Realistic Backscene(s) of South Wales Valleys?

[steveNCB7754]

Hi,

 

This is my first ever post on RMweb, so here goes;

 

 

The late 1960's/early 1970's 'OO' layout I am working on, is inspired by the Mountain Ash area in South Wales.  I say 'inspired by', as in many ways this will be a freelance model, as I certainly do not have the room for the huge complexity that actually went on in the specific area I am focusing on.

 

Modelling the activity on the valley floor (river, secondary line(s), NCB colliery lines/washery, etc) will mean that I will need some suitable backscene, to represent the valley sides, at the rear of the layout.  To date, despite a trawl of the usual locations, I have not found any commercial offerings (the location is probably/understandably a bit specialised) -  does anyone know of a souce of a suitable backscene?  With modeller's licence, this could be of any mining valley location, though the Welsh scenery/building materials in such locations, is quite distinctive.

 

I suppose I could revisit the area and see if some present-day digital images might work, but I'm pretty sure my artistic abilities will be beyond painting a suitable scene -  any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Neal Ball]

See if you can get hold of a copy of the January edition of Model Rail Chris Nevard talks through how to make your own Backscene. Good luck!

[steveNCB7754]

hello and welcome... I cant give you any direct help (other than spray it grey and tell everyone its raining!) but there is a lot of info and people on here who can explain the art of turning digital images into backscenes

 

Hi Mickey,

 

South Wales = Rain! (How dare you!) ;-)   Mind you, I could fit one of those ultrasonic mist generators in the river, then no one could see the backscene at all -  problem solved!  Probably not good for the electrics though.

 

Digital backscene is a possibility and I have the article by Chris Nevard that Neal also mentions in his post, so a visit to Mountain Ash (or a more photographically feasible location) may be called for, perhaps just as the May blossom is fading (might even be sunny!).

 

 

Thanks.

[steveNCB7754]

See if you can get hold of a copy of the January edition of Model Rail Chris Nevard talks through how to make your own Backscene. Good luck!

 

Hi Neal,

 

I do have the article by Chris Nevard and a digital backscene may be the only answer, so as I said to Mickey, a visit to Mountain Ash (or a more photographically feasible location) may be on the cards later this year (I certainly don't fancy a snow scene!).

 

 

Thanks.

[chrisf]

 I cant give you any direct help (other than spray it grey and tell everyone its raining!)

 

The builder of Merthyr Riverside, whose name escapes me, has done almost exactly that.  To a pale grey background he has added streaks of dark grey emulsion which looks remarkably effective and conveys the bleak character of parts of the Valleys

 

There are some pics of Mountain Ash in books such as "The Heyday of Steam in South Wales" compiled by Derek Huntriss.  I think Mountain Ash has changed a bit since they were taken though.  Another sosurce of inspiration might be the mystery photographs bit of the RCTS website.  For my sins I am one of the panel set up to try and identify the locations.

 

Chris

[steveNCB7754]

The builder of Merthyr Riverside, whose name escapes me, has done almost exactly that.  To a pale grey background he has added streaks of dark grey emulsion which looks remarkably effective and conveys the bleak character of parts of the Valleys

 

There are some pics of Mountain Ash in books such as "The Heyday of Steam in South Wales" compiled by Derek Huntriss.  I think Mountain Ash has changed a bit since they were taken though.  Another sosurce of inspiration might be the mystery photographs bit of the RCTS website.  For my sins I am one of the panel set up to try and identify the locations.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chrisf,

 

Yes, I see what you mean (I found a couple of pictures of the Merthyr Riverside layout on Flickr).  His is more of the feel of the open Welsh countryside with brooding dark hills in the distance, but the principle is sound.

 

"The Heyday of Steam in South Wales" is one of the books in my collection of South Wales references (and a very good one).  Given that my layout is partly a freelance effort, I guess some digital shots taken of a more open valley side (with prominent rows of houses along the length of the scene) than actually existed at Mountain Ash, may be the answer.  As you say, Mountain Ash has changed a bit (a lot actually), with all the industrial stuff gone and much more in the way (literally!) of trees and undergrowth now.

 

Had a quick look at the (excellent) RCTS resource -  thanks for that.

