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Hex Frog Juicer




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#1 BromsMods

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 16:38

We now have the ultimate in frog switching hardware to eliminate short circuits on your points - the Hex Frog Juicer, produced by Tam Valley Depot in the US. For more details on the product see http://www.tamvalley...frogjuicer.html

Unfortunately we aren't currently allowed to supply this via our internet store, because of legal restrictions on internet sales rights. It is, though, available via telephone, mail or fax order. Cost ??50 plus ??3.00 carriage (UK postcodes only) - international postage costs will be added at the time of despatch.

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#2 Andy Y

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 19:40

An interesting piece of kit John. I'm assuming then that if the point blades are wired to the frog then there's no need for any switching linked to the point motor - I can see this eliminating the shorts that occur when a point throws but the attached switch fails to act accordingly.

#3 BromsMods

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 21:17

Exactly Andy.

I'm experimenting using it with circuit breakers at the moment - will report back when tests complete.

#4 BromsMods

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 09:48

Provided that Frog Juicer is wired OUTSIDE of the circuit breakers it seems to work fine and would appear to be a solution to those in the DCC area who are reporting continual problems with shorts on points.

#5 Oldddudders

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:20

Provided that Frog Juicer is wired OUTSIDE of the circuit breakers it seems to work fine and would appear to be a solution to those in the DCC area who are reporting continual problems with shorts on points.

Sorry to be thick! By "outside" do you mean between booster and CB, or between CB and points? I would assume the latter, otherwise the user will have to adjust CB speed to be a bit leisurely.

I see an extra advantage of these items to be the ability to use DCC with live-frog points without motors, which will assist in certain designs of layout where point motors are seen as unprototypical, and either five-fingered, individual lever or lever-frame operation is preferred.

#6 298

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 11:17

Sorry to be thick! By "outside" do you mean between booster and CB, or between CB and points? I would assume the latter, otherwise the user will have to adjust CB speed to be a bit leisurely.

I see an extra advantage of these items to be the ability to use DCC with live-frog points without motors, which will assist in certain designs of layout where point motors are seen as unprototypical, and either five-fingered, individual lever or lever-frame operation is preferred.


It is also useful for unmotorised sprung or trailing pointwork, and obviously live crossings that would otherwise need a changeover switch on the panel. I can't really see it solving issues that can be overcome in other ways, but it does have the advantage in being a "Fit & Forget" product that saves alot of time.

#7 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 11:44

I'm quite interested in one of these devices. It would significantly simplify the wiring for the station throat that's on my drawing board.

Tam Valley have a couple of wiring diagrams on their web site. They show just how easy it is to wire points and crossings using the Hex Frog Juicer.
The double crossover just requires four wires !

Here's the link Tam Valley - Hex Frog Juicer



....I see an extra advantage of these items to be the ability to use DCC with live-frog points without motors, which will assist in certain designs of layout where point motors are seen as unprototypical, and either five-fingered, individual lever or lever-frame operation is preferred.

Indeed; but you could also use manually operated point motors with built-in switches, such as the Blue Point Manual Turnout Control or the Bullfrog Manual Turnout Control, attached by control rods or wire-in-tube to your chosen lever arrangement.
For just a couple or so points/crossovers it might be a cheaper route.



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#8 RedgateModels

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 14:21

anyone tested this with Dynamis?

#9 BromsMods

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 17:10

Sorry to be thick! By "outside" do you mean between booster and CB, or between CB and points? I would assume the latter, otherwise the user will have to adjust CB speed to be a bit leisurely.


I mean that the supply does NOT go through the CB, otherwise the HFJ will be restricted by the speed of the CB. If the HFJ was to operate via the CB there might well be a conflict. You want the HFJ to switch the power BEFORE the CB cuts power to the circuit.

#10 Donw

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 23:23

These also look to be the asnwer to diamond crossings where you would otherwise have to link up to associated points.
Donw

#11 RedgateModels

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:50

I've got to say these sound great and if I were starting Summat Colliery now, with the Powercab then I would be seriously considering them.

I problem I can see though is the "hex" bit. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a layout with two boards and a few points on each. To realistically use this device I would have to have one with MORE wires running between both boards - increasing the chances of failures etc at shows.

