Wright writes.....

[peach james]

Paul Towers used to ask for a charity donation from people wishing to take photos of his layouts at shows.

 

The worst offenders in my view are those who shoot with flash right into the operator's eyes.

I fail to see how one can do that, (asking for money for photos) in all honesty.  You have dragged this giant assembly to a public location, and then they have paid to enter- so if someone wants to take a photo, and it wasn't prohibited by their ticket, here in Canada, you are then out of luck.  If they manage to sell it for $10 000 or $.01, it doesn't matter- they own the copyright on the photo, not you.  (for instance, I own the copyright on the photos of my father in law's paintings on Flickr, not the copyright on the images...so I could sell the photographs, but not prints of the images, which would belong to his estate & not directly to me).  It's a minefield as to what you can or cannot do, but if you take a photo of something, generally, there is no rights ascribed to the owner of the physical object.

 

Now, rude- perhaps.  Not something which would shock me at all though...think of the # of individuals who take photos of preserved railways, and never donate a dime back to said railway that hires in something special for them.

 

James

[Michael Edge]

The concept of an under-construction engine shed at Herculaneum Dock is genius! I am tempted to copy the idea.  And quite prototypical too, as engine shed roofs were always catching on fire!  Perhaps a near copy would be a shed that recently caught fire but has yet to be replaced?

It's not exactly "under construction", this is the framework of the original roof which was badly damaged by enemy action. The front part was removed completely, much of the rest had missing slates etc. In 1957 (three years before closure) Brunswick was completely re-roofed in the usual BR style and I originally modelled it at about this date when all the covering had been removed. this made it a little easire to see what's inside, although looking from above it's very hard to distinguish an 8F from a 5MT or any of the bigger GC locos from each other. Now the layout has been backdated to 1956 or earlier with the addition of the Overhead Railway I should really put some covering on but i think it would cause too much operating difficulty.

The shed roof caused much amusement when we took the layout to Germany, we were asked several times "why has your engine shed got no roof?", our answer was "Lufwaffe" - and fortunately they laughed. Who says Germans have no sense of humour? There is another piece of wartime bomb damage on the layout, one of the warehouse buildings has a corrugated iron end followed by a gap, this isn't often noticed but one vistor at Southampton did.

[queensquare]

 

The worst offenders in my view are those who shoot with flash right into the operator's eyes.

 

Couldn't agree more. People are welcome to take as many pictures as they like of my layout. It's nice if they ask first but I'm not particularly worried if they don't ask. But please, please, please, no flash. It is intensely irritating having the flash go off in your eyes, rapidly gives me a banging headache and is just incredibly rude and thoughtless. On a more serious note it can be dangerous, triggering some forms of epilepsy - there is a reason for warning that there may be some flash photography in certain news reports.

 

Jerry

[Clive Mortimore]

I have found with model loco sheds the bigger they are the less accessible the locos become. Now not everyone is like Mike and has locos that will start every time when the volts are applied. Many are like me and at times need to resort to the big hand from the sky to bump start the thing. This is where the shed roof being renewed comes into its own. Plus the punters (at operators) can see the locos in the shed.

 

I built one in its rebuilding stage for a club layout, much to the dismay of some members. Only to chuckle to myself when they were able to give their pride and joy a prod to wake it up through the gaps in the girders. Sadly the layout was never finished before being given /sold to a club member who striped the track off and only used the baseboards.

 

With Hanging Hill's shed I found that the locos at the far end never moved, partly because they couldn't and partly because they were forgot about. So I made some models with hatches open and fitters sticking out of them. This gave the impression that work was being done on them when viewed through the windows, and with an ER glasshouse diesel shed something had to be done.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Clive Mortimore

[bbishop]

Couldn't agree more. People are welcome to take as many pictures as they like of my layout. It's nice if they ask first but I'm not particularly worried if they don't ask. But please, please, please, no flash. It is intensely irritating having the flash go off in your eyes, rapidly gives me a banging headache and is just incredibly rude and thoughtless. On a more serious note it can be dangerous, triggering some forms of epilepsy - there is a reason for warning that there may be some flash photography in certain news reports.