 

 

Steve

[The Stationmaster]

Part of the problem with backscenes for that part of the world is the way things in many places have changed completely.  The change started to come following the Aberfan disaster which led to the high tips being removed or made more stable,  then conifer planting, then the gradual clean up of the towns and appearance of the houses as the industrial grime was cleaned away.  A visit to the Red Valley (allegedly the setting for 'Hw Green Is My Valley?' in the early 1970s revealed remnants f the scene of a decade previously but already changing rapidly, a visit there today would be to a different world.  So perhaps looking for old postcards - usually out of copyright - might be a helpful avenue?

[steveNCB7754]

Part of the problem with backscenes for that part of the world is the way things in many places have changed completely.  The change started to come following the Aberfan disaster which led to the high tips being removed or made more stable,  then conifer planting, then the gradual clean up of the towns and appearance of the houses as the industrial grime was cleaned away.  A visit to the Red Valley (allegedly the setting for 'Hw Green Is My Valley?' in the early 1970s revealed remnants f the scene of a decade previously but already changing rapidly, a visit there today would be to a different world.  So perhaps looking for old postcards - usually out of copyright - might be a helpful avenue?

 

Hi Mike,

 

You are so right. Visiting these valleys today, it is hard to believe that such widespread industry was ever there. Last year, I did a quick reconnoitre of the area and that's what got me thinking that a commercial backscene would be the easiest and cheapest option. The trouble is, that even if you ignore the lack of colliery buildings, headframes, etc today and the presence now of modern buildings, there is so much more vegetation in the way now, that meaningful photography from suitable roadside vantage points would be impossible.

 

Old postcards certainly might help from an inspirational point of view, but they are usually general shots, whereas I would need linear, overlapping, ones to create a digital backscene.

 

Steve

[westerhamstation]

Hi. you might try google maps street view its something I have used and you can edit the image on rmweb in image editor, if nothing else it saves you going out in the snow.

[Armchair Modeller]

Ynysarwed Sidings in 2mm scale is the most effective i have seen for a semi-rural area. It was featured a couple of times in MRJ and there are a few photos on the web. Here, there is little or no backscene as such - the scenery behind the trackwork becomes a 3D backscene on it own.

 

for example    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pyewipe-jct/sets/72157627791435737/with/6254265013/

[steveNCB7754]

Hi. you might try google maps street view its something I have used and you can edit the image on rmweb in image editor, if nothing else it saves you going out in the snow.

 

Hi there,

 

Yes, I too have looked at Street View and with a bit more effort, I might find something suitable. Unfortunately, as I mentioned to someone else, there is far too much in the way nowadays (trees, new buildings), to get a good view of the actual location I'm modelling (or indeed, at many other former mining/colliery sites). Definitely worth pursuing though.

 

Thanks.

[steveNCB7754]

Ynysarwed Sidings in 2mm scale is the most effective i have seen for a semi-rural area. It was featured a couple of times in MRJ and there are a few photos on the web. Here, there is little or no backscene as such - the scenery behind the trackwork becomes a 3D backscene on it own.

 

for example    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pyewipe-jct/sets/72157627791435737/with/6254265013/

 

Hi,

 

That's an impressive model and I see what you mean.  My problem, is that I'm modelling in 'OO' scale and already struggling to get it all in (tracks on both sides of a river) on the baseboards I have.  Maybe I'm being too precious about it though, it is a freelance model after all.

 

Thanks very much for your suggestion.

[br2975]

Present day Mountain Ash - for your continued enjoyment.

.

Notice how deserted Oxford Street appears at midday on a Sunday .....

.

Photo 3 - taken from the footbridge of the 'new' Mountain Ash station - just south of the former TVR 'Oxford St' station shows the site of the former NCB engine shed on the right.

.

Cardiff Road and the Cresselly pub on the far right (north east bank of the Afon Cynon hasn't changed a great deal since the heady days of "Sir Gomer" - "Sir John" and "Llantanam Abbey")

 

Brian R

[br2975]

And moving down the valley toward Abercynon we come to Penrhiwceiber

.

It's worth noting that the street furniture and housing has changed a bit since the mid 70s e.g. upvc windows, new rooves, stone cladding etc.

.

Brian R

[Budgie]

Have you got any pictures further up the valley: Abercwmboi, Aberaman, Cwmbach, etc?

