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Lais DCC





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#1 iclose

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 18:19

Came across these decoders on Ebay. Does anyone know anything about them. I am thinking of using them as lighting decoders for voyager as they are cheap.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=p2047675.l2562


Edited by iclose, 05 February 2015 - 18:20 .




#2 Matt

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 18:57

I've never heard of but you can get other decoders for similar price eg hattons own - I have a number of these and they seem to be fine.
M

#3 Austrag

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 19:00

That logo is familiar........



#4 RFS

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 23:36

If Hatton's have suitable decoders for the same price as ones on Ebay, then I'd buy from Hatton's every time.  If things go wrong it will be so much easier dealing with Hatton's. This Ebay seller is not registered as a business seller, which would make me suspicious.


Edited by RFS, 05 February 2015 - 23:38 .


#5 GoingUnderground

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 15:50

Lais appears to be a Hong Kong based business. There is a bigger selection of products listed on the Ali Baba (the Chinese clone of ebay) site http://www.aliexpres...1199970_26.html

 

The person who has them for sale on ebay has only completed 9 previous ebay transactions as they only joined ebay on 9th Jan this year.


Edited by GoingUnderground, 07 February 2015 - 17:54 .


#6 Rick Arton-Junction

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 16:07

I've bought some of these decoders and they seem to work OK, so I'm not complaining. 

 

The user manual advises that the Manufacturer ID (CV 8) is 153, which is the same as TCS's. :no:  Only consulting TCS's website, the LAIS DCC decoders bear a remarkable resemblance to the TCS M4.

 

I leave you to draw your own conclusions...

 

 

Rick Arton-Junction



#7 rodshaw

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:15

I've just fitted one of these Laisdcc decoders into a Bachmann GP40. It works fine if I don't change the factory settings, and the loco runs as smoothly as you'd expect with 28 speed steps. But if I set it to use speed tables for a smoother speed curve, by setting CV29 to 22, it's not happy at all. It crawls along very slowly till the throttle is at about a third, then it puts on a sudden burst of speed. The opposite happens when it slows down.

 

I tried programming a straight line speed curve into CVs 67 to 94, just to see if the factory-set one was faulty, but no difference.

 

I didn't notice a capacitor in the loco to take out, and in any case presumably if that were the problem, it would show itself regardless of whether I was using speed tables.

 

Has anyone else had this problem? Is there some other CV I need to set?


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#8 rodshaw

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:53

I seem to have solved the problem I mentioned above. Having read on another thread about back EMF causing running problems, I looked for CVs related to this. This isn't mentioned in the Laisdcc documentation, but I found it in the instructions for the TCS M4: back EMF is controlled by CV61, and is enabled by default. Set CV61 to 0 (or any even number) and the speed table operates impeccably.

 

(It looks like you can also switch BEMF on or off via a function key by setting CV 136).

 

So the Laisdcc decoder does seem ok but I haven't tried it with lights yet. I'm sure it will be fine!


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#9 rodshaw

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:47

I've now converted five locos to DCC using the LaisDcc decoders. All are working fine. These decoders are pretty functional, with various settings for lighting and back EMF. The only problem I had is that the back EMF, which is enabled by default, goes a bit haywire when you enable the speed table. So either you do without the speed table, or you disable BEMF.

 

I daresay the BEMF settings can be tweaked to get round this, but I've found that I don't really need to use the speed table, there's enough fine control by using the various motor voltage CVs.

 

The supplier I bought the decoders from has pointed me to the LAisDcc user manual, just released recently:

 

http://tiny-smart.co...ders_Manual.pdf


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#10 RFS

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 18:06

I've now converted five locos to DCC using the LaisDcc decoders. All are working fine. These decoders are pretty functional, with various settings for lighting and back EMF. The only problem I had is that the back EMF, which is enabled by default, goes a bit haywire when you enable the speed table. So either you do without the speed table, or you disable BEMF.

 

I daresay the BEMF settings can be tweaked to get round this, but I've found that I don't really need to use the speed table, there's enough fine control by using the various motor voltage CVs.

 

The supplier I bought the decoders from has pointed me to the LAisDcc user manual, just released recently:

 

http://tiny-smart.co...ders_Manual.pdf

 

The problem with the Back EMF causing a mid-speed surge is something I found characteristic of TCS decoders.  Turning off Back EMF resolved the issue to a certain extent, but wasn't my preferred solution.  I tried a couple of DCC Concepts decoders instead, and found they had exactly the same characteristic. Again turning of Back EMF partially resolved the issue.  In both cases it meant setting CV 61 to 0. I replaced them all with Lenz which have no such problem.

 

Now we have these Lais decoders with the same issue and the same way of turning off Back EMF (CV 61).  Coincidence? 



#11 rodshaw

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 21:40

The BEMF issue seems odd really. After all, with or without a speed table specified, the decoder is still progressing through a set of speed steps just the same. And I can set the top voltage and middle voltage (CVs 5 and 6) to anything I like and the decoder responds well with the speed table disabled and BEMF on.

 

But it's academic for me as I've got things working smoothly. And, if I'd never heard of BEMF I can't say I'd have missed it. At £10 the Lais decoders are certainly good value - especially if more expensive ones exhibit the same problem.



#12 devious diesel

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 15:46

I have just fitted one of these decoders to an Atlas HO GP38 .

 

The chip reads as manufacturer I.D.134 model 001.

 

So far so good. It runs great without any adjustments to the CV settings. 