 

Jerry

I'm not usually the violent type (well not since retiring from rugby three decades ago) but I have offered to assist a photographer by ramming his flash straight down his throat.  He took offence!  At least, Jerry, you have the advantage of operating at the front so the flash is bounced back from the layout.

 

Bill

[Headstock]

I have found with model loco sheds the bigger they are the less accessible the locos become. Now not everyone is like Mike and has locos that will start every time when the volts are applied. Many are like me and at times need to resort to the big hand from the sky to bump start the thing. This is where the shed roof being renewed comes into its own. Plus the punters (at operators) can see the locos in the shed.

 

I built one in its rebuilding stage for a club layout, much to the dismay of some members. Only to chuckle to myself when they were able to give their pride and joy a prod to wake it up through the gaps in the girders. Sadly the layout was never finished before being given /sold to a club member who striped the track off and only used the baseboards.

 

With Hanging Hill's shed I found that the locos at the far end never moved, partly because they couldn't and partly because they were forgot about. So I made some models with hatches open and fitters sticking out of them. This gave the impression that work was being done on them when viewed through the windows, and with an ER glasshouse diesel shed something had to be done.

 

Hi Clive,

Your petrol tank wagons are very inspiring. They add a level of authenticity that really lifts a model railway project.

[Tony Wright]

Couldn't agree more. People are welcome to take as many pictures as they like of my layout. It's nice if they ask first but I'm not particularly worried if they don't ask. But please, please, please, no flash. It is intensely irritating having the flash go off in your eyes, rapidly gives me a banging headache and is just incredibly rude and thoughtless. On a more serious note it can be dangerous, triggering some forms of epilepsy - there is a reason for warning that there may be some flash photography in certain news reports.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

 

Thanks to you and Kim again for a great time over the weekend - good Scotch, too! 

 

I'm always rather flattered when folk take pictures of my work. The Poppy's chassis jig was photographed umpteen times for instance (the jig is not my work but the set of frames in it are). It is nice, though, to be asked first if the taking of pictures is all right. Like you, I find flash photography extremely irritating, especially if the thing goes off unexpectedly right in your face. I'm in a privileged position in that layout owners are more than happy for me to take pictures of their layouts, but I always ask first and only take them before the show opens or right at the end of a day when there are no spectators. I use flash, but it's only small pulses during, say, a ten or more second exposure. Then, it's only at the underside of models, not in people's faces. 

 

Obviously, the copyright for anyone taking a picture at a show is theirs, though how the intellectual rights pan out if the pictures are subsequently published, I'm not sure. The reason I say this that some pictures appeared of Stoke Summit in one publication and I knew nothing about it. They were obviously taken at a show (whether the picture-taker asked, I don't know) and were hand-held flash shots. The pictures were grim and the subsequent captions were just 'made-up'. I was cross, not because I expected a fee but the pictures didn't show the layout in good light (very poor light, in fact) and the captions were really non-informative. 

 

We are on public display at a show, so if folk have paid to come in and photography is not forbidden (how could it be?), then the taking of pictures of our work is to be expected. I just wish good manners were more common, that's all. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony-intrigued by the P4 B17 using the original chassis, and no springing-is there a contact I can use to follow this up, as I would like to know more about the method used.

Thanks in anticipation.

I should try through the Scalefour Society, at one of their own shows or one that they're attending. Or, visit www.scalefour.org

 

I don't have Dave Hawkins' current details, but he's a member of the South Hants Area Group.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Tony.  

[Clive Mortimore]

The whole debate about taking photos at shows is quite interesting. My comment is where manners are applied then a better photo may be in the offing. When I have been asked "Is it alright if I take a few, please?" as the camera is being waved at me. I will say "yes" and then try and pose the trains for the photo. If the person behind the camera then engages in conversion, I will ask is there any item of stock he/she would like me to drive into view. I have even been known to invite the camera and its person to the operators side so they can have different photos than those who just snap.

