Raised On Steam Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 First a bit of background. I got back into railway modelling about a year ago having left it behind in my teens. I'd been thinking about it for a few years before that though, and the first engine I knew I wanted was a Tyne Dock 9F. I've had a soft spot for these beasts since seeing Evening Star in action when I was a kid. I'd cycled the Tyne Dock to Consett trackbed many times and always could hear the ghostly roar of the big black 9's echoing in my head and imagined the spectacle. First problem is that as neither Hornby or Bachmann has ever done a RTR model of this variant it means kit building or a conversion. I tracked down the really good 'how to' article by George Dent on converting the Hornby Railroad 9. My 9 is a Bachmann though and they are laid out slightly differently. I don't live far from Dave Alexander so I rang him up and popped along and bought two conversion kits. I wasn't hugely confident though. I have a fair bit of plastic kit building experience and some basic engineering skills but working on something as small as a 00 train looked a bit challenging. I bought a Dapol/Airfix to practise on and I ended up finishing that kit as a fantasy BR blue engine as though it had survived into the 1970's. You can see that project for yourself here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87351-1970s-9f/ The practise build was enormously helpful and taught me a few things. Although doing one of these conversions is fairly small beer compared to some of the feats of kit and scratch building I've read about, it is devilishly fiddly. I guess you could say it's a good project for beginners like me but it does involve that sinking moment when you start attacking a very nice model with unknown outcomes. So a disclaimer before we go any further - I am not an expert ubermodeller and the results of this project will be less than perfect I'm sure. It'll just show how I tackled the conversion for better or worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 First I needed a suitable 9F to convert. For the uninitiated there are a few things to look out for. The Tyne Dock 9F's had single chimneys and BR1B tenders. I found one on Ebay that not only had the right chimney, the tender had been replaced with the right type, and a little beauty it is too. To begin with a measure up. When I made up the fittings for the blue 9 I made two of everything so I was a step ahead. I made the bits and pieces 'long' and a good job I did as the Bachmann was as expected a slightly different shape to the kit. I used brass rod for the pipe runs as it is stiffer than copper (both a good and a bad idea as it turned out). Plus I couldn't find copper wire thin enough at the time. There are four pipe runs. One comes out of the fireman's side of the steam manifold on the top of the firebox, runs down and splits in two in front of the fireman's front window, the twin pipes run to the air pumps. As in the various things I'd read I used handrail knobs as valves and I used two more ground down ones as the in line safety valves just before the pumps. The next pipes are a double set that run from the pumps into the side of the smokebox behind the smoke deflector. These bifurcate apart slightly just before they disappear behind the deflector. From the twin air reservoirs on the driver's side a pipe runs from each up, along under the running plate and down under the bottom front and side of the cab. The last one is the toughest, well for me it was. It's a double pipe running from the fronts of the reservoirs, under the boiler and into the sides of the pumps on the fireman's side. It took me a couple of goes to make some of the pipes as they all follow a tortuous path and they have to be exactly right to fit. I like them to drop into place and sit comfortably so none of the components are under stress. Too late I found a small scan of one of the original layout drawings from Brighton on the NRM website (you can buy a copy for about £25) which I wish I'd found before I'd started bending wires though I think I did alright working from photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here're the twin reservoirs piped up. I preformed the wires before soldering them in place in the whitemetal tanks. It was tricky judging the right thickness of wire to look like the reference pictures. In hindsight it would have made life easier to use softer copper wire, or even thinner brass wire for the right angle pipes even though it wouldn't have looked quite right. Also in hindsight I got the shape of the right angled pipe run totally wrong because when I later looked at the Brighton drawing the pipes are neither together or at right angles! The back dog legged part fits under the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 These are the pipes which run across from the pumps to the reservoirs and from the reservoirs back to the tender and out the back to the wagon train. Here're the facsimile pipes in situ to see what we have. Crap fuzzy pics I know but you get the idea. The tricky part here is balancing the reservoir and pipes in place to check clearances. Blu tak comes in handy here. Looks good so far, quite pleased with that! I think I should mention here the shape I bent the cross pipes into. I scrutinised pic after pic to figure out the