Jump to content
 
  • entries
    261
  • comments
    1,413
  • views
    143,607

The Dean and I


Barry Ten

1,002 views

Here's my Comet Dean Goods, which has finally reached completion after quite a protracted saga, involving more motor swaps than an F1 team.

 

blogentry-6720-0-65188900-1418679736.jpg

 

As mentioned in an earlier entry, I acquired the loco and tender chassis in an assembled state from another Rmwebber, who kindly did me a very good deal on the parts. This was perfect timing as I'd recently failed to install a decoder in my own Dapol-era Dean Goods, and was considering the possibilities of a proper loco-drive chassis substitution. At the time I thought that once I'd tweaked the pickups, there wouldn't be much more to do. As it happened, there was quite bit more to be done!

 

The first snag I hit was that the chassis had been screwed to a Dean Goods body which had been filled with some sort of shot pellets to add weight. Unfortunately, as has been reported in MRJ in particular, there can be a reaction between these pellets and PVA, leading to a progressive swelling. In this case, the effect had been enough to rupture the moulding between the boiler and the firebox, as well as the smokebox, and this in turn had led to the body turning banana-shaped, which was in turn stressing the chassis, bending it out of true. While Comet chassis are designed so that the center axles sit a little higher than the outer ones, in this case the flanges of the middle wheels were clear of the top of the rail. The running was lumpy at best since the distance between the wheels no longer matched the coupling rods. I tried squaring up the chassis but eventually decided that it would be neater and simpler to solder up some new frames.

 

So - I ordered a new frame set from Comet. This was assembled in an evening and the wheels, motor and gearbox from the original chassis were quickly transplanted, along with my own pickups. The model now ran better than before but was extremely gutless, stalling under any kind of load. The wheels would not slip, which to me is indicative of a model with insufficient power. I concluded that the Mashima 1015 motor must have been overloaded during the test running of the warped chassis, and therefore ordered new one. The only provision I made before installing the new 1015 was to cut off the rear motor spindle with a cutting disk. Optimistically, I tried the loco out again - only to find out that it was barely any better than before. It could cope with a load at speed, but was useless at the typical plod of a goods engine, slowing to a crawl on curves and still not able to spin its wheels. Had I damaged the motor with the cutting disk, by dwelling too long? What the hell, get another 1015. This time I put the motor in without removing the spindle and was surprised to find that the body still fitted. But again, the performance was unsatisfactory. At this point I'm on 1015 number three! Following a discussion elsewhere on the forum:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90035-mashima-1015-motor-low-torque-problem/

 

I decided as a last resort (other than assembling a new gearbox) was to try the more powerful 1024 in the same location. The 1024 clearly fits the available space, and with some ingenuity it might not even be necessary to remove the spindle. I test fitted it and the transformation in running was immediately noticeable, with a smooth performance at low speeds and plenty of spare torque to spin the wheels.

 

Not being able to find my cutting disks to remove the spindle, I resorted to something I've been told by at least one knowledgeable Rmwebber is totally impossible - snipping through the spindle with pliers. I used a heavy pair of the kind we tend to keep around the layout for stripping wire, snipping through cables and so on. Once again I got through the spindle in one clean cut, with no risk of heating the bearings or unseating the motor parts in any way. Yes, it takes a bit of oomph but it can be done. Or rather it can't, because it's impossible...

 

With the chassis now running well, I began transplanting the brake gear from the old chassis onto the new one. Having it all soldered up already made this a very quick job, and I was careful to test the chassis after adding each element, to make sure there was no contact between wheels and brakes, pull rods etc. With the chassis now ready for painting, I can push on with upgrading the body and tender - removing that hideous coal load, etc. As the moment the model is running on plain DC but if I choose to paint the Dean in BR black, it'll need a decoder - there's bags of room in that tender, though.

 

At the end of it all, I'm very pleased with the model. Although there have been a few frustrations along the way, I certainly learned a lot and the Dean looks beautiful when running. I'm not against tender drives at all when they're mechanically sophisticated and don't impede on the looks of the model - look at Roco's SNCF Pacific for how it should be done - but in the case of the Dean, the mechanism really did spoil the elegant looks of the original beneath the tender running plate. Mine was also a bit of an intermittent squealer (oddly, the tender drive units in the ex-Airfix 4F and 2P seem much less prone).