 

David



#13 RFS

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 21:51

I would advise a read of this post on another forum (Your Model Railway Club) regarding the provenance of Lais decoders. Personally I would stick to recognized brands ....

 

http://yourmodelrail...m_id=10#p248603


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#14 Phil S

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 07:30

A thought on the possible reason for a difference in behaviour between 'speed table' and 'non-speed table, which might affect (presumably does with some decoder software codings):

 

Since the 'normal' speed calculaton is based on starting voltage CV2, (mid voltage if used) and max voltage CV5 ... suggesting an algorithm using those values plus speed step, and then affected by the acceleration and decelleration CVs 3,4 ..... the calculation of back emf modifying it probably fits well.

 

When using the speed table entered by a user/ step values from the manufacturwr, presumably the calculation need to be based on the ADJACENT SPEED STEP values only, and this is likely to be  'lumpier' than a calulation derived from the 'whole' (or half, with mid value) speed range.  Perhaps, when devoting time and effort to coding, they assume that if a user is choosing to specify their preferred speed at each and every speed step, then they do not want it 'overidden' by a back-emf calculation ???


Edited by Phil S, 18 September 2015 - 07:30 .


#15 Adrian Wintle

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 11:08

I would advise a read of this post on another forum (Your Model Railway Club) regarding the provenance of Lais decoders. Personally I would stick to recognized brands ....

 

http://yourmodelrail...m_id=10#p248603

 

I thought it was probably something like that.

 

Adrian



#16 RAFHAAA96

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:27

Having bought other stuff from this guy on Ali-Baba before (DCC sockets/adapters/etc, which were in my humble opinion good quality items at a bargain price) I wasn't surprised to be given the opportunity to become a local supplier for his decoders, led strip lights, etc and to buy in quantity (100's) at considerable discount.

 

Needless to say I ignored the offer but I can see others being tempted to set up a Ebay sales outlet for them to make a few quid and poor after sales support.

 

Yet more stuff that can be obtained from China if you are prepared to accept it is likely to be a pirate copy and usually of much poorer quality than the OEM stuff e.g. wall plug chargers, power tool and laptop batteries, etc.


Edited by RAFHAAA96, 20 September 2015 - 11:29 .


#17 ExPatBrit

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:52

Having bought other stuff from this guy on Ali-Baba before (DCC sockets/adapters/etc, which were in my humble opinion good quality items at a bargain price) I wasn't surprised to be given the opportunity to become a local supplier for his decoders, led strip lights, etc and to buy in quantity (100's) at considerable discount.
 
Needless to say I ignored the offer but I can see others being tempted to set up a Ebay sales outlet for them to make a few quid and poor after sales support.
 
Yet more stuff that can be obtained from China if you are prepared to accept it is likely to be a pirate copy and usually of much poorer quality than the OEM stuff e.g. wall plug chargers, power tool and laptop batteries, etc.


In my experience of sub-contracting in China, it's very possible it might be exactly the same as the OEM item. Chinese manufacturers are firm believers in the one for the customer, one for me principle. That's why I'm wary of some the Hornby product being sold out of the far east on ebay, it could be the real article which escaped the "official" parts count, because it was out the backdoor. No need to counterfeit what you're already making.

#18 Bilbo

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 14:32

They have website which doesn't say a lot , however what about ANE decoders. These seem to have sprung up on eBay as well as with a dealer.Do we think these decoders may also be a bit dodgy ?



#19 RFS

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 16:08

ANE Models are perfectly legit and have been around for some time.  They are the manufacturers of the SmartSwitch, for example, which Peco are selling here under their own name.


Edited by RFS, 20 September 2015 - 16:35 .


#20 Crosland

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 16:12

They have website which doesn't say a lot , however what about ANE decoders. These seem to have sprung up on eBay as well as with a dealer.Do we think these decoders may also be a bit dodgy ?

 

ANE model is a Taiwanese business that sells their own design range of products http://www.anemodel.com/some of which are sold by Peco as their smartswitch range.

 

Wickness Models are the only listed UK dealer.



#21 Crosland

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 16:13

 

No need to counterfeit what you're already making.

 

No need to put them through the same quality control, either :)


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#22 dripfedfred

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 19:24

Ane Model are a good quality Taiwanese company who have struggled to break into the uk market in decoders for a few years despite making a good value product, originally the decoders did come with no hard reset function but they corrected that problem a couple of years ago, you can read about them here https://www.wickness...emodel-decoders and the current manual is available as a download in the Wickness Vault



#23 Dagworth

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 19:48

I would advise a read of this post on another forum (Your Model Railway Club) regarding the provenance of Lais decoders. Personally I would stick to recognized brands ....
 
http://yourmodelrail...m_id=10#p248603


So from reading the linked article what is the situation with regard to Gaugemaster and DCC Concepts decoders? Are or were some of them rebadged counterfeit TCS items?


Andi

Edited by Dagworth, 20 September 2015 - 20:08 .


#24 Brookle2

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 21:22

I have just tried these decoders, and I think they are excellent
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#25 Zorcan

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 19:56

Came across these decoders on Ebay. Does anyone know anything about them. I am thinking of using them as lighting decoders for voyager as they are cheap.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=p2047675.l2562

Hi - I have used these both as wired and 8 pin plug varieties. They (all?) feature stay-alive leads (some come with small stay alive devices). They have specs similar to common or garden devices from Bachmann, Hornby etc,