I have just four wires running between the two boards at the moment, two for the DCC bus and two for the 19vDC supply.

What would be good would be a series of boards, binary, tertiary, quatro frog juicers so I could have afforded to have a pcb on EACH board as I currently have with the accessory decoders.

It is still far more cost effective in this senario to put a cheap microswitch on each point (or use tortoi) and a couple of NCE EB1s to protect against shorts. Not the same operationally, but to be honest, even with a Frog Juicer if you run against an incorrectly set trailing point you will just derail rather than stop due to a short (agreed this senario will be VERY useful to those with unsprung points that are operated by the movement of the loco over them in a reversing loop!)

Sorry I'm rambling, but you can tell that I've put a lot of thought into the issue of automating frog switching Posted Image
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#12 BromsMods

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 14:47

With our latest stock we've managed to reduce the price to £49 for each Hex Frog Juicer plus £3.50 carriage for each (to a max of £7) - this then covers Special Delivery for multiple purchases, as many customers have come back for more, buying two or three at a time.

#13 Tref67

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:26

I presume this will happily deal with anything with a Frog in it? So just as effective on a single slip..

I have heard of stalling causing sound fitted locos to "restart" does that happen with this? Not that I have any sound fitted locos yet, but would rather be aware if it could cuase problems later!

Thanks,

Tref.

#14 BromsMods

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 15:20

Yes, it should do - remember, though, that there are settings in Loksound decoders that prevent a loco going through the complete start-up process if there is an interruption to the sound. In addition, the capacitor that comes with many sound decoders should retain sufficient power to overcome any momentary break in current supply, and the HFJ is so quick that it should eliminate any break in sound.

Incidentally, we should be able to retail the HFJ through our web site from January, I'm told, so it will then be available on-line. We are currently out of stock but will have more on Monday 1 November.

Edit: Mon 1st Nov - now back in stock

#15 Tref67

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 17:55

Thanks for that... it may provide a solution and allow me to play trains and test track on my layout before I get point motors installed, which have kind of stalled the project so far... I'll set an alarm for Monday!

Tref.

#16 BromsMods

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:44

We've managed to reduce the price of them now, with our new stock which arrived today, to £48.00 each.

#17 Calimero

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 14:41

how many points/frogs will it work? Or should I go for the single units?

#18 trisonic

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 14:51

Here ya go:
http://www.handlaidt...er-p/hfj001.htm
Looks like six to me!


Best, Pete.

#19 BromsMods

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 16:37

The link for complete details about the product is in the intial post above.

#20 BromsMods

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 16:39

how many points/frogs will it work? Or should I go for the single units?


(1) 6 - but it doesn't "work" the points, it just acts as a device to eliminate short circuits on the frog.
(2) That depends on your requirements............

#21 BromsMods

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 21:52

This product is now available for purchase from our internet store - see https://clarahost.cl...?categoryId=116

#22 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 22:14

Any plans to stock the Mono version John?

#23 Tref67

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:25

Hmmm... so it would seem from this thread I ordered this in October, and only now am I connecting it up... which leads to a couple of questions:

1. Depspite having only four points and a single slip I appear to have more than 6 frog-wires dangling below the baseboard (just counted 9... how did that happen?)... being of a lazy mind, can I use a "trial and error" approach to see how many of these can be doubled up, or could the potential short cause damage?

2. Can I do any damage checking continuity with a multimeter (I seem to recall I have one wire on the track fed round the wrong way from my initial wiring up, but I can't "see" where it is, so will have to test)?

3. Will damaged be caused if I were to connect up a conventional DC controller (an old H&M Duette) for checking clearances with stock not yet converted to DCC?

Thanks to anyone who can provide answers,

Tref.

#24 BromsMods

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 22:17

Any plans to stock the Mono version John?




We have had both mono and dual versions as well as the hex and servo on our stock list for a few months now, though we have sold out at the moment, but expect more in a week or so.

#25 BromsMods

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 19:43

Received even further stocks today of the Hex Frog Juicer, with a small stock of the variant designed just to work with the NCE PowerCab. Have managed to reduce the price a little as well.

Also have a small stock of the 5A booster from Tam Valley.






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