 

It works the other way as well, I always ask before clicking and am surprised by the positive reactions I get. I am often asked if there is an item of stock I would like to photograph.

 

I take photos at exhibitions just for my use, I might post them on a forum like this to share my day out.

 

I always remember to say thank you when I have taken my shots.

 

What I do find odd is the few times I have had a "professional" photographer take photos of my layouts for publication, that I the layout owner have no right to use them.

[New Haven Neil]

Oh well, here goes....

 

Impetus Hunslet 16", made by yrs truly about 25 years ago, or maybe a little more?  When the kits were new, whenever that was.  Edit - 7mm scale!

 

It's....not very good, and has some damage.  Please excuse it's HO scale surroundings, that's what my current layout is!  At least the gauge is correct for the HO stock!

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by New Haven Neil

[Focalplane]

There is an important question to consider about copyright and general photographer rights. Where are you standing when taking the photograph? If on public property, I.e. The street, then your rights as a photographer are more liberal, but if you step onto private property you lose that right, even if it is just to photograph a building with no people in the photo.

 

When you pay an entrance fee to a show you may lose the right to photograph, but this right appears to need a statement to that effect. A No Photography sign in theatres is a good example, as are terms and conditions printed on a concert ticket that specify no photography. I have attended concerts where the performers have specifically requested no flash photography at the beginning of the performance.

 

Tony's fear that bad photos of Stoke Summit could end up in the media could be lessened by the placement if a simple small card on the stand stating that permission must be sought if any such photos were to be used for financial gain.

 

But I would certainly agree with Clive's approach assuming that there is no overriding rule against photography.

[Michael Edge]

I have found with model loco sheds the bigger they are the less accessible the locos become. Now not everyone is like Mike and has locos that will start every time when the volts are applied. Many are like me and at times need to resort to the big hand from the sky to bump start the thing. This is where the shed roof being renewed comes into its own. Plus the punters (at operators) can see the locos in the shed.

 

I built one in its rebuilding stage for a club layout, much to the dismay of some members. Only to chuckle to myself when they were able to give their pride and joy a prod to wake it up through the gaps in the girders. Sadly the layout was never finished before being given /sold to a club member who striped the track off and only used the baseboards.

 

With Hanging Hill's shed I found that the locos at the far end never moved, partly because they couldn't and partly because they were forgot about. So I made some models with hatches open and fitters sticking out of them. This gave the impression that work was being done on them when viewed through the windows, and with an ER glasshouse diesel shed something had to be done.

When we took the stock off there were three locos at the back of Brunswick shed which hadn't moved all weekend, this is fairly normal, with five loco spaces on each road it's not always easy to dig them out.

[westerner]

We've occasionally had that problem on Salmon Pastures, at least for a day.

[St Enodoc]

When we took the stock off there were three locos at the back of Brunswick shed which hadn't moved all weekend, this is fairly normal, with five loco spaces on each road it's not always easy to dig them out.

At least you found them before you dismantled the layout...

[westerner]

Did We????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[grob1234]

Hello.

 

With regard to photography at shows, I feel there are several issues at play. 

 

First of all, as another contributor mentions, I do not feel that anyone could stop one taking pictures at a public event where people have paid money to enter the show. I do, however, feel it is simply a case of politeness to strike up a conversation with the owner or operator, ending up with something like: 'the layout looks fantastic, do you mind if I take a few snaps?'. I would say this is perfectly acceptable, and I cannot imagine any reasonable person declining this request. As for the issue of flashes going off all day, then I accept this would be annoying (not to mention other risks like headache etc). Sadly, I think many people would not know how to disable the flash on their camera or phone, or how to set it up correctly for low light hand held photography. As to what to do with the photos, well I would say if I had taken them, then reasonably I could do what I wanted with them. However, to publish them and not give credit or ask permission of the layouts owners is a little naughty, IMO, and again, common sense would dictate that one asks the layouts owners permission before publishing (I am referring to a magazine here). I think posting them on a forum in terms of a 'look what I saw as this exhibition today' format is eminently acceptable, as the picture taker was obviously impressed enough with the layout to want to post the pictures - a credit to the builders surely?

