Ironstone Railways UK - American Style Dump Car Wagons

[Osgood]

The above article was the inspiration behind the Ironstone part of the Ilford & West Essex MRC's "Eastwell" Layout back in the late 1970's and early 80's. The Ironstone part of the layout declared UDI and became "Mini Eastwell",…….

 

Paul, many thanks for the explanation above, also the photographs.

 

Perhaps chance - but certainly no coincidence then - that CJ Peacock's article shares a file on my desk with an 8 sided article on Mini Eastwell carefully torn from Model Railways August 1987!  You and the other Ilford Club members should be chuffed to learn that both articles are still a source of modelling inspiration all these years on.

 

I never saw this layout in real life, so had to make do with whatever window was opened upon it by the occasional magazine articles.

 

Where I think your layout excelled was in placing the railway and industrial elements into context of scale within the countryside, so well illustrated by your last two photos above.

 

I hope it is ok to reproduce below the layout plan which accompanied the 1987 MR article (well worth tracking down an old copy!).

If you have a track plan of the whole set-up including the later exchange sidings development I'd be pleased to see it.

 

Tony

 

[Swindon 123]

Paul, many thanks for the explanation above, also the photographs.

 

Perhaps chance - but certainly no coincidence then - that CJ Peacock's article shares a file on my desk with an 8 sided article on Mini Eastwell carefully torn from Model Railways August 1987!  You and the other Ilford Club members should be chuffed to learn that both articles are still a source of modelling inspiration all these years on.

 

I never saw this layout in real life, so had to make do with whatever window was opened upon it by the occasional magazine articles.

 

Where I think your layout excelled was in placing the railway and industrial elements into context of scale within the countryside, so well illustrated by your last two photos above.

 

I hope it is ok to reproduce below the layout plan which accompanied the 1987 MR article (well worth tracking down an old copy!).

If you have a track plan of the whole set-up including the later exchange sidings development I'd be pleased to see it.

 

Tony

 

Eastwell plan MRAug87.jpg

Hello Tony,

 

Its nice to know that the layout inspired people even though it is now nearly 40 years old, the crusher/works board was built around 1977/8. I first came across the layout as part of the larger Midland branchline "Eastwell station" layout, but was mainly responsible for the ironstone section declaring UDI and developing into it's own identity in its many guises.

There was a second part to the Model Railway article in the September 87 issue following on from the August article if you ever come across it. The extended layout with the exchange sidings appeared in the August 1994 issue of "British Railway Modeling" [Vol 2 No5] and was reprised in a photo article in "Rail Express" July 1997 issue. The original "Eastwell station" layout appeared in "Model Railway Constructor" may 1980 issue and again in the May 1997 issue of "British Railway Modeling" [Vol 5 No2]. A read of all those articles, if you can find them, will show the long and complex development of the original "Eastwell station" layout and its offshoots. I have managed to track down some layout plans from the August 1994 issue of "British Railway Modeling" and will amend my original post to include them so that you can view them in relation to the photo's. There is also a page to the layout on Kier Hardy's EM70's website here, http://emgauge70s.co.uk/, although it is awaiting an update as a lot of the photos originally on photopick have been gone missing from the site.

 

Paul J.

[rope runner]

Thanks for posting those photos Paul.

 

I remember seeing Eastwell assembled in full-length at the Rutland Railway Museum back in the 90's. It is a fascinating layout...

 

I can't remember there being any dump cars feeding the crusher on the raised level, but nevertheless not all ironstone crusher plants were fed this way. 

 

Are there any plans to display or exhibit Eastwell again? 

 

Paul A. 

[Swindon 123]

Thanks for posting those photos Paul.

 

I remember seeing Eastwell assembled in full-length at the Rutland Railway Museum back in the 90's. It is a fascinating layout...

 

I can't remember there being any dump cars feeding the crusher on the raised level, but nevertheless not all ironstone crusher plants were fed this way. 

 

Are there any plans to display or exhibit Eastwell again? 

 

Paul A.

