given my fetish for card rolling stock and buildings, and the small size of the model, I am thinking an all cardboard baseboard may fit the bill :)

Any suggestions, folks?

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#2 Ian Holmes

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:59

Thumbs up from me for this concept.
There's no reason why you couldn't use card for the baseboard. But I think you'd be best off using something like foamcore as Chris Nevard did on his Catcott Burtle.
With both structures already built at least you know everything will fit on the baseboard with no problems.
I don't think you really need a road overbridge to hide the exit to the fiddle yard, the goods shed is doing an excellent job of that already for the narrow gauge line. Perhaps you could even move the goods shed 3 inches to the right to give you more room for a longer siding. (Three inches is about a wagon length for 7mm N.G. I think.) As for disguising the exit for the standard gauge line... have to think about that a bit more. The scheme is a good sound idea. I'm looking forward to seeing the layout finished.

Ian
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#3 47137

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 18:48

I am guessing the standard gauge transfer siding will be at a lower level ... how about two slabs of extruded polystyrene? A single block of the 2-inch thick pink material sold for loft insulation would be big enough to make two pieces the size of the layout. Cut a rebate in one piece to make space for the standard gauge transfer siding. Then glue the two together ... the result will be light weight and will not need bracing underneath. This would also give you a tallish (4-inch) edge for much of the layout, which might be useful for display if you take the layout to exhibitions. I realise this is not cardboard, but it would be straightforward to attach card parts e.g. the buildings or even card fascia panels using a solvented 'no nails' type glue.
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#4 cornamuse

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 21:00

nice thinking, both, Ta :)

#5 cornamuse

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 22:18

Goods shed and station building ready for installation on the layout.


goods shed.jpg

station building.jpg


Want to get real light railway vibe going on this model.
I think I agree with Ian about the overbridge, not having one would mean I could get rid of the big wall at the back an open up the feel. But how to hide the front track as it leaves? I have very little available depth for anything, too. Maybe a hoarding like the Isle of Man railway used to hide the goods sidings? (I think they did, anyway)

ideas please !!

Edited by cornamuse, 07 March 2012 - 22:18 .

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#6 Job's Modelling

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 13:53

How about a part of the wall of the engine shed showing the inside wall.
Mayby a window to look through.

A hoarding with some billboard advertising is also possible. In what era is the layout situated?

Edited by Job's Modelling, 08 March 2012 - 13:53 .


#7 Stubby47

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 14:24

A big bush or tree, or the remains of a building, so just one wall left viewed from the inside.

#8 cornamuse

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 19:14

Thanks for the suggestions. not sure about era yet - like Col. Sephens, so may head for that era - also have model of him to paint and plant :)
preserved railway is also a favourite...

#9 Removed a/c_Jim Read

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 21:04

Hi CM,

Nice buildings just right for a light railway, something along the lines of the HM&ST at its most dilapidated.

I think a card baseboard would be a great idea, plenty of diagonals to brace it all coated with shellac and it would be as strong as wood. The 2mm grey card from that Alexander Paper Supplies place is very good and easy to cut.

And just an 'if' you have a sloping bit into the station you could have a gravity run round as at Canterbury Road, though I must admit I wouldn't have the nerve to do it :-) Don't hide the fiddle yard at all, scenic it and have it as a full 'frontal one'.

Jim

#10 cornamuse

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 22:11

Gravity run round? tell me more! sounds like a case for elfin safety :)

#11 Removed a/c_Jim Read

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:56

Hello CM,

It works like this; a slope towards the station between the red dots, train comes in loco first, then pushes coach back up the slope, brake on in the coach, loco goes into siding, brake off coach and it freewheels into station, loco out of siding to the front of coach for departure.

Posted Image

The K&ESR used to do it at Canterbury Road where the point was a facing one so the train stopped short of the station and the passengers used to jump out as soon as it stopped and not wait for the kerfuffle while the crew fiddled about.

