That is amazing and I wonder at your patience! If you used solder Missy, then I see no trace of it! How did you clean it up so brilliantly - just a glassfibre pen?

It will look great when its detailed, painted and sitting on Highclere.

How will you glaze it and how will you detail the interior?

Regards

Chris

Hi Missy,

Speaking as someone who struggles to get the simple curve into a goods van roof, that looks pretty amazing to me! Any tips for the rest of us - did you anneal the brass?

Which railcar is it that you're modelling? (I know next to nothing about the early streamlined ones except that they seemed to be built in small batches, each slightly different).

Andy

If you look closely, there's a fair bit, well, there is given that the photos are a couple of times life-size, but all necessary and polished to within an inch of its life! That looks pretty impressive. How were you planning to make it go?

Adam

Here is the Tomix chassis I was referring to: TM-06 18m (9th one down). The 14mm wheelbase bogies at 80mm centres exactly match the prototype's 7ft at 40ft in 2mm scale, but is some 2.4mm too short on the centres for 1:148 scale. It doesn't sound much, but there were covers over the bogies that tended to be left off in later years and the bogies have to line up with them or they'd look wrong and move the panels and everything along the side wouldn't line up where it was supposed to. As you're doing it to 2mm scale you couldn't get more accurate for the basic dimensions!

Good luck with that roof - basically the centre part from about where the inner wheels are is a simple parallel eliptically curved profile roof (failrly flat over the centre), then it starts to dip down as it approaches the cab, still maintaining the same profile then finally tapers with the centreline curving gently to meet the line through the cab driving windows. Sounds like a job for plasticard, filler and templates (to keep both ends identical - and the roof ends any more railcars!).

Regarding the area below the cab windows, this should meet the rising bufferbeam fairing with a fairly sharp creaseline; in effect two shapes that only resolve at the very centre below the 'GWR' roundel.

Missy, looks brilliant.

To me it looks like an AEC railcar built around 1934. Are you doing it with the buffet unit inside, without buffet or as a parcels one ?

Probably THE most complex shaped GWR "thing" you could build

Congrats

Regards

Graham

You never cease to amaze Missy. I'm still contemplating how I'm going to tackle some clerestory coaches, and here you are taking on streamlining, curves and angles. Inspirational as always, well done and eagerly looking forward to seeing the finished outcome.

That is amazing and I wonder at your patience! If you used solder Missy, then I see no trace of it! How did you clean it up so brilliantly - just a glassfibre pen?

It will look great when its detailed, painted and sitting on Highclere.

How will you glaze it and how will you detail the interior?

Regards

Chris

Hi Chris.

Thank you. I use a mix of a sanding disk in a mini drill, various files, and finish with 320 grit wet and dry emery paper. I use the files to roughly shape the area, and the sanding disc to sand to the correct profile, the emery then smooths everything off. As the original etches are quite thin the plan is to glaze it by simply sticking clear plastic to the inside once it is painted. I will probably end up fitting a false floor in the railcar once the chassis is fitted (when it arrives) but the plan is to fit some kind of seats and hopefully one or two passengers.

Hi Missy,

 

Speaking as someone who struggles to get the simple curve into a goods van roof, that looks pretty amazing to me! Any tips for the rest of us - did you anneal the brass?

 

Which railcar is it that you're modelling? (I know next to nothing about the early streamlined ones except that they seemed to be built in small batches, each slightly different).

 

Andy

Hello Andy.

Thank you. I didnt anneal the Brass this time. I have just been paitent and formed the brass so it fits the area well before soldering it in making sure it fits without having to hold it in place and it 'springing' out of shape. I then 'tack' solder it in position, check again, then once I am happy flood the join with solder. This time I havent been frugual with the solder and spent extra time sanding back the excess solder. One thing I have learnt is that if you are quick you can apply more solder to an area without it effecting the other areas if you take the soldering iron away as soon as the solder flows onto the metal, this way you can slowly build up an area with solder (basically use it like a filler). Thank you to Russel for teaching me that trick.

The railcar is supposed to be railcar number 12 as I have a picture of that one on the DN&SR. According to the book its an AEC one with a toilet.

If you look closely, there's a fair bit, well, there is given that the photos are a couple of times life-size, but all necessary and polished to within an inch of its life! That looks pretty impressive. How were you planning to make it go?