 

So you there you have it - a Dean Goods nearly ready to return to service. Now I have two or even three 1015 motors which need new homes ... so unless anyone's after one (PM me, of course) I'll be keeping an eye out for additional projects which can use these motors at the high revs for which they're engineered.

 

 

blogentry-6720-0-65333500-1418679760.jpg

 

Cheers! (And apologies to 10CC).

  • Like 12

9 Comments


Recommended Comments

Yes, I was thinking Barry Ten CC (but won't do it again).  Great photos of your work, as ever.  Very clearly written info too.

Link to comment

Looks good and I am glad it turned out right. Still not sure about the 1015 and high revs though. This was mentioned by a contributor on your post in motors and drives. From the data on the hollywoodfoundry site the 1015 and 1020 appear to have similar speed / power characteristics but the 1020 is twice the power / torque of its little brother. The 1024 is not quite the same, as it achieves top power at a little higher speed than it's brothers. It is still a lot more powerful and has more torque than the 1020.

 

With a 38:1 gearbox both the 1015 and 1020 are at peak power at 42 scale mph. The 1024 achieves top power at roughly 46 mph. A slightly higher ratio would probably be good for the 1015 / 1020. At 54:1 the top power speed is reduced to 30 mph.

 

I can't see how gearing the 1015 to screaming point will really help. It will still produce no power. The weak motor comment on th hollywoodfoundry site seems to sum it up.

 

Oakhill

 

PS can we see a photo of the tool that did the impossible. I have progressed from cutting disk ( v hot shaft) to diamond file (hot shaft) and would like to progress further.

 

 

Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

I'm really pleased you got this sorted Al.What glue is recommended for use with lead shot then to avoid the swelling problem encountered.

 

It might be worth mentioning to Andrew of Comet the motor use recommendation so he can advise new builders of this chassis.

Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

Glad to hear you got there Al.  Your perseverence is impressive. And as they say in the movies "Impossible is nothing!".

Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

6892, Robin: I don't really have experience to comment or advise on the different motor options, other than to say that in my case the 1024 seems a better option than the 1015. I put in a decoder last night, incidentally, and had the Dean plodding round at a nice slow goods speed with a decent train. A higher gearbox ratio would be even better, obviously, but that's well out of my area of expertise and I'd imagine Andrew will have a shrewd idea of the best motor options.

 

A lot of it will depend on factors that vary from layout to layout, too - like minimum radii, quality of tracklaying, wiring and so on - controller types, how the layout is operated - terminus to fiddleyard, continuous run, what the engine's expected to haul. I like to be able to set my engines running and leave them be while they trundle around at a steady rate. If you're only ever driving the loco from one end of a layout to another, you might be happier adjusting the controller to respond to the varying load.

 

Re: the pliers, I'm just talking about a common or garden pair here, nothing fancy - in fact probably not best to use the nicest ones in the toolkit. This kind or similar:

 

http://cdn.toolstation.com/images/130125-UK/images/library/stock/webbig/49992.jpg

 

The trick is to support the pliers on a hard surface, with one handle against that surface, then bring weight down onto the other handle, so you're applying more strength than just in your wrist. It works. At worst, you'll damage the blade of the pliers a bit so don't use a brand new pair - or keep a pair purely for snipping motor spindles.

Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

I hadn't tightened one of the screws holding the motor to the gearbox, meaning it was tending to slip out of mesh, so tonight's homework was to unsolder the outside brake rods, remove wheels and gearbox, retighten screws and reassemble. Fun! Frankly if I couldn't take the wheels on and off repeatedly, and get them easily quartered each time, I'd be stuffed. How modellers cope with Gibsons and Ultrascales I don't know, but I envy their abilities.

Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

Meant to add: I'm not sure what the recommended method of securing lead shot is nowadays. I've used PVA to secure it in wagons, on the assumption that there is room for it to swell without causing damage, but for locos I prefer to use sheet lead, cut into small pieces and glued in with cyano.

Link to comment

Looking very good indeed.  My own project is stalled for the time being until I get my airbrush booth set up in February.

 

I am glad you got the motor problem solved - I have yet to test mine with a decent load, so your motor swap may be in the cards for me also.

Link to comment

Gorgeous locomotive, Al.  Puts us here in the colonies to shame.  However, the photo with just the motor is a little unsettling....

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...