shape of the pipes. Wrong! Don't copy this. According to the drawing the pipes are separate - which would have been much easier and more flexible. Sadly I was too far into the build before I discovered this and the reservoirs were supeglued in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Thought I'd post part 1 of the Brighton drawing I discovered. I wish I'd set the pipes up like this, much better! Brighton knew what they were doing. This drawing isn't mine!!!! It belongs to the NRM and when I have the spare cash I'll probably be getting onto them to buy a copy :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You'll be getting PM's asking what price to apply your conversion to my 9F ... ... and out the back to the wagon train... So, just the nine hopper kits to build once the 9F is done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 You'll be getting PM's asking what price to apply your conversion to my 9F ... So, just the nine hopper kits to build once the 9F is done! Ha ha I wish! To build a rake of Consett hoppers would be the thick end of £500. I might scrape one together as an example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ha ha I wish! To build a rake of Consett hoppers would be the thick end of £500. I might scrape one together as an example. If you want one that will pretty much fall together, I can thoroughly recommend the Dave Alexander kit - I've built 2 so far and have 16 to go... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yep it would probably be an Alexander one. The 'scraping' bit refers to money, or lack of it for the immediate future. Meanwhile as I can't afford to invest in any new projects I'm finishing off unfinished ones ha ha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Meanwhile time to get the razor saw out and load the slitting disc on the Dremel and cut a gnarly big slot out of the running plate of your lovely shiny model. Surprisingly ticklish job this and you have to remember to stop holding your breath. The kit instructions tell you where and how big to cut the slot but as with everything it's offer up, trim, offer up, trim. This is sort of the point of no return as you're now commited to the job and your model has just plummeted in resale value…... As this is a Bachmann the running plate is a seperate mazak piece glued to the boiler and cutting into it leaves a worryingly thin section to hang the air pumps on. The Hornby is slightly different as the running plate and boiler are all one plastic moulding so you cut the slot in that first then mark out where it overlaps on the metal of the chassis and trim away a smaller slot there. The idea is that the pumps attach to the plastic of the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianblenk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi, I converted a Bachmann a few years ago with Dave's kit, but I know there were modifications to the cab roof, do you know what these were? I think they were two strips of added plate. I know, I should go and buy a book! Thanks Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianblenk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Sorry, here's a pic of in at Marine Park, should have this at Birtley next month IB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 I wasn't aware of any cab roof mods, I'll look into it. Was it possibly opening the roof vent up? The Bachmann (and Hornby) cab roof is solid plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is about the best pic I've got of the roof on one of the Tyne Dock 9Fs, don't know if it is of any use to you: Good luck with the rest of the conversion, I have plans to do one in P4 at some point which I'm going to do as 92063 as she was when she hauled the last 9F powered ore train to Consett. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Thanks for that for two reasons. One: my cab looks just like that one and Two: 92062 just happens to be the engine I'm modelling and I hadn't seen that particular pic of her :-) Also that's pretty much the condition I want to model her in too, used but not filthy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 92063 with the Tyne Docker headboard and polished pipes is a fantastic idea for a model! I guess another less spectacular one would be 92099 hauling the last train to Alnwick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Progress report from the pipeworks he he. Brass wire and pliers then a spot of soldering and here we go: One pipe runs from the side of the steam manifold on top of the firebox, splits in two, dog legs past the fireman's front window where there's a control valve in each pipe, then they feed the air pumps. The other pipes are the exhaust from the pumps to the smokebox. The Alexander instructions give you the basic dimensions and path of the pipe runs, other than that close study of pictures shows exactly where they go. Trickiest bit was where the two pipes join as you have to bend in all three dimensions to get the shape that clears the fireman's window. You also need to make sure the twin pipes sit close enough to the cab front to get the right length of valve control rods. The handrail knobs I'd bought had holes that were too small for the gauge of brass wire I was using. Sigh. I managed to drill them out with one of my hair's breadth drills. As mentioned before there're two upright