Must have been great to watch :-)

Jim

#12 Pacific231G

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:02

Hello CM,

It works like this; a slope towards the station between the red dots, train comes in loco first, then pushes coach back up the slope, brake on in the coach, loco goes into siding, brake off coach and it freewheels into station, loco out of siding to the front of coach for departure.

Posted Image

The K&ESR used to do it at Canterbury Road where the point was a facing one so the train stopped short of the station and the passengers used to jump out as soon as it stopped and not wait for the kerfuffle while the crew fiddled about.

Must have been great to watch :-)

Jim

I saw this being done in the 1960s at the lower terminus of the Stubaitalbahn in Innsbruck and it was great fun to watch.

The Stubaitalbahn is a steep metre gauge interrurban line about 18km long. The train from the upper terminus at Fulpmes would stop at the single rail level platform and after the passengers had alighted the motor car would push the two or three trailers a little way up the fairly steep main line where they would be handbraked by the conductor. The motor car would then move into a short spur after which the guard would bring the coaches back down to the platform using the handbrake on the open platform of the first coach closely followed by the motor car which would then couple up ready for the return trip. This was carried out fairly briskly as the line ran a roughly hourly service.

The Stubaitalbahnhof terminus site which was also the line's main depot on the edge of Innsbruck didn't seem particularly cramped so I've no idea why there wasn't a conventional run round loop. There was a direct connection to Innsbruck's urban tramway system that wasn't being but the Stubaitalbahn trains do now use it to run into the centre of Innsbruck. It's possible that had also been the case in earlier years but that there was a period when for some reason they had to terminate at the Stubaitalbahnhof hence the need for the gravity run round. The stock was fairly elderly when I saw it so maybe the urban system had been modernised and for some years the Stubaitalbahn stock wasn't compatible but I'm pretty sure the line was already owned by the IVB the Innsbruck transport authority.

Your proposed layout looks like it will be well worth seeing. How are you going to brake the coach?

Edited by Pacific231G, 09 March 2012 - 11:05 .

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#13 Stubby47

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:08

To hold the coach a point motor mounted vertically ( or wire in tube) can be positioned to hold against an axle of the coach.

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:14

That's a good idea Stubby, with the wire in a looped tube so that it comes out at an angle.

To stop it a 'catch point' arrangement but as a trailing point rather than facing, again a point motor or wire in a tube to actuate it.

The slope being the most difficult thing to arrange. Am I right in thinking that Colin French did it by tilting the layout?

Jim

#15 cornamuse

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:15

Sounds a bit technical, although achievable :)
I think it would be easier to achieve with the standard guage stock than the narrow, as my narrow gauge stock is VERY light...
if I do, the wire in tube sounds best bet. I did have thoughts about a gravity slate train, but was going to cheat using a motorised first wagon :D

#16 cornamuse

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:35

just to prove I have been doing something lately - progress on Charlie's Yard
"baseboards" from layers of corrugated card, glued with pva and held flat by a couple of tables at work...
topped with foamboard

whatever else it has, it aint spacious :) especially as the last 1ft will be hidden :D

guess I will have to cancel the orders for the Garrat and th A4.............

full view.jpg

back down the line.jpg

goods shed and loco.jpg

long view.jpg
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#17 Stubby47

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 00:08

How stiff are the baseboards ? I've thought about using 2 x 5mm foamboard layers with 5mm foamboard strips between them, but am not sure how well that would work on areas larger than A2 sheets.

Using cardboard like you've done could be a viable solution.

Edited by Stubby47, 18 March 2012 - 13:22 .


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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:54

Hello Andy,

I like your Y6 and the wagon in front of it, the layout looks good too, I think the card is a good idea, it'll be really interesting to see how you glue the track down and fix the point operation. I made a print portfolio from box card and layered it like you have it's surprisingly strong and will take 20 16x20 mount boards without deforming.

I live not too far from two cardboard box companies and know a couple of the guys who work there, they use Corn Starch to glue the corrugations to the outer layers, it helps to stiffen it but it will dissolve in water. It doesn't warp though and they have to do tests with large sheets to make sure they get the layer tension right.

