wagonman

This one is narrow (ie standard) gauge I think – sorry about the shadow of the crane which was the subject of the original photo, I presume.

The basic sheet was always black – the clue is in the name tar-paulin – though they could be painted with red stripes as well as the white lettering. There was a colour coding of sorts for the ropes – different coloured strands – though how long before they all ended up a uniform dark grey I don't know. Paper is not the idea material but seems to be all that is readily available these days. Richard

I haven't got any information on the company but the drawing has both the 1926 and 1933 RCH markings so that dates it. It appears to be a drawing of an RCH 1923 standard wagon though I've no idea if it is appropriate. Dapol produced a limited edition wagon in HS livery... Richard

English China Clays was formed in 1919 as a merger of Martin Bros, W of E China Clay & Stone and N Cornwall C Clay Co, and in turn linked up with Lovering and Pochin in 1931 to form ECLP – so that gives you some idea of operating dates allowing for up to 3 year lag in repainting wagons. Likewise the Slaters kit for the John Lovering wagon should cover the period from 1897 up to 1931. I've no idea if they (there were 5 of them) stayed in use that long. Loverings didn't buy any other wagons from Gloucester. Richard

I believe the GWR only had two brake vans with the side doors which were used on branch lines (I think one was at Cirencester). The road vans were operated on numbered routes – Mike the Stationmaster says above that the number was painted on the van though I've not noticed this. They used ordinary goods vans for these services. There were several hundred designated routes. Richard

Nice work Mikkel. The photo of the 3-plank wagons taken at Foss Cross seems to be the only one known as it was in MB's book too. As the MSWJR was buying most of its stock from outside builders I suspect it was given whatever was that builder's standard product in terms of axleboxes and buffers. Drawings of the early Metro-built stock are available from Birmingham City Library – or they were 30 years ago. I think the building has been demolished and replaced by the Library of Birmingham. I don't know what happened to the Oldbury drawings – maybe they went to the Birmingham Library too given that the company "merged" with Metro in 1902. I made my own transfers to 4mm scale using technology courtesy of 3M that is long since obsolete. I don't know of any available nowadays or if one of the small bespoke transfer producers has done them; probably easy enough while the Alps printer and its materials is still available.

I'm currently in Germany so a long way from my books and models. I think it was only the Glos built wagons that had the fat self contained buffers (the SMAR stock was somewhere in between) which I think we're made by turning down some GWR s/c buffers. I missed out on Eric Gates' kits alas...

I thought the MacDermot kit was also SDJR. It definitely was for an X-braced van – I think the SDJ ones were longer than the SMA/MSWJR version, but as I don't have a copy of his kit (just a vague memory) I had better shut up too! The Barnsley books are my bible on all things MSW. I did start researching it about 40 years ago but soon realised that Mike was way ahead of me and turned my attention elsewhere :-)

Well I found the EM wagons, or at least some of them. I elbowed a bit of space on what I laughingly call my workbench and did a couple of quick snaps... The van 157 is one of the Glos 'utility' vans from 1896 still in its original condition. It became GWR 100812 and lasted until 1947 though the brake gear would have been modified at some point and it probably received oil axleboxes. Scratch built. Milk Van 2 is one of a batch of four built in 1909 by Cirencester Works on the frames of MSW carriage trucks nos.1-4. They carried the same numbers when rebuilt. In appearance this is not unlike the rebuilt vans like 158 though it is vac fitted and painted in passenger livery. I made this from my own (rather unsuccessful) resin kit! Timber truck 209 was built in 1896 which make the dumb buffers seem rather odd. It was shunted off to Cardiff Docks in 1926 for internal use. Scratchbuilt. Open 65 was one of the original SMAR wagons from 1883 which somehow managed to survive to GWR days (as 34369) before being scrapped in 1928. Its ends may have been cut square by then. Scratchbuilt. A few MSW area POs. The Wilmer wagon is scratchbuilt, the others are Slaters with various modifications. They were built a long time ago – before Slaters brought out their pre-lettered kits... The Vitti wagon needs a load as it looks rather bare inside. Hey ho

Reluctant as I am to bandy words with Miss Prism, none of the known MSWJR vans bore even a remote resemblance to the MR designs. Were you perhaps thinking of the SDJR? PS: it is thought that the Oldbury batch 233-242 built in 1899 had similar dimensions to MR D363, but no-one has found a drawing or photo to prove this either way. Worth a punt?

