MarshLane

Merry Christmas Dave (and family), Here is to much more push-pull and 'tractor' action from Waverley in 2024. Rich

Hi Duncan, What is the size (length/width) of the layout? Sorry to hear your selling ... but assuming you have a new project up your sleeve? Rich

Martin, Apologies that questions were not asked in the way you wanted them. I asked it on here, as it seemed logical given the 3D work and could be relevant to anyone else reading the thread, which would not have been the case had I asked on the Templot forum. I do not often look at the Templot forum, but look at rmWeb everyday, and I knew from your responses you visited regularly. Also to the best of my knowledge (unless I have missed anything - apologies if so) there was nothing relevant to quote in relation to the query. Also I mentioned you because, it is 'your' project and I know you've researched a lot of things in detail - different printers, different techniques, different resins etc. I should add that I felt I was being respectful by directing the query directly you as asking for your thoughts. However, I do not wish to detract from John's work and progress any further, so I'll not ask anything else, and let's draw a line under things at that point. Rich

Martin, Thanks for your reply. I do think there seems to be lot of hostility to the mere mention of your 3D project for anyone using anything but your words, my query was not intended to provoke such comments, merely ask for your views, if you had any. As for promoting, well I'll agree to disagree on that one, as different people will view things in different ways. I have no idea where this comes from @martin_wynne. Reading back on my post I believe I said "I wondered what your view was" and followed this up with "I'd be interested to hear your thoughts". Please tell me where I said it was your responsibility? My post was simply the result of a discussion between two friends which set me thinking, and given the way you've gone about 3D track work (for the avoidance of doubt any further mis-accuasions which is experimental and your own hobby project that others are welcome to join in) I was interested to hear your thoughts on longevity. Indeed, I stressed in my original post that the query was not criticism at all. I would have thought somebody asking, what to me seemed to be a very valid question, would have been a positive - perhaps the best answer was from @hayfield - thank you for that John, really useful thoughts. As with anything new, there are always unknowns in the mix. As I said I dont have any 3D experience or knowledge, so do feel that part of your comments shot down somebody for asking legitimate question. I have enjoyed and been very interested in following Hayfield's adventures with his 3D printer, and congratulate you on what you have achieved with your 3D track work and Templot - please Martin ... dont take in any other way than praise. Rich

@martin_wynne, Sorry to hijack John's thread. I was talking to a friend of mine this afternoon who is involved in the use of commercial 3D printing as part of his day job - nothing to do with railways or models - and while he has a bit of an interest in model railways it doesn't extend beyond the Hornby trainset approach, fair enough each to their own. But we were talking about various things and I was telling him what you had been doing with 3D printing of timbers and chairs, giving cost-effective, detailed, bespoke point and track work. He raised a few eyebrows and commented (please note I am not saying this is the defacto position, it is just his personal view) that given his experience of 3D resin especially in his day job, his view was while it is improving, the development of the resins was not yet at a level for model railway use, even for hobbyists - that opinion being based on the durability and longer-term use of the 3D printed items. His view was that model railways tend to be long-term projects, and (my emphasis) in his view and opinion the resins that are around currently, at the prices people would be willing to pay, do not have the longer term life that would be necessary. Now ok, we did not define how long the long-term period was, but the inference was that over time the resin would/could start to be breakdown. I commented that the initial output from various people looked very good, and I had read that you'd been working on the 3D track project for a couple of years now, maybe longer. I am assuming, given your scientific approach to things that some of the early FDM and resin prints you did are still hanging around purposely to see how things survive long term. But I wondered what your view was - obviously if the resin does breakdown over a period or after exposure to sunlight and becomes brittle that would be an issue, and I acknowledge there are a large number of different resin and fillament types. It may well be (unbeknown to me) that the types of source material being suggested are better quality or better for long-term use. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts - for my part, can I say I have no experience of 3D printing and neither me (nor my mate) are claiming to be experts. It was just two modellers talking things through - so there is no criticism or doubting in anyway of the work Martin is doing, promoting or experimenting with. Rich

Great to see an update from Leeds City. Look forward to more in the fullness of time! Rich

I am sure we could adapt one of those tiny little Chinese made mp3 players to play live music from the band through 4mm scale speakers :). You could become the British equivalent of Miniature Wunderland Andy!! :) Hope your keeping well mate. Rich

Not sure if anyone has picked these up, but I am told that these are being produced in HO with other gauges to follow... See https://www.flickr.com/photos/124028679@N04/ for further images, liveries and models. NO connection, just found them!

