Tumut

Hello All, while I will not dispute the role that Messrs Liddill-Hart & Fuller played in advocating mobile armoured formations, it should be pointed out that they were not the only advocates of this approach. The Red Army Generals, Tukhachevsky and Timoshenko were also advocates of, and practiced in manoeuvres of mobile armoured formations in the 1920s. The between the wars Reichswehr also did covert training and manoeuvres with the Red Army at this time. Whilst I would also agree that such tactics were then in early infancy, it is also significant that Zhukov was also well aware of, and participated in similar manoeuvres as a young Red Army officer. Stalin's notorious, and murderous purges of the late 1930s eliminated most of the Red Army's expertise in this regard. ( Stalin did not forgive Tukhachevsky, whose defeat in Poland was partially due to Stalin refusing to send requested backup, a fact that Lenin heavily criticised Stalin for. Tukhavchesky was executed in June, 1937.) The ongoing problem of co ordinating a Blitzkrieg type offensive, even late in WW2, was the actual inadequacy of communications between various formations. The theory and actuality of continuous radio contact being an ongoing problem, Regards from Australia.

Hello All, 1 / as Apollo alluded to re British Gas, we are definitely now in an era of "managers" who lack qualification, experience, or engineering ability ( where applicable ), Boeing being a classic example ( whose idiotic Board has now appointed another non engineer as CEO of an engineering company ) as opposed to people who once had background, experience , and qualification, to run the organization. ( Think Post Office ) 2 / Whilst I think that it is important for Boards to have outside members to give a different perspective, in my view you really do need insiders to be day to day executives ( and I agree that there have been exceptions to this in the past, but like all exceptions, that was not the norm ). 3 / There are many specialist firms ( Boeing ) that really require specialist qualifications to run, or long industry experience to run ( Post Office ,Railways ) , the Board needs to give general direction and oversight, but the specialists are needed to reduce the likelihood of major, and potentially very expensive, muck ups. We currently seem have well and truly missed that point. 4 / the other related issue is "shareholder value, as defined by stock market performance", where we have allowed share buybacks, which in reality push up the share price, and which ensures senior executives get large bonuses, and shares ( some of which they have authorised the buy back ), so their focus becomes increasing share value, and their bonus, over everything else, and the smart ones move off quickly after a few years so that the next team has to sort out the mess created. 5 / as an aside, many years ago I read a commentary by a Wall St icon relating to Boeing wasting money now on the new generation aircraft that were not expected to enter service for another 15 years, these projected planes became the 757,767 generation. This is a prime example of a Stock Market guru being clueless on how engineering and technology companies need to plan for the future. This probably also explains American GE's disappearance as a multi faceted electrical engineering giant. Regards to all, Tumut.

Hello All, 1 / re the comment on Managers and Leaders, in many middle management roles, you ideally need someone with both skills, and that someone has to also be able to encourage and symphathize with their staff . In reality, most jobs require some level of teamwork and camaraderie , and that needs to be achieved without getting people upset, not always possible, but a good manager and leader can generally achieve this. 2 / Unlike one of my managers who told me that English managers were needed because Australians do not know how to run railways ( we have done so since 1854 !), he went on to say that they have achieved 95%-98% ontime running (to 4'59"), and excluding cancellations) My response was that when I started thirty years earlier we Australians generally exceeded 90% on time (to 3'00') with little or no cancellations. For context, we preferred to run late and get every passenger home, as opposed to our English manager who preferred to cancel trains to achieve on time running. Or alternatively, run as an ad hoc express, which meant at least some customers ended up quite some distance beyond where they intended to get off. This could also mean that either trains did not run, and/or customers were unloaded and expected to get on the following train. 3 / having said that, there were times when particular trains were regularly cancelled, and the previous express became a stopping all stations, which extended the running time by 5 minutes.(Cancelled run was a dock,SAS to Central, SAS return to shunt out, thereby causing minimal disruption.) Regards to all, Tumut.

Well Boris, and others, that sounds like good free entertainment, and you do not get hassled by self important jobs worthies to boot !