Hello Paul A,

I remember Rutland well. Got to ride in one of the 14's there as well as exhibiting at a location involved with Ironstone workings. No we didn't have any dump cars on the high level section. I think they were looked into at one time, but they where considered to complicated to scratchbuild at that time. I think some wagons based on the calcining ones seen earlier in the thread where started, but never finished. I also had some American style bogie hopper cars that where quite small that where occasionally seen up there, but the line was more of a static display than operational. the main focus of the layout being the arrival, filling and dispatch of the outward product to the reception sidings.

As to displaying EIC again, although I would like to think it would be exhibited again, I doubt it in its full format. It took 8 people to run is properly and the ten or so people who used to be regulars are not available anymore. Plus the fact it takes a lot of space to erect and would need setting up and testing fully before going to an exhibition as it has not run for 15 years. I don't have access to that sort of space any more, although I'm hoping to resurrect the exchange sidings part as a stand alone exhibit in the future and in theory the old "Mini Eastwell" concept could be resurrected, so never say never, just not in the immediate future.

 

Paul J.

[rope runner]

Paul, 

 

Hopefully it can be displayed in some format again, if only a small section of it as you say. 

 

Best of luck with it

 

Paul A. 

[RThompson]

Time to bring this topic up again.

 

Been making a start on the patterns but not convinced the side frames will cast well so these will be done as a multi layered etch to give the correct depth and details joined together with a cast chassis frame. The main body will be etched with cast details.

 

The 4mm scale version will be released first with a 7mm scale version afterwards.

 

Should have something to show in a few months now as I'm having time off from next week.

Edited July 19, 2016 by RThompson

[7013]

Just come back to RMweb after a lay off for a while. Interested to know if Robert has made any further progress on these wagons. I live next to the old Iron stone workings ( little evidence left today unless you know what to look for) . My layout is complete and uses Tipplers and hoppers at present, long for the day when I can put a rake of dump cars on it

[RThompson]

Just come back to RMweb after a lay off for a while. Interested to know if Robert has made any further progress on these wagons. I live next to the old Iron stone workings ( little evidence left today unless you know what to look for) . My layout is complete and uses Tipplers and hoppers at present, long for the day when I can put a rake of dump cars on it

I've been a bit slow on doing any brand new etch designs at present with work so these have been on the slow side as the chassis sides are to be etched rather than cast as there is the chance they may not cast properly so better to do laminations. May even be possible to fold them in one piece to aid contruction them trim away after? Certainly a challange in designing it as a buildable kit.

 

A start was made on the chassis skeleton patterns a while ago.

[Osgood]

Do you have a 7mm version in mind when doing the initial design for this, Robert?

 

Also, I have an early 7mm multi-pack of Chas Roberts tipplers - is it practical to supply etches for the revised brake components required for the upgraded version?

Happy to pay additional charge if so.

 

Tony

[rope runner]

I've already made a start on my first 4mm loco to be fitted with buckeyes, ready for some dump cars. Coupling height is adjustable, with 2 bolts on a piece of threaded bar which clamp the coupling at the desired height. 

 

 

Paul A. 

[Down_Under]

Hello All,

 

While searching the net I accidentally stumbled across these side tippers for 009 gauge

 

 

They can be found at http://www.wdmodels.com/page8.htm

 

Were there any narrow gauge examples running in the UK? I imagine you might be able to space out the wheels to 12mm to use on a 3ft gauge line?

 

 

 

Time to bring this topic up again.

Been making a start on the patterns but not convinced the side frames will cast well so these will be done as a multi layered etch to give the correct depth and details joined together with a cast chassis frame. The main body will be etched with cast details.

The 4mm scale version will be released first with a 7mm scale version afterwards.

Should have something to show in a few months now as I'm having time off from next week.

Hi Robert - How are you going with these? I was thinking maybe include a small jig to hold parts together while soldering up the chassis?

 

 

 

I've already made a start on my first 4mm loco to be fitted with buckeyes, ready for some dump cars. Coupling height is adjustable, with 2 bolts on a piece of threaded bar which clamp the coupling at the desired height. 

 

mw3.jpg

 

Paul A. 

What chassis jig are you using in that pic Paul?

[rope runner]

 

 

What chassis jig are you using in that pic Paul?

 

It's a 4mm JPL models jig. It's very basic, but is absolutely fine if you're not building with several points of compensation or anything fancy. 

