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Cheddar P4 - December 2023 update


ullypug

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As another year draws to a close, modelling output has slowed a bit due to various demands on precious modelling time. But with 1 Station Road complete for now, I've been concentrating on a couple of projects that have been lurking on the depths of the modelling bench for far too long. The first is a diagram E116 B set, the origins of which were a K's plastic kit, kindly donated by Tim Venton of Clutton fame.

I needed to do quite a bit of salvage work on the sides and the ends were a bit hit and miss. The E116 was joined by a Tommy bar and had no intermediate buffers from what I can tell, so I've done what I can to tidy things up and add the various alarm gear. The under frames are Comet kits, bogies white metal sides over a Bill Bedford sprung frame. They've been awaiting their innards and glazing but have languished on the workbench waiting for their turn in the paint shop first, which has finally started. State of play at the moment is an initial pass of carmine and cream with the lining, ends and roof still to do, along with correcting some ride height issues.

 

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Second distraction is the camping coach which was stationed at Cheddar. This was W9902W from the pictures I have, a conversion from a diagram E73 composite. The basis of this one is a set of etches from Worsley Works, sitting on a pair of Dean 10ft bogies just introduced by MJT.

This coach will never move and consequently definitely has an 'A' side and a 'B' side, which will not be visible to the public and reflects my struggles with the forming of an acceptable joint line for the clerestory roof! It has just had a coat of primer which has revealed a few blemishes.

It should form a nice little cameo at the back of the layout once done.

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Useful to see a Worsley Works build, they don't feature on here often.

 

Can I ask: I see this one is listed as "Sides ends floor and clerestory roof". Does that mean you build the underframe yourself?

 

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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Useful to see a Worsley Works build, they don't feature on here often.

 

Can I ask: I see this one is listed as "Sides ends floor and clerestory roof". Does that mean you build the underframe yourself?

 

Hi Mikkel

The solebars are included so you have to make the trussing, queen posts and fittings. There are a couple of battery boxes included with the kit but from what I can see in photos, these were removed for camping coaches along with the dynamo. 
 

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10 minutes ago, ullypug said:

Hi Mikkel

The solebars are included so you have to make the trussing, queen posts and fittings. There are a couple of battery boxes included with the kit but from what I can see in photos, these were removed for camping coaches along with the dynamo. 
 

IMG_3416.jpeg

 

Thanks for the details and photo. I am waiting for a Clerestory kit to arrive from Worsley Works, which will be my first foray into their kits. Until now all my carriage kits have been from Comnet.

 

Its also interesting that MJT have now introduced a 10ft Dean bogie.

 

Thanks again, Neal.

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1 hour ago, ullypug said:

The solebars are included

 

Thanks, that's good news. With the MJT bogies it looks quite manageable then. Although it sounds as if the clerestories need some thinking.

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2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thanks, that's good news. With the MJT bogies it looks quite manageable then. Although it sounds as if the clerestories need some thinking.

They're quite tricky to form and in the absence of instructions, I built the body around the floor. I also soldered a strengthening piece at cantrail level meaning some of the roof ribs had to be cut to get the roof to fit.

 

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I've since removed the plasticard I added to replicate the plated clerestory vents. They were plated over on W9906W but not in transpires on W9902W. It's great when you find that reference photo after the event!

 

I also see that the recently re-announced Blacksmith range had a diagram E73 in its previous incarnation.

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On 11/12/2023 at 12:13, ullypug said:

I've since removed the plasticard I added to replicate the plated clerestory vents. They were plated over on W9906W but not in transpires on W9902W. It's great when you find that reference photo after the event!

Nothing like completing a model either to

- flush out a previously unknown photo or

- provoke the announcement of an RTR version.

Best wishes 

Eric

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  • RMweb Gold

TTBOMK. D116s never carried crimson/cream livey, but my knowledge of this subject is not inexaustible, and I'd be intereseted in any examples of non-gangwayed WR stock that did.  Crimson/cream was theoretically to be used for gangwayed stock, but in practice auto-trailers painted between 1948 and 1950 were given it (the story, and for all I know it might be true, was that Mr Riddles saw one while passing through Paddington about his business in 1950 and enquired what his best main-line livery was doing on a lowly auto-trailer, at which point the practice ceased and the plain crimson livery was used) and some gangwayed NPCCS was painted in plain crimson.

