wagonman

Yes indeed, Lightmoor have done a lot for us all. I think the last new "must-have" photo was several months ago; it's just a question of finding a place in the queue of new books. This volume is indeed keenly anticipated – not least by me – as I started work on it 30 years ago!

I'm glad to hear it – he's had the manuscript since about January!

My understanding is that a 'Van Third' would have had a guard's compartment and a generous luggage area. A 'Brake Third' would have had a guard's compartment too, but little or no space for luggage – T27 I think was a case in point having a central guard's compartment flanked on both sides by a pair of compartments (it was a 4/6 wheel vehicle). There were a number of other diagrams with a similar arrangement – many of them later had two of the compartments ripped out and turned into luggage space whereupon they would have become 'Van Thirds' as far as carriage working books were concerned.

Yes, good to hear they are being rebuilt, but the use of blockwork is perverse – the whole point of the Eassie buildings being in wood is that they were largely prefabricated in the Gloucester factory, much like Boulton & Paul were doing in Norwich (mostly things like pavilions etc but also whole houses, and later aeroplanes!).

Hi Tim. The basic proportions I gleaned from the drawing of Lydney Junc in the Wild Swan "Severn & Wye Railway" Volume 1. Assuming the dimensions were pretty much standard, I produced my own rough working drawing based on photos in the same publisher's book on the Golden Valley branch. The structure is from Evergreen styrene (shiplap) while the slates are done the hard way using 5thou styrene – probably why its finally started to warp. The decorative ridge tiles are by Scalelink. Anything left is by me!

The main station building for 'Colerne' based on the William Eassie designs used on the Golden Valley Railway. This is Abbeydore, more or less. I've just noticed a bit of warping in the eaves!

The solebars appear to be channel rather than bulb but otherwise are very convincing – for me the only jarring note (leaving aside arguments about colour) are the end stanchions which look like those fitted in the 1930s. They should be parallel with just a short angle (about 45°) at the top. For 1890s style they would have to remove the second set of brakes and retro-fit grease boxes!

Just a thought... wouldn't the ironwork have been black?

You are quite right of course, I could renumber it though I do generally prefer to model a specific prototype (in other words I don't know any numbers of suitable wagons!). By the way, if you want guidance with a scratchbuild I'd happily oblige.

Thanks to Nick we have established that 5141 was in fact an 18' long wagon (at least) so bear that in mind when anyone starts to build it! Or, in my case, rebuild it. On the really nit-picky level, notice too that it has 9-leaf springs in stead of the later 4 or 5. No. 4373 additionally has quite thick spacing pads between the headstock and the 4-rib buffer housing which seems to be absent, or at least minimal, on 5141. As to width, I find it hard to believe that 7' 5" for the width was internal – wagons weren't built that wide until the 1920s.

I also have the Combined volume! Wagon 4373 is clearly 18' OH – the GWR always seemed to use the Over Headstocks measurement at least when defining which of its standard underframes was being used with 15' 6" giving way to 16' and that in turn giving way to 17' 6" in the 1920s. That they had single plank wagons of a variety of lengths is a little surprising as it is difficult to discern any traffic requirement for such wagons. It could of course be that some are conversions from BG stock – I've not seen the relevant Lot books so cannot say for certain. I presume that wagon 5141 was one of the 950 'standard' 15' 6" x 7' 5" wagons (or rather would have been if it hadn't been scrapped by 1917) and that the dimensions are external – I would agree with you that the authors seem to be slightly confused about internal/external measurements. GWR wagon construction of the 1860s and 1870s seems to be an area we know too little about...

Yes it is 15' 6" OH and a 9' wheelbase, though mine has a single wooden brake block and was built from a photo in one of the wagon books (Atkins/Beard/Hyde/Tourret Vol 1 page 53). The actual wagon was condemned on 22 October 1908 at Bridgwater so just fits into my c1906 time frame. In scratchbuilding terms it is as straightforward as it gets – the only odd things about it are the 4-rib buffers and the older form of grease 'box. The coupling chain is fitted shackle style rather than gedged into the hook but in 4mm one can probably ignore that [/heresy] Forgot to add that the 1 and 2 plank wagons had wooden underframes while the 3plank have bulb iron like contemporary minks.