 

The Manning Wardle in the above photo is still being worked on. 

 

Paul A. 

[arty]

I've been playing with some slightly bigger versions of the tippers in question.

They are originally Bachmann G scale tippers -  the big brother of the On30 tippers.

 

 

They (5 off) have been re-gauged to Gauge 3, and am in the process of turning the timber detail into a representation of the side tippers at Cottesmore.

Although not quite so rusty.

 

 

 

A bit more detail and then black to start with, and a bit (lot) of weathering.

 

Rgds

Richard

 

 

 

[gpplumy]

Any news from rt models on these lately

[Ruston]

This is a copy of the official photo of one of a batch of ten supplied to Hams Hall Power Station!

 

Mark Saunders

 

 

LR CEGB Dump Car.jpg

Another non ironstone use for this exact type of wagon was at Mountsorrel granite quarries. There is a photo showing them in use there in a book on the subject of the quarries. It was something I was looking through on a book stall at Leeds exhibition at the weekend and can't remember the author or publisher.

[arty]

The books title is :-Mountsorrel and its Associated Quarry Railways, by Ian Peaty, published by Irwell Press in 2012,  ISBN 978-1-906919-38-2

[RThompson]

Any news from rt models on these lately

I have not done anymore work on patterns or drawings.

 

Although the wheel situation will now be resolved as these use 8mm wheels, same size as my Stanton slag ladle wagon.

[gpplumy]

Ahh good to here. I keep checking the slag wagons as I want some

[RThompson]

Thought I would wake this topic up.

 

As some of you know I've taken a break from RT models. Today as I'm sat in Crewe railway station on standby, I'm using my time to get on with drawing up the dump car.

 

In fact having left he kit for so long has given me time to think about its design better. Progress so far after getting the part drawn drawing out.

 

[rope runner]

Looking forward to a rake of these distinctive wagons, glad things are moving forward. 

 

Paul A. 

[RThompson]

I'm actually pleased with the progress I've made today on it, helps not having to go anywhere in 12 hours!

 

There's been a lot of headaches in the design but I'm very convinced it will literally fall together, after all I want my kits to be both highly detailed but easy to build.

 

It hasn't helped it was that long ago I visited and drawn up the wagons and trying to deciphere everything.

 

It's being done fully etched rather than mixed media except for the springs which I might supply as bolts?

 

This will mean it can be produced in 7mm scale also.

 

Now an issue with both 4mm and 7mm scales.

 

The wheels that I measured was 1'10" (although GA drawing states 2'0") which means i can use standard markits 7mm diameter wheels.

 

However I have not come across anything suitable for 7mm scale unless someone knows?

Edited January 6, 2019 by RThompson

[Down_Under]

Great work RT! really looking forward to these!

 

James

 

Edit - could the discrepancy in wheel diameter be through wear?

 

Edit2 - Perhaps the springs be made from suitable wire wound round wound brass? Bolts also work. The nut head would represent the real life bolt holding it all together

Edited January 6, 2019 by Down_Under

[RThompson]

Great work RT! really looking forward to these!

 

James

 

Edit - could the discrepancy in wheel diameter be through wear?

 

Edit2 - Perhaps the springs be made from suitable wire wound round wound brass? Bolts also work. The nut head would represent the real life bolt holding it all together

The difference in diameter would be down to wear.

 

I probably could get some 8mm diameter wheels specially made up whether they would agree to it?

[RThompson]

I've managed to arrange some 8mm diameter wheels for 00 gauge, EM will need to pull them out but being brass can be turned down easily for P4.

 

The drawing is about 70% complete, there is a lot of parts!

 

Again I'm trying to make it etched only to keep costs down.

 

There is also included for one end as per the prototype a translater headstock so the rake can be coupled to normal buffing gear as I measured and photographed these also.

 

Buffers won't be supplied again keeps costs down but can be sourced elsewhere, RT Models 18" sentinel buffers are the nearest but the wagons buffers heads are smaller.

[rope runner]

Have you thought about axle boxes Robert?

 

The preserved ones differ from those more commonly deployed, I believe - they may be a later modification. I can't remember which ones featured on the drawings I sent. 

 

Paul A.