 

What should have happened was that any D116 set painted between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48 should have been painted in 1947 GW livery with no crest of other indication of ownership, and W prefixed numbers in GW script.  1/6/48-1956 should have been painted BR plain crimson with straw Gill Sans numbers and lettering, but some stock had Gill Sans while in GW choc/cream early 1948 BR version of GW 1947 livery; I couldn't say if any of these were D116s. 

 

But not crimson/cream AFAIK.

Edited by The Johnster
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On 14/12/2023 at 19:31, The Johnster said:

TTBOMK. D116s never carried crimson/cream livey, but my knowledge of this subject is not inexaustible, and I'd be intereseted in any examples of non-gangwayed WR stock that did.  Crimson/cream was theoretically to be used for gangwayed stock, but in practice auto-trailers painted between 1948 and 1950 were given it (the story, and for all I know it might be true, was that Mr Riddles saw one while passing through Paddington about his business in 1950 and enquired what his best main-line livery was doing on a lowly auto-trailer, at which point the practice ceased and the plain crimson livery was used) and some gangwayed NPCCS was painted in plain crimson.

 

What should have happened was that any D116 set painted between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48 should have been painted in 1947 GW livery with no crest of other indication of ownership, and W prefixed numbers in GW script.  1/6/48-1956 should have been painted BR plain crimson with straw Gill Sans numbers and lettering, but some stock had Gill Sans while in GW choc/cream early 1948 BR version of GW 1947 livery; I couldn't say if any of these were D116s. 

 

But not crimson/cream AFAIK.

Hmmm. you could well be right. I must admit I saw the pictures of the E116 B set at Minehead in the Russell book and assumed they were carmine and cream. I don’t want to attach the picture. Do you have that book?

 

I was chatting with Martin Goodall from the local EM group (and Great Western Study Group) on Thursday and he reinforced your and the ‘official’ position.

 

mind you I also had this conversation about an unlined green 14xx with early BR logo until I found the photo at Yatton.

 

Methinks a respray may be on the cards!

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold

There were certainly livery anomalies aplenty during the early BR transition, and they lasted for some time in traffic, because of several factors; the austerity economy meant that paint of the correct type was not available and what was to hand was used (though this was more common with goods stock), instructions were misinterpreted, perhaps sometimes deliberately (see the Riddles Paddington story), and different paint shops may have interpreted them differently as well. 

 

To take an example, W3338 was the last Clifton Downs compartment driving trailer in service.  It was originally withdrawn in 1947 in wartime brown livery, but re-instated in 1951, and given a one-off crimson lined livery not dissimilar to the later lined maroon, but with simpler lining.  Add to the mix a few cream-painted droplights from carriage shed spares to replace lights broken in service, and by the time it was withdrawn for the second and final time in 1955 it was breaking all sorts of livery rules, a product very much of the times! 

 

But I've never heard of blood'n'custard non-gangwayed stock.  Hornby, however, at one time released non-gangwayed shorty clerestories in this livery in a train set with a B12, presumably intended to represent GER coaches, and may have had some actual prototype of which I am not aware in mind when they did so; even their most odd stuff usually has some basis in reality, albeit sometimes tenuous, no matter how inaccurate the actual model is...

Edited by The Johnster
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It's most unlikely crimson /cream clerestories would represent ex GE stock, because one large-scale official anomaly was that pre-Grouping stock on the GE Section continued to be painted LNER brown at Stratford after nationalisation. As I understand it , the rationale was that the coaches concerned were not long for this world and therefore didn't merit the new livery. The Saffron Waldon push-pull sets were still in brown in the summer of 1956 (colour photo ) and presumably remained so until the stock concerned was withdrawn the following February...

 

GE 50' corridor stock seems to have been painted brown, too

Edited by Ravenser
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