 

Anyway, enough of that and back to modelling. Before Christmas, I asked Tony "what would be a good model kit to begin the hobby of locomotive building?". He kindly suggested the London Road Models J69. Its an Iain Rice kit, its mainly of brass construction with white metal and lost wax detail and I have to say it went together very nicely indeed. Essentially, all the major construction is complete, I just need to fix on the roof (after painting), the smoke box door, and the buffer beam detail. Once some washers have arrived I will finish off the chassis, and wire it all up. Fortunately the large 1428 Mashima fits in just nicely (very snug) accompanied by the High Level Kits gearbox. It has taken me only 3 weeks, considering at least half of that has been lost to work days, and I haven't worked solidly on the kit, then I feel its come together very quickly, testament to a nice kit and also the rapid nature of using solder.

 

Purists may balk at my use of filler (the green stuff), and also epoxy to glue the dome and chimney on (and also the weird box on top with the prongs!), but as I am nowhere near pure, it bothers me not! 

 

Tony, (or anyone else) I do have a question: in Right Track, you mention you use lace pins for valve gear from Eileens Emporium. I can't seem to find any on their website. Do you know of a supplier of these, as I will need some for my next project?

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the J69 sitting sat plonked (!) on her chassis. It may not be perfect and the techniques I used dubious, but it fairly resembles the prototype I feel.

 

 

 

Also, if I may be so self indulgent, I finished the Coronation set as well, there are more pictures on my build thread for anyone interested.

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by grob1234

[Tavy Man]

Hello.

 

With regard to photography at shows, I feel there are several issues at play. 

 

First of all, as another contributor mentions, I do not feel that anyone could stop one taking pictures at a public event where people have paid money to enter the show. I do, however, feel it is simply a case of politeness to strike up a conversation with the owner or operator, ending up with something like: 'the layout looks fantastic, do you mind if I take a few snaps?'. I would say this is perfectly acceptable, and I cannot imagine any reasonable person declining this request. As for the issue of flashes going off all day, then I accept this would be annoying (not to mention other risks like headache etc). Sadly, I think many people would not know how to disable the flash on their camera or phone, or how to set it up correctly for low light hand held photography. As to what to do with the photos, well I would say if I had taken them, then reasonably I could do what I wanted with them. However, to publish them and not give credit or ask permission of the layouts owners is a little naughty, IMO, and again, common sense would dictate that one asks the layouts owners permission before publishing (I am referring to a magazine here). I think posting them on a forum in terms of a 'look what I saw as this exhibition today' format is eminently acceptable, as the picture taker was obviously impressed enough with the layout to want to post the pictures - a credit to the builders surely?

 

Anyway, enough of that and back to modelling. Before Christmas, I asked Tony "what would be a good model kit to begin the hobby of locomotive building?". He kindly suggested the London Road Models J69. Its an Iain Rice kit, its mainly of brass construction with white metal and lost wax detail and I have to say it went together very nicely indeed. Essentially, all the major construction is complete, I just need to fix on the roof (after painting), the smoke box door, and the buffer beam detail. Once some washers have arrived I will finish off the chassis, and wire it all up. Fortunately the large 1428 Mashima fits in just nicely (very snug) accompanied by the High Level Kits gearbox. It has taken me only 3 weeks, considering at least half of that has been lost to work days, and I haven't worked solidly on the kit, then I feel its come together very quickly, testament to a nice kit and also the rapid nature of using solder.

 

Purists may balk at my use of filler (the green stuff), and also epoxy to glue the dome and chimney on (and also the weird box on top with the prongs!), but as I am nowhere near pure, it bothers me not! 

 

Tony, (or anyone else) I do have a question: in Right Track, you mention you use lace pins for valve gear from Eileens Emporium. I can't seem to find any on their website. Do you know of a supplier of these, as I will need some for my next project?

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the J69 sitting sat plonked (!) on her chassis. It may not be perfect and the techniques I used dubious, but it fairly resembles the prototype I feel.