 

My grandparents used to live in Aberaman, and I spent many happy holidays there in the 1950s and 1960s.

[br2975]

Have you got any pictures further up the valley: Abercwmboi, Aberaman, Cwmbach, etc?

 

My grandparents used to live in Aberaman, and I spent many happy holidays there in the 1950s and 1960s.

 

Sorry mate - I've got family in " Mount " and very rarely venture any further up the valley.

 

Best I can do, is refer you to the pictures of the Mountain Ash NCB system in this thread:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28737-south-wales-industrial-railways/page-1

 

Brian R

[corneliuslundie]

An interesting discussion as I shall face the same thing with my proposed (when I return to the UK) EM layout Nantcwyddu (a fictitious valley between the Rhymney valley and the Taff Bargoed valley).

My intended approach is to put a continuous row of half relief terraced houses at the back of the layout so that all you have visible above is hillside. I don't know yet if it will work. Nearer the foreground there obviously has to be a chapel, which will block the view down the only front to back street and will, with luck, have the local choir in full practice when the layout is on show.

I did play around a few years ago with making rows of low relief terraced houses from real photos. I think I manly used a postcard from the St Fagans museum, but I don't have it here. It seemed effective at the time but it never got incorporated into a layout.

One more reference for atmosphere is the book Aberdare: The railways and tramways by John Mear (published by the author).  The printing is on matt paper but there are a lot of period photos. And there are some marvellous published photos of the various branch termini, with bare hillslides, colliery lines, sometimes with not much sign of the town, which is presumably a little further down the valley, and other times with terraces right behind the station. And don't forget a few feral sheep!

[Budgie]

Nearer the foreground there obviously has to be a chapel, which will block the view down the only front to back street and will, with luck, have the local choir in full practice when the layout is on show.

Don't forget the pub(s) for the miners to slake their thirsts after their shift is over.

[br2975]

I did play around a few years ago with making rows of low relief terraced houses from real photos. I think I manly used a postcard from the St Fagans museum, but I don't have it here.

 

I'm an unpaid publicist for the Museum of Welsh Life - formerly Amgueddffa Werin Cymru, St. Fagans . . . . .  I should be, we're both in the same road !

.

Brian R

[steveNCB7754]

Present day Mountain Ash - for your continued enjoyment.

.

Notice how deserted Oxford Street appears at midday on a Sunday .....

.

Photo 3 - taken from the footbridge of the 'new' Mountain Ash station - just south of the former TVR 'Oxford St' station shows the site of the former NCB engine shed on the right.

.

Cardiff Road and the Cresselly pub on the far right (north east bank of the Afon Cynon hasn't changed a great deal since the heady days of "Sir Gomer" - "Sir John" and "Llantanam Abbey")

 

Brian R

 

Hi Brian R,

 

Great photos in your two posts!

 

Yes, I must get there (hopefully on a similarly sunny day and with more time) and see what might work.  I did think that a visit now (no leaves on most trees) and then again in the spring (with some leaf on) would at least give me feel for the place.  Corneliuslundie's suggestion of using half-relief buildings is another good idea, perhaps using similar buildings of a smaller scale behind, to suggest receding distance.  As you point out, modernisation of the original houses and new build, has substantially changed the view there today, coupled to the landscaping and planting that has undoubtedly taken place.  Mustn't forget the old-style TV aerials as well, a very distinctive feature of the pre-satellite/digital era.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve N

[steveNCB7754]

An interesting discussion as I shall face the same thing with my proposed (when I return to the UK) EM layout Nantcwyddu (a fictitious valley between the Rhymney valley and the Taff Bargoed valley).

My intended approach is to put a continuous row of half relief terraced houses at the back of the layout so that all you have visible above is hillside. I don't know yet if it will work. Nearer the foreground there obviously has to be a chapel, which will block the view down the only front to back street and will, with luck, have the local choir in full practice when the layout is on show.

I did play around a few years ago with making rows of low relief terraced houses from real photos. I think I manly used a postcard from the St Fagans museum, but I don't have it here. It seemed effective at the time but it never got incorporated into a layout.