Jim

#19 cornamuse

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:11

Hi Stubby,
it is pretty stiff, given that I am up to 5 layers of card and 2 of foamboard in places. 2 layers was definately not sturdy enough, although it might have been if I had laminated it with the corrugations at 90 degrees. I think I may need to give it a very thin skin of something on the botton to protect it, as the card I have used is quite soft. There is certainly no flex, but I wouldn't like to put my knee against it and try to bend, because I think it would :) Once the backscene is built in, I recon it will be pretty robust, as the backscene and baseboards will brace each other.

I am not against using some wood to brace things if I need to, although it would be nice not to. my main worries are - the edges, which are pretty vunerable, and the whole thing collapsing or warping when I try ballsting and get glue everywhere. Sealing the card may solve this, though.

My reasoning behind trying this was:
1) foamboard is pricey, and this is being built on a budget the light railways would recognise (begged card, second hand track left over from other projects.....
2) cheap internal doors are mostly cardboard, with a skin
3) Rex, our school caretaker, is a good mate who always passes interesting boxes by me before recycling them, so I have plenty of big card sheets :)

Jim - thanks for the kind comments - and its the "not warping" that is worrying me. The standard gauge (notice I have wimped out on track building for now - next time, I promise :) ) is glued with no more nails, which I hope has sealed the card under too.

hope this answers
Andy

Edited by cornamuse, 19 March 2012 - 18:33 .

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#20 cornamuse

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 22:04

This week's update: backscenes and main structure finished with some foamboard I had kicking around. will need some extra stengthening, but I wanted to see how it would look. The answer is..... small :) but, as I have never FINISHED a layout before that might be a good thing ...

1.jpg

5.jpg

6.jpg

7.jpg

and to show that I let my son have some model space: Charlie's zoo. Bachmann Thomas, Lgb, and playmobil zoo animals - all in 5' plus fiddle yard (which is behind my model)

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg
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#21 Removed a/c_Jim Read

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:57

Hello Andy,

I like that Brake Van is that to your own design, I would like to know what the wheel base is.

You've got some lucky kids wish I'd had that when I was young! Everytime I go to an exhibition I am always amazed at how adept a 5 year old can be when I let them have a go, they are so enthusiastic even about my old steam outline stuff.

Jim

#22 cornamuse

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:16

Thanks, Jim!

The Brake van is from the PD ans SW railway (Plymouth, Devenport and South Western Junction Railway). 8' wheelbase, so suited my needs as very very short :) - I also liked the look.
I have drawings if you would like them - from the internet, and then mucked around with so I could build it from card. I hacked about a slaters kit for the running gear, before I realised I could make it from card as well!


pdandswj railway brake van.jpg

Charlie is not even a year old yet, so there have been questions about who the zoo is for :) , but I hope he will like it when he is older. He seems to enjoy watching the train move, and tried his best to grab animals to suck (but they are a bit old for him) Have had a 9 year old operating it all perfectly, including the point levers which do operate the points (via cobalt motors) - but I agree - it is amazing how quickly they pick things up. My class at school also like the fact that it is a solid object, not just a picture on a screen, which is promising!

Edited by cornamuse, 27 March 2012 - 11:37 .

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#23 Removed a/c_Jim Read

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:35

Hello Andy,

8 ft!! Goodness that is small I would like the drawing if you would be good enough to email it to me, it would be a nice project when I've done my layout.

Thanks - Jim

#24 cornamuse

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 18:07

I have a salt van too, Garstang and Knott End railway - 7' wheelbase. Another part of my "what is the smallest I can find" crusade :)
My semi finished coach only has a 12' wheelbase. That must have been purgatory to travel in.... that one is from the North Staffordshire railway (pics if requested, or in the event of ever finishing :) )

gandke railway salt van.jpg

Edited by cornamuse, 28 March 2012 - 21:29 .

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#25 cornamuse

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 16:22

coach inspiration here : http://homepage.ntlw...4w_third_61.htm

thing is - I have no idea what the running gear / brakes would be like. Would it even be braked?

nsr coach sides.jpg

sides made my usual way :)








Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 7mm, light railway, narrow gauge, cardboard

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