 

 

 

Also, if I may be so self indulgent, I finished the Coronation set as well, there are more pictures on my build thread for anyone interested.

 

You can purchase lace pins from any craft or dress making shop if you have one near buy. Make sure you buy the solid brass pins and not the brass coated ones.

[coachmann]

Photography has become a national pastime since cameras were incorporated into everyone's Mobile. No knowledge necessary either....just point and click. Forty years ago, photography-speak was typically 125th @ f9.3 with fill-in flask on Tri-X developed with little agitation in Guinness 9-to-1 @ 33 rpm on a gramophone.  

[grob1234]

You can purchase lace pins from any craft or dress making shop if you have one near buy. Make sure you buy the solid brass pins and not the brass coated ones.

 

Thank you. Stupid question - are they all the same diameter?

[DLT]

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the J69 sitting sat plonked (!) on her chassis. It may not be perfect and the techniques I used dubious, but it fairly resembles the prototype I feel.

 

 

Looks brilliant to me Grob, and its very rare that you can get away without using the occasional bit of filler here and there.

 

I agree with your photography thoughts as well.

 

All the best,

Dave.

[jwealleans]

The ones I have are 0.5mm,nickel coated brass.  I picked them up from the hobby shop in Ely and so far the pack has lasted me over 10 years.  You can get them on Ebay and Amazon as well - looking at a random sample I see them at .53mm and also .7, so clearly different sizes are available.

[Barry Ten]

Regarding lace pins - I ordered a box of all-brass ones a while ago to help with valve gear, and I've been struggling to get the solder to adhere to them - it seems to want to form a blobby mess anywhere but on the shaft of the pin itself. Suitably defeated, I went back to using rivets - but I must be missing the right technique as it obviously works so well for others?

 

Alastair

[The Stationmaster]

Photography at Exhibitions

 

I first really came across this as a mass phenomenon at an exhibition in Australia in 2004.  Unlike contemporaneous British exhibitions I noticed far more people taking pictures of layouts rather than studying what was happening on teh layout and it was interesting that when I asked various operators if I could take a pic of their layout the result was as much surprise on their part as anything else.  

 

Since then the photography thing has - from what I have seen - also noticeably increased at exhibitions in Britain - often, as Coachmann has noticed, using mobile 'phones instead of real cameras.  There also seems to have been an accompanying increase in rudeness as more & more people don't ask if they can take a picture.  And sometimes I have noticed that having asked if it is ok to take a pic various people in the vicinity seem to assume the affirmative answer also applies to them; just another variation on rudeness in my view.

 

Fortunately at many exhibitions it is not very easy to take pics anyway although some idiots still seem to have a  greater interest in that rather than having a good look at the layout they're taking a photo of.  Simple answer in my view is to make sure basic politeness rules ok and if there is a growing problem that it does not then ban photography at exhibitions and make it clear that stewards and people manning layouts will do their best to enforce that rule.

[LNER4479]

I must be a bit strange (quite likely!) but I've always used Peco track pins to fix valve gear.

 

I quick whizz round with the file to remove the black coating and they accept solder just fine. I always use them from the inside outwards (ie so that the head is hidden at the back of the joint); that way, once the excess is snipped off, the joint can be filed back to give a very neat (and not over-large) finish.

 

Alastair - I assume you're using flux? (I've never had much luck soldering brass without it)

Edited February 4, 2016 by LNER4479

[Barry Ten]

I must be a bit strange (quite likely!) but I've always used Peco track pins to fix valve gear.

 

I quick whizz round with the file to remove the black coating and they accept solder just fine. I always use them from the inside outwards (ie so that the head is hidden at the back of the joint); that way, once the excess is snipped off, the joint can be filed back to give a very neat (and not over-large) finish.

 

Alastair - I assume you're using flux? (I've never had much luck soldering brass without it)

 

Yes, in this case I added flux, although for 90% of my soldering I just use Carr's solder paste straight out of the syringe which works remarkably well as it is. I wonder if I'd have had more luck filing the pins to start with - maybe there's some laquer or something on them.