safety valves, one in each pipe. I ground down the same handrail knobs I was using as valve rods and they look close enough to the real thing….if you stand far enough away. They'll work when they're painted. The exhaust pipes are a bit tricky to get right and I had a couple of go's before I was happy. The bends have to look right and the pipes splay out as they come down to the pumps. There's also a kink where they cross the pipes to the clack valves and then they splay out again slightly before they disappear behind the smoke deflector. My first attempt was with copper wire but I couldn't get them straight enough so went over to brass…and made them in too thick a gauge. A quick trip to the model shop for some finer gauge wire and it looked much much better! Here they are offered up: I cut the pipes long again and held the airpumps in place to judge the right length. Again thin masking tape and/or blu tak becomes a 'third hand'. Problem - the pipe that leads from the steam manifold on top of the firebox. I'd cut it long and trimmed and trimmed, but trimmed too far and it came up short……So I soldered on an extension and trimmed back agin - but more carefully this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 There's a photo listed on eBay at the moment that shows the roof, with the vent open, in fairly good detail: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAILWAY-STEAM-PHOTOGRAPH-92065-92098-DRIVERS-Nr-SOUTH-PELAW-SIGNAL-BOX-/351305658911?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item51cb72f21f John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mr.S.corn78 Posted February 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thought I'd post part 1 of the Brighton drawing I discovered. I wish I'd set the pipes up like this, much better! Brighton knew what they were doing. drawing SL_BR_1416 Pt1.png This drawing isn't mine!!!! It belongs to the NRM and when I have the spare cash I'll probably be getting onto them to buy a copy :-) Hi, Looking good, I've done a few of these conversions for people. They always make an interesting loco once finished. Nice find on the drawing showing the pipe runs, Can I ask if there is a code for the drawing as I have been looking for it on the NRM site and can't find it. Many thanks and looking forward to watching the progress Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianblenk Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hi All, Excellent thread. Re the roof apparently it was 'more heavily riveted' whatever that may mean, I guess for added protection under the loader at Tyne Dock. I'd love to build some hoppers, but space and of course cost are against me here! I do have a Q7 and O1 still to convert, these are on the back burner as I am busy with a J27 at present. Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi, Looking good, I've done a few of these conversions for people. They always make an interesting loco once finished. Nice find on the drawing showing the pipe runs, Can I ask if there is a code for the drawing as I have been looking for it on the NRM site and can't find it. Many thanks and looking forward to watching the progress Cheers Simon Here's the link to the thumbnail on the NRM site: http://www.nrm.org.uk/NRM/ResearchAndArchive/drawing?group=British%20Railways%20standard%20classes&objid=SL-BR-1416--Pt2 The codes for the two drawings (they overlap) are SL BR 1416 pt 1 and 2 Hope that helps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi All, Excellent thread. Re the roof apparently it was 'more heavily riveted' whatever that may mean, I guess for added protection under the loader at Tyne Dock. I'd love to build some hoppers, but space and of course cost are against me here! I do have a Q7 and O1 still to convert, these are on the back burner as I am busy with a J27 at present. Ian B I didn't know that. Makes sense I guess. As it doesn't look too noticeably different to normal I think I'll be leaving my cab roof alone. I'm jealous of your fleet, I want one of each of those engines! And a K1, and an Ivatt 4MT, and a WD, and a J94 he he. Which J27 are you doing? Alexander or Bradwell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 There's a photo listed on eBay at the moment that shows the roof, with the vent open, in fairly good detail: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAILWAY-STEAM-PHOTOGRAPH-92065-92098-DRIVERS-Nr-SOUTH-PELAW-SIGNAL-BOX-/351305658911?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item51cb72f21f John Good pic! Nice one. Good to meet you today! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianblenk Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I didn't know that. Makes sense I guess. As it doesn't look too noticeably different to normal I think I'll be leaving my cab roof alone. I'm jealous of your fleet, I want one of each of those engines! And a K1, and an Ivatt 4MT, and a WD, and a J94 he he. Which J27 are you doing? Alexander or Bradwell? Hi, It's an Alexander J27, I'm doing American Pick-ups which I used on the Q6 and it seems to run fine, I am putting in my last Portescap motor. Will you be at Birtley Show? Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I didn't know about Birtley but I'll try and pop along for sure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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