Interesting, bearing in mind the target market.  How many parents buying a train set are going to have a back to back gauge or even a concept of needing to check?  Hornby are not doing themselves any favours in this area and haven't been for a long time.  Imagine spending a small fortune and trying to get that running round in circles on Christmas Day.  Reminds me of a Hornby Princess Victoria 40 odd years ago...

Is it me or do the frames in front of the saddle look entirely different on the Dapol version?

Anyway, fascinating as ever, thank you.

Thanks Alun,  I think the smoke box saddles are the same, just the difference in viewing angle.

Hornby and quality control has been an issue for some time.  I was just wondering whether the RailRoad models are produced to a lower standard to keep costs down.

Speak again

Ray

I found removing the tender pickups was worth 2 extra coaches up a 1 in 36 and replacing the Mazak and decoder with lead gets the haulage up to my benchmark of a weighted Hornby Hall, at least a coach better than a Bachmann Hall. 

The cab and tender let the model down, the tender is more nearly an 8 foot wide  6 ton 4000 gallon Hall or Castle tender rather than an 8'6"  wide 7 ton 4000 gallon County tender and the cab is noticeably too narrow to match.  The cab roof also should be similar in profile to a King rather than rounded.  I have a Bristol Models County on a Triang chassis and it is a much more imposing and powerful beast, the extra width of the County really makes a difference.

As regards the prototype they were not really successful, Castle power with Hall costs was the design intention, and the boiler the Std 15 was based on a project for a high pressure Castle with a sloping throatplate and shorter barrel facilitated by using a larger Stanier 8F front tubeplate, it was not an 8F boiler as it was tapered while the 8F Black 5 etc boiler family were half cone  like the Pre 1909 GWR std no 1 boiler.

In service the Countys were very highly regarded when new as express speeds were low and loads high so they could be used turn and turn about with Kings but as scheduled speeds rose  their reputation faltered and the GW reverted to building Castles and Halls.

They developed a reputation for surging on starting which was uncomfortable for passengers and positively dangerous on goods which resulted in them being banned from freight workings at times.  Completely rebuilt or new boilers with different superheaters running at reduced pressure together with double chimneys and valve gear mods tamed them to a certain extent but they were most appreciated in the North and in West Wales were they worked with some distinction but generally their performance was no better than the smaller Saint class of 30 years earlier.

Ray,

Now that there are others at the helm one can only hope things will improve. that said it will still take quite a while for those improvements (if any) show through the system.

As for being produced at a lower standard.....it was supposedly only in the sense of more moulded items as opposed to seperate items as I understood it.
That doesn't excuse the very poor quality control.

When you look at all these things you have to wonder whether they are worth supporting.

As you pointed out bringing manufacturing back to the UK isn't going to solve the issues of quality control, and is only going to cost more for the product.

It looks more like accountants are running the show without having any idea what they are doing!

Khris

Thanks David

I do wonder at the need for the tender pick ups given that they only work for one rail!

Thank you for the background history - maybe  the design was rushed and certainly little time for prototype testing.

I am sure that there are ways of adding lead in place of the Mazak / DCC socket but when there is so much else to be changed I did wonder  - why bother..

I found removing the tender pickups was worth 2 extra coaches up a 1 in 36 and replacing the Mazak and decoder with lead gets the haulage up to my benchmark of a weighted Hornby Hall, at least a coach better than a Bachmann Hall. 

 

Speak again

Ray

Hello Kris

I don't often publish negative comments but as Alun has already said - Hornby are not doing themselves any favours.  It rather reminds me of the British Leyland saga around 1980 where cheaper materials, I am thinking steel in particular, rubbished the brand.

..It looks more like accountants are running the show without having any idea what they are doing!...

Thanks again

Ray

Hello Mikkel

Thank you for your valued comments.

... The idea of a cheap range of older models is fine, but not if it doesn't live up to basic standards.

 

I was most shocked to find that a lot of the improvements made by Hornby over the years to the original Dapol model had been wound back on the RailRoad model.  Appearance wise Hornby have gone back to 1984 - that is over thirty years.  

I don't think that is Design Clever at all.

Regards

Ray

The Dapol model supposedly went through two iterations before passing to Hornby.

The original effort did have problems in the firebox and cab - the join between the top rear of the firebox and the cab front was too low, making the cab look too tall. Your photo also shows that the front section of the cab roof also had an incorrect continuous curve instead of the distinct three arcs.