One more reference for atmosphere is the book Aberdare: The railways and tramways by John Mear (published by the author).  The printing is on matt paper but there are a lot of period photos. And there are some marvellous published photos of the various branch termini, with bare hillslides, colliery lines, sometimes with not much sign of the town, which is presumably a little further down the valley, and other times with terraces right behind the station. And don't forget a few feral sheep!

 

Hi Corneliuslundie,

 

You have some interesting ideas there, thanks for that, I hadn't thought of low-relief buildings.

 

 

Regards

 

Steve N

[corneliuslundie]

Looking again at the Aberdare railways book. the photos are really rather poorly printed. Unfoirtunately, the Gomer Press book on the Pontypool Road to Neath line is not much better.

The best photos are in Michael Page's Rails in the valleys, but mine is in store so I can't quote chapter and verse. There is a lovely one of a terminus with a terrace of houses right behind the platform. From memory it was somewhere on th Brecon and Merthyr line in the Rhymney valley.

Also it would be worth looking at Michael Hale's series on Steam in South Wales (all but the first published by the Welsh Railways Research Circle but out of print, I think).as his photos were taken in "those black and white days"

One thing I did notice is that there are some very long terraces of houses running along the sides of the valleys. Also, that sometimes the roofline slopes rather than being stepped to cope with changes of level. I don't think I have seen this outside South Wales.

And if you want the ultimate in desolation, hlook for phogos of Glyncorrwg North Pit halt.

Re pubs, of course one for the Methodists, onje for the Baptists and one for the Congregationalists!

Finally, try this link (Gorsedd bards not compulsory): http://www.oldukphotos.com/glamorgan_mountain_ash.htm

[steveNCB7754]

Looking again at the Aberdare railways book. the photos are really rather poorly printed. Unfoirtunately, the Gomer Press book on the Pontypool Road to Neath line is not much better.

The best photos are in Michael Page's Rails in the valleys, but mine is in store so I can't quote chapter and verse. There is a lovely one of a terminus with a terrace of houses right behind the platform. From memory it was somewhere on th Brecon and Merthyr line in the Rhymney valley.

Also it would be worth looking at Michael Hale's series on Steam in South Wales (all but the first published by the Welsh Railways Research Circle but out of print, I think).as his photos were taken in "those black and white days"

One thing I did notice is that there are some very long terraces of houses running along the sides of the valleys. Also, that sometimes the roofline slopes rather than being stepped to cope with changes of level. I don't think I have seen this outside South Wales.

And if you want the ultimate in desolation, hlook for phogos of Glyncorrwg North Pit halt.

Re pubs, of course one for the Methodists, onje for the Baptists and one for the Congregationalists!

Finally, try this link (Gorsedd bards not compulsory): http://www.oldukphotos.com/glamorgan_mountain_ash.htm

 

Hi Again Corneliuslundie,

 

Thanks for those sugested references, I'll have to keep an eye out for those books but I am a bit wary of getting too involved in specific location research, as I did that once before for a layout, to the extent that it never got built!

 

Regards,

 

Steve N

[timbowilts]

Looking again at the Aberdare railways book. the photos are really rather poorly printed. Unfoirtunately, the Gomer Press book on the Pontypool Road to Neath line is not much better.

The best photos are in Michael Page's Rails in the valleys, but mine is in store so I can't quote chapter and verse. There is a lovely one of a terminus with a terrace of houses right behind the platform. From memory it was somewhere on th Brecon and Merthyr line in the Rhymney valley.

Also it would be worth looking at Michael Hale's series on Steam in South Wales (all but the first published by the Welsh Railways Research Circle but out of print, I think).as his photos were taken in "those black and white days"

One thing I did notice is that there are some very long terraces of houses running along the sides of the valleys. Also, that sometimes the roofline slopes rather than being stepped to cope with changes of level. I don't think I have seen this outside South Wales.

And if you want the ultimate in desolation, hlook for phogos of Glyncorrwg North Pit halt.

Re pubs, of course one for the Methodists, onje for the Baptists and one for the Congregationalists!

Finally, try this link (Gorsedd bards not compulsory): http://www.oldukphotos.com/glamorgan_mountain_ash.htm

Reviving an old thread here, re pubs I'm not sure about "one for the Methodists" as we are/were supposed to be teetotal!

 

A very inetresting thread as Im about to embark on the construction of a small EM layout "Mountain Ash (Fach)