Dear StuartMac, and others, Re the reference to Abermule, 1921 collision referenced on page1, 1 / I did my VR Safe Working class in 1974, and our class Instructor, Block&Signal Inspector, Alan Dockery, made specific reference to Abermule as a warning to us all, to always check the Electric Staff to ascertain to which Section it applies, to always place a received Staff into the Instrument, to always issue a different Staff from that Instrument, and to always ensure the details are entered into the Train Register Book. Alan also reminded everyone that when traffic gets busy, and a number of people are involved in the process, the risk of error increased, therefore slow down, and check what you are doing. 2 / on the few occasions when I travelled with the Train Driver, and a Train Staff was issued, the Driver always checked that the correct Staff was issued, and in discussions with other Drivers, the necessity to check the Section to which the issued Train Staff applied was always emphasised. I also worked with a number of Station Masters/SMs who had previously worked at Country stations, and all emphasised the need to ensure the correct Train Staff was issued. 3 / the surprising thing about Abermule, a junction station on the main line between Welshpool and Machyllinth, so a relatively senior staff location, is that the actual unsatisfactory working arrangements had apparently persisted for some years without coming to the attention of senior management , after all the Cambrian Railway was not a big railway by any definition, and relieving staff would doubtless become aware of the practices at Abermule, and at some point adverse commentary would have been made. It is also interesting that both a Traffic Controller, and the Chief Traffic Inspector were on hand that day. 4 / So, from my perspective, it is interesting how Abermule, 1921 in Wales, became a warning to railway staff in Victoria, Australia. Regards to all, Tumut.

Hello All, like most cargo ships, even of this size, it is a single screw for propulsion, and side thrusters for manourvering. Both modern Container ships, and Cruise Liners (which are built on Container style ship hulls), they are wide beam with a flat bottom, hence stable, and able to transit some shallow harbours. Regards from Australia.

Dear 45655 Keith, Michael Hodgson, and others, 1 / thank you for your comments and queries. My comments below are generalisations, doubtless there are exceptions. Railways like to have exceptions ! 2 / the Main Lines between Melbourne (Victoria), Sydney (New South Wales/NSW), Brisbane (Queensland, standard gauge operated by the NSWGR), and Melbourne to Adelaide (South Australia) were, and are, single lines with crossing loops that once used Token Working; Tyer's Tablet,Webb-Thompson Large Electric Staff, Miniature Electric Staff and Automatic Electric Staff. In the case of Victoria and South Australia, Electric Train Staff/ETS, NSW used Tablet Working until the mid 1950s, though ETS had been used, and gradually replaced Tablet working from the 1900s. ( NSW had a lot of Tablet Instruments, hence the long change over.) ( Australia never used the GWR / Tyer's No.9 Key Token, as there were generally enough spare Tyer's Tablet (NSW), and/or Large Electric Staff Instruments available, having being released when either Power signalling was extended, or older systems replaced with Miniature ETS. ) This has all now been replaced with Centralized Traffic Control/CTC. 3 / As an aside, CTC was originally implemented using Strowger Electro Mechanical Stepping SwitchTelephone switch gear, hence maintenance was undertaken by Telephone Technicians, not Signal Techs.Modern CTC is very much current Signal equipment operated.Also both Australia and New Zealand implemented American style Automatic Block Signalling/ABS, more commonly known here as Automatic Track Control/ATC, Lever Lock&Track Control/LLTC, all of which describe colour light controlled Single Line Sections with Crossing Loops. As traffic increased , Token systems were replaced with ATC, generally operated locally, CTC, despite claims to the contrary, is actually quite expensive to implement, hence why BR never converted the Central Wales line to CTC. 4 / in the case of the VR, the Western Main Line to Adelaide used a combination of Large and Miniature ETS, the Miniature ETS being the newer, and usually used for Switch In/Switch Out locations before being extended for Automatic Staff Exchange/ASE working, which speeded up long distance trains considerably, and the arrival of diesels in the 1950s enabled a further significant reduction in long distance travel times. On the Main Line to Sydney, the VR again used a combination of Large and Miniature ETS, whilst NSW used primarily Tablet, which later on did have provision for ASE, though by the 1950s the NSW Main Line from Albury-Sydney-Brisbane was pretty much all Miniature ETS. 5 / The Western Main Line also used American style mechanical Trailable Point Machines with Banner Point/Switch Indicators, which also speed up transit times. 6 / Automatic Electric Train Staff/ATS was driver operated at remote crossing loops, and was used by both the VR and NSWGR, though the Instruments, and Method of Operation varied. Release for the ATS was by either the Signal Box/Block Post in the Advance, or by Instruction from Train Control, who in at least some cases, had an electric control, via the telephone line, to release the appropriate Train Staff. 7 /ASE was also widespread on the Main Lines within each State Railway system, with Train Staff and Ticket /TST being used elsewhere. All systems used Staff locks to release points, or ground frames, including Annett's Key, and at Non Interlocked locations, train crews had the padlock key to release any padlocked point. (The padlock key was specific to point locks.) 8 / TST was used by both the NSWGR and VR for some outer Suburban services with up to a 20 minute frequency. As Suburban trains on these lines were generally Stopping All Stations, there was less of a need for ETS. On the VR, TST Staffs were/are duralium, with a feather at one end, which both unlocked the Ticket Box, and points if need be. NSW seemed to prefer an attached Annett Key for their Train Staffs to unlock points. Actually , NSWGR was quite a fan of interlocked, Annett Key released Ground Frames, many larger country stations have a Yard with Ground Frames at their extremities. The VR, in such cases generally arranged for a long siding to access the various remote sidings , were then used hand points. 9 / In the late 1980s, the VR went over to Train Orders by Train Radio, the intention being to operate all country lines by Train Orders. The reason being that the new G class ( JT26C-2 SS, 3,300hp/2,460kw, predecessor to the BR Cl 59, 66 series) could clear wheat line with one train load, instead of the three or four previously required. In practice, it was found to be uneconomic to provide Train radio transmission towers all over Victoria , so many wheat branch lines are operated by a numbered Master Key, which has a feather at one end to operate the staff locks. Some locations have a Miniature Annett Key/MEK, which is a Fortress Lock Key, to unlock the points. ( None of this American unlocked points nonsense ! ) 10 / I hope the above is of some interest. Some Australian railways, despite being British RCH Rules based, have historically used a mixture of both British and American practice, for both reasons of economy, and the reality of lower traffic density than Britain, and operating over far longer distances. ( The 5 mile branchline was always rare in Australia. ) Best wishes and regards from Australia.