Nice work with those. Are the rivets half etched, or marked on the rear and punched? Rich

Logical thought - but also I find that when I post something, its not validation, its just to say hey this is what I am doing today - it almost gives me an incentive to get the next bit done. But very much each to their own, especially when real life gets in the way! Also remember your not limited to this thread, so you could just pop a picture and a few quick works on the 'Whats on my 3mm Workbench' thread. Glad your bits and pieces have arrived - I think I have caused the 3mm Sales chap a headache today with my order! Oops!! But whatever you do, take your time (there's no rush!) but make sure you enjoy what your doing! Challenges are definitely there to be overcome and learnt from, but remember the old adage, if at first you dont succeed .... dont throw it at the wall and give up! 😆 Walk away calmly, breathe and come back another day! Good luck with the journey, I'll keep following your progress.

Hi William, Sorry for the late reply, only just seen your thread. I have dabbled with 2FS, thoughts of EM, and actively modelled in 4mm OO and 7mm O gauge, not to mention narrow gauge and standard gauge! The one thing that dabbling with 2FS has taught me is that no matter how much planning, interest, theory and plans you have, the only way to go forward is to jump in and try it. Work initially with something small, if it goes wrong, you can throw it away without wasting much (if any) money and attack the problem from a different point of view. I long looked at people on here and thought I wouldn't have the skill to do that. But (possibly with getting older!) I came round to the realisation that skills are developed, because you don't have a skill this year doesn't mean you won't do things that develop that skill next year. I joined the 3mm Society initially with the idea of acquiring some Code 60 rail for a 009 narrow gauge layout. But then I got sent the wagon kit with the members pack. Built it as something different to do one evening, it came out well and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Showed a friend who then decided he might go down the 3mm road, and I ended up putting a brass coach from Worsley Works together for him - not my finest work, I subsequently took it all apart, cleaned it up and built it again! He subsequently decided that being in his 60s he was too old (his words!) to change, and stayed with 4mm, and 'gifted' me the few things I'd built for him. Now I am working on a small 3mm 14.2mm diorama with some wagons, a couple of carriage sidings to display the coaches and I am going to try scratch building the chassis for a small LNER tank, with aspirations to get to something a bit bigger. The point of all of this is to say, don't give up, give it a try - start small maybe build a coach, and scratch build the bogies to go under it (you can get the bogie detail sides from the Society Shop) if that works, then a diesel bogie is much the same, but with a few extra calculations for the motor. Above all else, shout if you get stuck - possibly on one of the scratch building or kit building threads on rmweb and you'll probably get more help - but keep the 3mm section up-to-date on your progress, oh and the egroup of course! Talking of which over Christmas I may find some time to get my thread started on here! Richie

Thanks Bob, Really appreciate that. I'll go with the 15.2mm option from the Assoc. Shop as they are standard Mk1 coaches. Cheers Rich

Can anyone tell me what length the axle is on a standard Bachmann/GF Mark 1 coach please? I'm looking to order some 2FS replacements from the Association shop, but mine are currently all packed away and not an easy reclaim for a 30 second measure! Any help would be appreciated chaps. Rich

Ian, You really cannot describe Modbury as a train set! Wonderful and superb piece of landscape modelling containing a 2mm to the foot railway yes .. but train set no!!! Hope to see it at exhibition sometime, but it was great to spend a few hours with it when you attended the NMAG meeting. It shows the skill of your modelling to perfection. Rich

Hi Dave, Have a look at Laurie Adam's 2mm Finescale Layout Yeovil Town - it's in the 2mm Finescale section on here. Laurie is modelling the Southern in steam days, but has some very long curves on his track which are canted - in that respect N gauge is no different to 2FS. I'm sure Laurie (@Laurie2mil) will not hold it against you that your modelling the post steam era or that its N gauge rather than 2mm Finescale, and would pop a couple of notes on of what and how he did it. I think it was 1mm card if I remember right, but there was a gradual rise and fall. I did a video a few weeks back which is on Laurie's thread of a couple of DMU units going round the curves which show it off. Love what you are doing with the new section section, I can see the 'Shap' effect coming on very well here. Rich

Oh yes please Michael, if Rich is happy with that. I am mulling, ponding, obsessing, over a little working diorama of Tramway Centre in Bristol, which was beside Broad Quay around the Floating Harbour area (very very early days I have to add!) but it occurred to me the Lighter (thanks for the right name for it!) that Rich had modelled would probably have been seen in that area, and I was looking for some inspiration :) Rich .. assuming Midland In Bristol is still in your ownership/railway establishment/hobby shed (delete as applicable!) could you give me a length/width measurement? If I decide to go any further I'll do some proper research on them! Rich