 

Adam

Hiya Adam.

Thanks. I am planning (as Bernard says) on using a tomix chassis which I have on order from Osborns Models.

Here is the Tomix chassis I was referring to: TM-06 18m (9th one down). The 14mm wheelbase bogies at 80mm centres exactly match the prototype's 7ft at 40ft in 2mm scale, but is some 2.4mm too short on the centres for 1:148 scale. It doesn't sound much, but there were covers over the bogies that tended to be left off in later years and the bogies have to line up with them or they'd look wrong and move the panels and everything along the side wouldn't line up where it was supposed to. As you're doing it to 2mm scale you couldn't get more accurate for the basic dimensions!

Good luck with that roof - basically the centre part from about where the inner wheels are is a simple parallel eliptically curved profile roof (failrly flat over the centre), then it starts to dip down as it approaches the cab, still maintaining the same profile then finally tapers with the centreline curving gently to meet the line through the cab driving windows. Sounds like a job for plasticard, filler and templates (to keep both ends identical - and the roof ends any more railcars!).

Regarding the area below the cab windows, this should meet the rising bufferbeam fairing with a fairly sharp creaseline; in effect two shapes that only resolve at the very centre below the 'GWR' roundel.

Hello Bernard.

Thank you for the advice. As I have mentioned above I have the chassis on order from Maurice and once it arrives I will start fitting it. He did say that I will have to lengthen the chassis to fit but this is an easy job to do (apparantly!).

Missy, looks brilliant.

 

To me it looks like an AEC railcar built around 1934. Are you doing it with the buffet unit inside, without buffet or as a parcels one ?

 

Probably THE most complex shaped GWR "thing" you could build

 

Congrats

 

Regards

 

Graham

Hello Graham.

Thank you. I am doing the one without the buffet with just a toilet.

You never cease to amaze Missy. I'm still contemplating how I'm going to tackle some clerestory coaches, and here you are taking on streamlining, curves and angles. Inspirational as always, well done and eagerly looking forward to seeing the finished outcome.

Hi Missy - Its looking really good now - I would have started by rewheeling the Farish one to 2FS but you have jumped in at the deep end and are swimming admirably - keep going, its gonna be great once complete - Pete

Hiya Neb and Pete.

Thank you. I hope you guys are inspired by it. It does show that with a little paitence things are possible!

Thank you guys.

Missy

Hi Missy.

Your work is a constant inspiration to me

Not only is the work to an excellent standard, it's always so clean.

Without wishing to paint froth, will it be crimson & cream or green, assuming it is BR period you are doing ?

Brilliant stuff, but all the more so because it is "flea scale" !!!

Phil

Hi Missy.

Your work is a constant inspiration to me

 

Not only is the work to an excellent standard, it's always so clean.

 

Without wishing to paint froth, will it be crimson & cream or green, assuming it is BR period you are doing ?

 

Brilliant stuff, but all the more so because it is "flea scale" !!!

Phil

Hi Phil

Thank you. My modelling may not be the fastest around by a long way but I always stick with something until I am totally happy with it. A good example is it has taken me all weekend (on and off) to get the shape of the roof ends right! I feel with something like this it has to look right otherwise I just would not do the fantastic prototype justice.

When I eventually get round to painting it (which I am really looking forward to) it will be Crimson and Cream.

Missy

As I have mentioned above I have the chassis on order from Maurice and once it arrives I will start fitting it. He did say that I will have to lengthen the chassis to fit but this is an easy job to do (apparantly!).

I'm not sure why he says you'll need to extend it as the dimensions are right as it comes for 2mm scale. Perhaps that will be clearer once it arrives. AFAIK the Tomix unit is fairly low and drives one bogie so it should let a good deal of daylight through the windows.

You're doing a great job on one of the more difficult steam era shapes; they're really stylish machines and quite a change from the usual Farish angular type. If you're doing it in Crimson & Cream you perhaps should look at loosing the bogie covers; I don't recall seeing any in place in post-war photos, though saying that might bring up a suitable exception! Keep up the excellent work

 

I'm not sure why he says you'll need to extend it as the dimensions are right as it comes for 2mm scale. Perhaps that will be clearer once it arrives. AFAIK the Tomix unit is fairly low and drives one bogie so it should let a good deal of daylight through the windows.