Dear beast66606, and others, 1 / yes, I agree that the Block Section is between Stop Signals ( Home, Starter, or Advance Starter ), ( this, by the way, is also the definition of Station Limits ) , but in Two Position signalling, if the Block Section in the rear displays a Distant Signal at Proceed / Green light, then the Driver knows that he has a clear run from the Distant Signal at Proceed that he is approaching, and the next Distant signal in advance, which is applicable to the next Block Section in advance . 2 / In this context, in regards to Token Working, a Distant Signal at proceed also tells the driver that the Token will be exchanged by Automatic Token Exchange Apparatus, in the UK's case, either Whitaker's or Mason's, in Australia , the Automatic Staff Exchanger ( not used for Tablet Working, which was more long lasting in NSW than VR ) and colloquially known as the Rams Horn ( not the official appellation! ). Conversely, in this context, if the Distant signal is at Caution / Yellow light, then the Token exchange will be by hand. This is the generally understood working practice in Australia, however, neither the Rule Book, nor the General Appendix, states this. Instead, the use of the Automatic Staff Exchanger / ASE is indicated by either a White Disc by day, or a White Light at night, both of which are mounted on the ASE post, which is only vertical when set up for use, otherwise it is folded down into the ground box containing the apparatus. To understand why this is the case, Automatic Staff exchanging , while supposedly limited to 50 mph, higher speed up to the maximum speed of 70 mph was not unknown, and for personal safety reasons, you stood well clear of the ASE equipment when in use. In Victoria, at Bungaree, on the up side of Ballarat, there is an eucalyptus tree that bears the deep scars of missed pick ups. 3 / in relation to the context of the IRSE articles, these were in reference to 4aspect colour light signals ( y/g/y/r configuration) in the rear of a 4 aspect colour light junction signal ( also y/g/y/r configuration ), and one article discussing Flashing Yellow Aspects also called the 4 aspect signal in the rear a Distant Signal. In Australia Distant Signals are only Two Position signals, as 3 or 4 position light signals are either Home, or Controlled, or Automatic or Permissive. Best wishes and regards from Australia.