A few more. Front row 1- 2- and 3-plank opens (all scratchbuilt) with more Coopercraft kits behind. Top left is an O5 as intended with DC1 brakes, angled ends to the headstocks, oil 'boxes (and no couplings – oops). Etched brake levers move so brakes can appear to be 'on'...

Here is one of my earlier efforts with the Coopercraft kit (it's compensated rather than sprung) but it probably illustrates most of the points Nick was making. Quite a few modifications: brake lever and ratchet, squared off ends to the headstocks, bolt heads inside the wagon body, top of solebar moulding sawn off to give full depth inside, support post for the V-hanger (I confess I don't know the proper name for this but it is often quite visible), metal buffers (natch), new label clip at the LH end of the solebar, and of course the MJT grease 'box castings. Underneath there is a much lead as I could cram in! I have 4 or 5 of these in 'service' – actually mostly sitting on a shelf gathering dust – along with various 1- 2- and 3-plank wagons, one of the latter being from a Geen kit, the rest scratchbuilt. My main problem is that most of them are in earlier livery and should probably be painted red rather than grey; in this case life really is too short, though I will repaint my 7mm scale versions. Eventually.

Don't forget that the 3-plank wagons were only 15' 6" long...

I seem to remember, back when I was a teenager, catching a train to Trowbridge (change for Devizes) that started from the up bay in c1960. I also remember nearly jumping out of my skin when the S/Vs on the small prairie at he head of the train lifted just as I was watching a down main line train draw in. Probably why it's stuck.... If Rabs does decide to move his time frame to pre-war days (very sensible move) he could legitimately run Corporation trams.

Interesting project, but as an exiled Londoner I feel I ought to point out that Lots Road is SW10, not SW7. The power station in its coal fired days was supplied by barge, the Chelsea Basin coal yard being on the wrong side of the Kensington canal. I knew the area well as my first studio was close (too close) to the power station. A fascinating part of town...

A Bristol Division B-set, prior to the introduction of the bogie pairs, consisted of four 4-wheel coaches : Van/3rd, compo, 3rd, van/3rd a particular variation being to have three close coupled and with a loose Van/3rd to round things off. Occasionally two of these triplet sets would be run together as a six coach set though I don't think it had a name. It was equivalent to a K set but they were 6-wheeled. A 1918 carriage working book shows these B-sets were the basis of most local services around Bristol.

The Boulton & Paul works in Norwich closed in 1986 though the Lowestoft facility continued for several more years. It stood derelict until the late '90s or thereabouts before being demolished to make way for the new Riverside development.

The library fire utterly destroyed the Local Studies library, which had some wonderful photo collections as well as newspaper archives and old maps, but the County Records Office was in the basement and protected by fire doors so only suffered water damage. A lot of expensive conservation work had to be done but I don't think much was totally lost. Architecturally it's replacement, the Forum, is a vast improvement.

You could try the Norfolk Records Office in Norwich. They have lots of maps, some fairly recent...

There are two towns called Gillingham, one pronounced with a hard 'G', the other a soft. I think the Kentish one is the soft 'G'...

Now that is seriously good news! Richard

I think Fate has a special dispensation to suspend the Law of Averages on golf courses.

Just to give this thread a bump in the hope of more photos.... Modelling English common carrier narrow gauge lines is difficult as there were so few of them and each so distinctive. The MVR is utterly believable because Dave has used designs of loco and stock that are real but just never built or used in this country, giving his line its own distinctive identity. Things are much easier if you model French narrow gauge. Like the others on this thread I never tire of viewing the MVR. More please. Richard