Hi Tim, Ah no problem. I am looking to create something similar in either white metal or some thing of that ilk, so thought I would ask. As an aside, I dont comment much, but admire CF and it provides much inspiration, especially your updates on how things have been done. Keep going! Rich

Hi Tim, Sorry to dredge back on an old post. But you refer to a 3D printed column, which you'd said in a previous post would be converted into a strong alloy. Can I ask which foundry you used to do this, and (if its not impertinent) was this a special agreement for you/MRC, or do they do hobbyist work in general? Rich

Rich, If you get time, any chance of replacing (or reposting) some of the lost photos? I am particularly interested in the river occupant (ok the boat - or whatever the technical name is!) for some ideas, and to be honest, its way too good not to be on here anyway! Rich

If I have nightmares and struggle to sleep now, I'm blaming you :) Nice progress on the extension track work Jerry, very envious both of the space and the progress you're making!!! ;) Keep going... Rich

Yes you see I have always thought a proper acceleration curve is similar to that attached (very poor representation on my part) ... it takes sheer power and tractive effort to get a weight moving, but once it is acceleration to a set speed is reasonably constant (assuming a level route, no signalling etc..) but to get from that specific speed to operating speed, line speed or max speed takes a lot more time. I did a cab ride once on an HST and the driver was saying, once you get the train moving, getting to 80-90mph is relatively quick and easy. But the stretch from 90 to 125mph takes a lot longer. But it is this kind of curve that I was originally looking to replicate. I think on hindsight I think working on a mathematical equation that can create a realistic acceleration, and be varied depending on the load is going to be the better option. I probably need to dig out my old Graphical Calculator from uni days!! Rich

@RAF96 Thanks for highlighting that. I have downloaded the NMRA document but haven't yet had chance to go through it. Much appreciated. I wonder in some respects if I am doing my usual thing and trying to make it too complicated. The DCC acceleration works reasonably well, although not perfect, but if it is simply working on a value multiplied by 0.896, divided by the speed steps, that is a simple approach. I was approaching it from the point of view that acceleration is not a constant, and getting a train moving (such as a 36 wagon MGR or long rake of loaded TEA tanks) would take longer, than actually increasing the speed once the train is moving, and taking into account that getting to one speed (for example) 35mph would be achieved quicker than the next step from 35mph-50mph (again for example). Rich

Thanks for that Susie, useful - I didn't think about looking at the MERG decoder, and really should have done - especially as I am a member! Thanks Nigel, interesting thought. I am playing about with a version of a decoder idea, but in the style of a DC controller, using a modernised cab-control system. I dont want to go down the DCC road for a variety of reasons. It's also partly a 'can I actually achieve it' project. I have been playing with it for a couple of years now on and off, the hardware side I think is sorted, based on a PIC18F chip. But I want the controller (when in an auto mode) to accelerate a 1,100 ton coal train far slower than a two-car Class 108! So I came up with the idea of establishing acceleration/deceleration graphs (although the more I thought about it, the more complex it became as the graph is obvious different for each speed, trailing load etc.) but it issues with how such data could be stored and easily referenced. That led me to wonder how the DCC decoders do it (although I acknowledge its a far simpler approach with just light engine or load options). I know there are various people in MERG working on similar options, but they are slightly different to how I envisage this system working, and as I say, I wanted to prove to myself I could actually achieve it. Id welcome any thoughts if anyone has them. Rich

Hi @jamesed Thanks, not quite. I get that the decoders allow programming of the CV values to increase or decrease the rate of acceleration and deceleration .. but I am thinking more of the software on the chip ... what does it do with that number (and how) to give the inertia control. It must use a maths equation or amend a predefined acceleration or deceleration curve which it reads to then direct the motor outputs. Rich

A question for the technically minded among us. On a DCC chip there is inertia - Zimo chips with a @pauliebanger Paul Chetter sound project on them for example generally have inertia that represents a trailing load or a light engine. My question is how is this data stored or calculated in the chip, regardless of the manufacuter? I am assuming there must be some formula for acceleration or deceleration (coasting to a stand) and while not perfect, it does provide more far realism than the sudden stops and stars. But there cannot be that much space for data storage in relation to speed, time, velocity changes etc.. Can anyone enlighten me? Rich