You're doing a great job on one of the more difficult steam era shapes; they're really stylish machines and quite a change from the usual Farish angular type. If you're doing it in Crimson & Cream you perhaps should look at loosing the bogie covers; I don't recall seeing any in place in post-war photos, though saying that might bring up a suitable exception! Keep up the excellent work

Hello Bernard

Thank you for your reply. Its weird but I just realised the fact the BR ones didnt have covers on yesterday and was starting to think how I could easily chop them off so I am glad you are thinking the same thing. One of things I am worried about though as you mentioned is the height of the chassis unit thing, I really hope it doesnt creep too much into the inside of the coach!

While I am here typing I do have a question about the lights. They seem to have three lights, two at bufferbeam level and one above the cab, which ones were what colours? Do you (or anyone else) know?

Thank you.

Missy

One thing I have learnt is that if you are quick you can apply more solder to an area without it effecting the other areas if you take the soldering iron away as soon as the solder flows onto the metal, this way you can slowly build up an area with solder (basically use it like a filler).

This is essentially how all motor vehicle bodies were repaired and filled before the advent of polyester fillers. The alternative for those of us more cackhanded with the soldering iron is to use a low voltage iron and low temperature solder for filler work.

Exceptional bit of building- I would struggle with that as a plastic kit, never mind one completely made from flat brass sheets! The cabs look like a total bstard to do and that roof sounds complicated...

This is essentially how all motor vehicle bodies were repaired and filled before the advent of polyester fillers. The alternative for those of us more cackhanded with the soldering iron is to use a low voltage iron and low temperature solder for filler work.

Exceptional bit of building- I would struggle with that as a plastic kit, never mind one completely made from flat brass sheets! The cabs look like a total bstard to do and that roof sounds complicated...

Hello devondynosoar

I would have used low melt solder to fill the ends but there are a few details I need to add still and I didnt want to undo all that sanding. I really must get to grips with using different temperature solders as for things like this it would make it easier. Thank you for the comment though, as you say it wasnt very straightforward to do but sometimes I like a little challenge, plus at the end of it all I hopefully will end up with something not many people have got. Fingers crossed Dapol or Farish dont produce one soon!

Missy

Hi Missy

As someone has already said, this is possibly the most difficult GWR shape you will ever have to form. Well done it looks superb. I have been resisting buying any more kits until I make some progress with what I have already, but your account has inspired me to get one and have a go.

Peter

Hi Missy

 

As someone has already said, this is possibly the most difficult GWR shape you will ever have to form. Well done it looks superb. I have been resisting buying any more kits until I make some progress with what I have already, but your account has inspired me to get one and have a go.

 

Peter

Hello Peter

Thank you. Its cool that you have picked up enough inspiration to have a go yourself, Im sure you will make a fantastic job of it and if there is anything I can do to help then please let me know. When you are ready let me know and I can send you the template for the bit at the ends which form the curved bit and are missing from the kit.

Missy

I just realised the fact the BR ones didnt have covers on yesterday and was starting to think how I could easily chop them off so I am glad you are thinking the same thing. One of things I am worried about though as you mentioned is the height of the chassis unit thing, I really hope it doesnt creep too much into the inside of the coach!

 

While I am here typing I do have a question about the lights. They seem to have three lights, two at bufferbeam level and one above the cab, which ones were what colours? Do you (or anyone else) know?

As the bogies are to scale you should just about be OK for clearance, but I'd think about solding some milled angle ('T' section?) to the back of the valence edges, possibly before cutting.

The later railcars had four lights, one of which (on the front crease line) was red. On the pre-war cars there was possibly another red light towards the centre lower down; it's shown on some drawings, but there are few clear photos to confirm it. However, I've not seen any BR period pictures with them in use. In fact they seemed to carry the standard white tail-lamp on the back (standard rear bracket, not GWR headlamp side bracket) and nothing on the front.

There was a good colour picture of W12W in BackTrack 22/1 January 2008, though the platform hides all the bogie details - not to worry as there's W17W on the opposite page fully exposed!

Hi Missy,

As well as removing the bogie covers in BR days, the drive shafts between the two axles were also removed, so each bogie was only driven on its inner axle.

As to the electric lights, this type was built with three white lights. Two inboard of the buffer pins with their centres just above those of the buffers. The third was central above the cab windows and between the vents in the front of the roof section. An red tail light was also provided. This was mounted centrally slightly below the level of the buffer pins. The lenses on all four were 2 11/16" diameter.