The story of MSWJR wagons is rather convoluted! Start with the 3 plankers, it is assumed (by Mike Barnsley at least) that the Oldbury batch were based on the MR D305 design, though interestingly they were rated at 10 tons rather than 8T of the MR version. Presumably slightly larger bearings inside those plain grease axleboxes (GWR grease would be a good substitute). The wagons were numbered 213-232 on the MSW and given GWR numbers 80771 to 80790 (at least two 80774/5 never carried their new numbers as they were scrapped in 12/1923) and were scrapped between 1927 and 1932. So, not a lot of service in GWR hands. The Glos 3-plankers were rather different – longer, with simpler brakes and metal underframe – even the livery was different as 232 had the MSWJR in 6 inch (?) lettering on the LH side of the middle plank and the number on the RH side. Photos also exist of similar wagons with larger (16" ?) lettering. Interestingly the Glos 3plank wagons lasted into the 1950s/60s – presumably because of the metal underframe. The Bill Bedford kit is for van no.303 which was built in 1918 at Cirencester works as a replacement for one of the original SMAR vans of 1881 vintage which had been rebuilt as a milk truck (they knocked out alternate planks) but had reverted to goods use sometime between 1909 and 1915; presumably they just filled in the holes again? Ken Werrett did a drawing of the 'new' 303 – which is probably the basis of the kit – but only 307, and possibly 308/9, were to the same design. 303 became GW 100829 and was disposed of in 1932. [all these details from Barnsley's vol 3] Hope that's some use!

The round ended wagon photographed at Fowey was part of a batch hired from the Birmingham RC&WCo in November 1903 and given GWR numbers 01142 - 01191. They were marked "for use at Fowey". There were others for use at Par. I doubt they were all to the same design but having just seen the one example I can't be sure! They did have random B'ham fleet numbers. Details in 'Coal Trade Wagons' by Len Tavender (self published). I don't know of a drawing of the exCMR wagons though two of them were rebuilt as stone wagons and given diagram U1. Some details in the GWSG 'Pannier' no.33. The CMR wagons were built by the Swansea Wagon Co in the mid 1870s – details ought to be available somewhere in the GWR registers. D

The van 303 was built at Cirencester works in 1918 so of limited use to MSWJR period modellers, van 158 was one of the very plain vans supplied by Glos RC&WCo in 1896 – metal underframe, no external framing and a corrugated iron roof! This particular one was rebuilt as a milk van in 1902 though it later reverted to goods use which is when the horizontal bottom plank was fitted (as a milk van that was open for ventilation). None of the 5 plank wagons bear any resemblance to MR designs but there were some 3 plank dropsides thought to have been built (by Oldbury in 1899) to the MR D.305 design though with a plain grease box rather than the Ellis type on the Slaters/Coopercraft kit. As for PO wagons, most of those that were available from Slaters were from the northern end of the line and probably emptied to midlands collieries, Rawlings was post 1925 ( the business was set up in the 1900s but doesn't seem to have had any wagons until 1925). I did lash up a few MSWJR wagons back in my EM days (1970s) – might even have them somewhere...

As the 16xx panniers were built after nationalisation I'd guess it was probably the newest loco on shed that day!

Hi Rob Just found a copy of the John Owen book on eBay, so that's me several quid the poorer but soon to be incomparably richer! Thanks for the tip. Richard

Wow. That's brilliant. It's a shame the book has gone to the printers... Richard

Hi Rob I'd love to find a photo too! I suppose if one were to collect every known photo of Weston station, a few might show the goods siding and maybe, just maybe, one of those might have one of Mr Jobbins wagons... In my book I do make an attempt, however feeble, to give the wagon owners some sort of identity, but there's nothing like a direct family connection. Thanks for sharing your memory. In the unlikely event that there is ever a 2nd Edition I'd love to include a photo of Charles Jobbins himself – even if we don't find his wagons. Richard PS: I've only got Florence as being involved in the business. Which other daughters (and there were several it seems) joined her?

Yes it does, but only a couple of paragraphs. I've only found records of two wagons operated by Jobbins. Was it common for MR stationmasters to moonlight as coal merchants?

Marcrofts is now part of DB Schenker.

The book is scheduled to be published on 1 May...

Here's my three Timsbury wagons. The middle one is the kit, suitably tweaked, the other two are scratchbuilds, all from 30 years ago or more...

Yes they did the Timsbury wagon – apart from the use of a Gloucester underframe – it was an accurate enough model of the wagons in their 1908-1916 livery. They do crop up on eBay very occasionally. Richard

The British Wagon Co was founded in 1869 in Rotherham but with head office in London. Primarily a finance house, they still exist sort of. The company expanded taking over various other wagon and finance companies including the bankrupt Wheeler & Gregory Ltd in Radstock. The wagon repairing side of the business was hived off to the newly formed Wagon Repairs Ltd in 1918.

Shameless Plug Alert! http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/view_book.php?ref=L9877&section=CatNew will soon be available... Richard

Casserley photographed loco coal wagons in SDJR livery when he visited Radstock in the late '20s so yes we can probably say the retained stock stayed in SDJR livery until its next repaint after 1930. Richard