These flaws were supposedly corrected by Dapol, but the overall shape of the firebox was still wrong because of the width of the motor it contained. Tim Shackleton in his book Plastic-Bodied Locos went to the considerable trouble of removing the firebox moulding completely and making a new one which looked so much better. Jackson-Evans also used to produce a correction / detailing kit which I think included a new cab roof.

For me, the definitive 4mm scale County was the one built by the late Guy Williams for his last book More 4mm Engines.

Hello Horsetan

Thanks for filling in some of the details - especially the notes on the cab roof.

I knew about the firebox because I bought Dapol Merioneth and couldn't swap the chassis with Stafford because the motor was too big.

...The original effort did have problems in the firebox and cab - the join between the top rear of the firebox and the cab front was too low, making the cab look too tall. Your photo also shows that the front section of the cab roof also had an incorrect continuous curve instead of the distinct three arcs.

 

 

For me, the definitive 4mm scale County was the one built by the late Guy Williams for his last book More 4mm Engines.

Now- Guy Williams - a name from the past.  His name (and picture) frequently graced the pages of Railway Modeller in the 60s and 70s.

Thanks again

Ray

It is a class that could do with new tooling or a decent kit. Of the latter, both M&L and Falcon Brass had a go at it, though both had flaws.

Hello Horsetan

It ... could do with new tooling or a decent kit. ...

I guess part of the problem might be a lack of a prototype to measure up?

Regards

Ray

Dapol didn't have one to refer to either.

Hi Horsetan

Dapol didn't have one to refer to either.

Ah - so everybody has an excuse

Ray

So many issues it does rather put me off, but a very fine review thankyou  Ray.

Hi Rob

So many issues it does rather put me off, but a very fine review thankyou  Ray.

Don't know when this comment snook in but I have gladly approved!

Thank you too for your interest.  I have just today received from the Hornby Sale one of their 2-8-2T locos - A super model that runs well and has no faulty parts.  Hornby at their best.

Speak again

Regards

Ray

Hello Budgie

Not knowing - on here.  A very disappointing model - it has gone to a new home so I cannot check to see if it has pockets - I think not but cannot be sure.

Has anyone converted this loco to Kadee couplers?

Regards

Ray

Thanks for that confirmation.

No, It doesn't have NEM pockets. It has X9660 plastic tension-lock couplings that clips into position around a pin. It looks like I'm going to have to dismantle the tender chassis in order to remove the support for this coupling, and replace it with a Kadee 5 or equivalent.

The easy way to close couple is to replace the push in coupling with a Bachmann mini long or short (depending on the radius of your curves) - with the wings cut off and dropped in over the post.  (But then I don't use Kadees).

Regards

Ray

Thanks for the post Ray,

I've been thinking of getting one of the counties and then trying to detail it.  Excellent summary of the Railroad versus the earlier chassis.  Tempted to modify a set of earlier Wrenn slide bars to fit, hide the daylight above the front bogie and in the drag box area, as well as add sand boxes.

I recently bought another (current) Hornby Star class in the hope it had better tractive afford than initially released.  Same story: struggles to pull five coaches on my gradients where all my other locos (apart from recent Hornby Castles, B1s and K1s) easily haul double before they even think of a gentlest hint of spin.  

If only Hornby would work harder on getting weight in to the locomotive and also using a different metal on the driving wheel tyres!

CHeers,

John

Thanks John for all that information.  The standards of the Hornby Star and the Hall do seem to have slipped below the bar so to speak.

..I recently bought another (current) Hornby Star class in the hope it had better tractive afford than initially released.  Same story: struggles to pull five coaches on my gradients where all my other locos (apart from recent Hornby Castles, B1s and K1s) easily haul double before they even think of a gentlest hint of spin.  

 

If only Hornby would work harder on getting weight in to the locomotive and also using a different metal on the driving wheel tyres!.

I would love Hornby to get grip on their quality control.  I have had three Kings (very seasonal) through my hands in the last month and they have all had obvious problems.  Very poor on Hornby given the price of these models.  How much better to buy second hand Bachmann from a reputable seller - like my recent Blog Post.

Regards

Ray

Thanks for the advice on the Kings! I've had a similar experience with the current castle class locomotives.  Three bought and two failures. The remaining loco just about hangs in to its position in the fleet (until another manufacturer comes up with a GWR 4 cylinder product).  Cheers, John