A lamp bracket was fitted later to take a conventional tail lamp and I believe they normally used this in BR days.

Nick

EDIT: crossed with Bernard's posting. The light locations on most of the drawings I've seen of the early streamlined batches do not correspond with any photographs. I recommend Colin Judge 'The History of the Great Western AEC Diesel Railcars' as it has many drawings and photos, including several of No 12 and contemporaries in as built condition. Unfortunately there are fewer good views of the streamliners in later days.

We also discussed lights, amongst other things, in this thread.

Part of the problem with the drawings is that they show a number of 'round things' along the cowling front which may be lights, air horns or something else! And many of these drawings only show the original intention (at best) and then they got altered piecemeal over the years. Sadly no 'Gloucester' bodied units survived so we are reliant on photos and other sources. Not that preserved stock is always 100% reliable as a source of information!

Hello

Thank you Nick and Bernard for your detailed replies, its information like that which helps so much especially with all the little bits and pieces.

I am definately going to cut away the bogie covers on the sides. This of course now means I am thinking on how to recreate the bogies on the chassis when it arrives. I have had a browse through the book and although the bogie sides are quite plain there are some weird axleboxes / gearboxes to build. I will have to think this through a bit more...

As for lights and the reason for asking is I really want to fit lights to it so it can run on Highclere in the dark but although the book shows the position (as you two mention) it doesnt mention the colours. Thinking about the model its definately a job for a bit of fibre optic as the actual lights are so small, lets hope they are bright enough!

Thank you.

Missy

Hello Peter

 

Thank you. Its cool that you have picked up enough inspiration to have a go yourself, Im sure you will make a fantastic job of it and if there is anything I can do to help then please let me know. When you are ready let me know and I can send you the template for the bit at the ends which form the curved bit and are missing from the kit.

 

Missy

Thanks Missy, I'll bear that in mind.

Peter

Adding lights has been on the TODO list for my Hornby 4mm railcar for some time My plan is to use some 1mm fibre which will give a close approximation to the size of the lens plus the external bezel, so I guess 0.5mm would do the trick for you.

One point to remember is that they only carried class A or class B headlights so, unless you want to be able to do some high speed main line running, you can get away with only lighting the upper central front light. The problem comes with the tail lamp as it needs to be removable (unless you only run in one direction). I did wonder whether this might be done by having a short section of fibre in the lamp body which plugs into a small hole in the body to pick up the light, though light leakage might be a problem.

As to brightness, well, the originals were quite dim

Nick

Adding lights has been on the TODO list for my Hornby 4mm railcar for some time My plan is to use some 1mm fibre which will give a close approximation to the size of the lens plus the external bezel, so I guess 0.5mm would do the trick for you.

 

One point to remember is that they only carried class A or class B headlights so, unless you want to be able to do some high speed main line running, you can get away with only lighting the upper central front light. The problem comes with the tail lamp as it needs to be removable (unless you only run in one direction). I did wonder whether this might be done by having a short section of fibre in the lamp body which plugs into a small hole in the body to pick up the light, though light leakage might be a problem.

 

As to brightness, well, the originals were quite dim

 

Nick

Hi Nick

Thanks again for the help. I have some 0.5mm fibre optic around somewhere so I can use that. I am not sure the removable tail lamp is really possible though, remember its 2mm scale! Are you sure there wasnt a red light on the railcar? I know in BR times they used a tail lamp as you suggest but there must have been one on the railcar already!

Missy

 

Hi Nick

 

Thanks again for the help. I have some 0.5mm fibre optic around somewhere so I can use that. I am not sure the removable tail lamp is really possible though, remember its 2mm scale! Are you sure there wasnt a red light on the railcar? I know in BR times they used a tail lamp as you suggest but there must have been one on the railcar already!

 

Missy

Hi Missy,

Yes, there was a red light, it is the central one roughly at buffer height. It was certainly used pre-nationalisation though whether anyone replaced failed bulbs in BR days...

There's an interesting extract from the 1936 rule book at the end of the Judge volume that makes it clear that the electric tail light was the norm, but that each railcar had to carry a conventional oil tail light for use when it was parked in sidings or for emergency use.

Nick