Hello All, 1 / thank you Stuart and Jeremy for your answers. 2 / re terminology, specifically signal definition. As background, Australia and New Zealand Government railways used the 1905 Australasian Model Rule Book, based on the 1895 British RCH Model Rule Book, and in broad terms this, with updates, lasted until around 1990, Subsequently a new Plain English version became the quasi national basis in Australia. (I am personally not a fan of Plain English in this instance as the authors were non railway people who did not understand, nor distinguish between, some of the terminology, and deleted other bits as irrelevant, when they were not, this is a personal opinion). 3 / Yes, I am aware of the Starter signal definition as some UK railways used. In Victoria, the VR 1919 & 1966 Rule Book defined a Home Signal as protecting stations, sidings, signal boxes, level crossings, and junctions. And points/switches were protected by, and interlocked with, Home Signals. Whereas a Starter Signal only controlled the entrance of a train into the Section Ahead. As Tokens ( the VR used either Large Electric Staff, or Miniature Electric Staff, the Tablet Machines were nearly all replaced pre WW2 ) authorised a train to occupy a Single Line Section, at Interlocked stations a Home Departure, or Home Arrival Signal, which protected both the Station and were interlocked with the Crossing Loop points, hence the use of the term Home Signal. 4 / whilst discussing signal definitions, I have noticed in some Institute of Railway Signal Engineers / IRSE Newsletters, a 4 aspect colour light signal in the rear of a Home Signal protecting a Junction in Advance, is defined as a Distant Signal, yet from a Rule Book perspective, a Distant Signal only has two aspects, Yellow for Caution, next fixed signal is at Stop; or Green, next Block Section is clear to the next Distant Signal in advance, and all applicable signals are at Proceed. Whilst I can see why a Signal Engineer might perceive a 4 aspect signal at the rear of a Home Signal protecting a Junction, as a Distant Signal ; from a Signalman's / Signaller's perspective, such a definition, is both misleading, and may be a source of misunderstanding. 5 / the VR (and other State Railways) also had non interlocked crossing loops. These locations were protected by arrival Home Signals only, normally held at Proceed, and only placed to Stop if a cross, or a Shunt was required. At these locations the points were locked either by a staff lock, or by padlocked Plunger Locks. Some locations also had signal cable operated point sliding detectors. As a generalisation, non interlocked locations did not have a Distant Signal, though the New South Wales Railways / NSWGR did use Landmark Signals, a yellow equilateral triangle ( Highway sign style ) with cat's-eye reflectors, which at night time were illuminated by the locomotive headlight, though some did also have a Yellow light emanating from the centre of the triangle. 6 / unlike the UK, the typical track layout at a Crossing Loop consisted of No.1 Road which was the station platform road, No.2 Road, which was the crossing loop road, and No.3 Road for the sidings, Goods Shed. Normally No.2 Road could only be occupied by a locomotive with vehicles for a shunt, or a locomotive hauled train. Unaccompanied vehicles could not be stabled on No. 2 Road. 7 / for crossing purposes, where two trains are intended to cross, the first scheduled train is arrived on No 1 Road, whilst the second scheduled train is held out on the Single Line Section. After the first train has completed its station work, it is set back onto the Single Line Section from whence it came, and then rerouted into No. 2 Road. ( The signalman receives the first train's Token on arrival, and holds onto it until the train has arrived into No. 2 Road, after which the first train's Token is placed in the Token Instrument/Machine, Train Arrival is sent to the Station / Block Post in the rear. ) The second train to arrive is now signalled into No.1 Road, the second train's Token is collected, placed in the Token Instrument, Train Arrival sent , once acknowledged, Is Line Clear is then sent for the first train, now sitting in No. 2 Road, if granted the Token is withdrawn ( being a different Token from that which the second train to arrive used ), this new Token is then issued to the Driver in No. 2 Road, and the appropriate signal is then placed to Proceed. The Signalman then asks Line Clear for the second train to arrive, which is on No. 1 Road, if granted, a new Token, not the one previously used by the first arriving train, is withdrawn, issued to the Driver of the second train, and the appropriate Signal is then placed to Proceed. 8 / as can be seen from the above, the described process utilized four different Tokens, and the Signalman's Train Register will indicate those Token numbers. Whilst in my experience, most train drivers made a note of the Tokens they received, this is not a Rule Book, or Special Instruction, requirement, but drivers who did this told me that in the event of an Incident, or a Lost Token, subsequent investigation would confirm the sequence of events. 9 / I hope that this is of some interest, Best wishes and regards from Australia.

Hello All, 1 / it is my understanding that each BR Region had a different standard ! 2 / Just wondering if Magpie levers (top half White, bottom half Black )is a thing in the UK. In Victoria, Australia, the Victorian (State) Railways / VR, which used Mckenzie&Holland style mechanical interlocking frames, a Magpie lever was effectively a route proving lever when a colour light dwarf signal replaced an array of mechanical disc signals, this meant that the interlocking was not altered, but the overlapping electrical relays allowed one former disc lever to operate the replacement colour light dwarf signal in association with the required magpie lever. 3 / re the use of Tokenless Block, is the Home Departure and Home Arrival Signals interlocked with the TB Instrument, so that the Signal can only be placed to proceed after line Clear is granted ? 4 / in regards to the Key Token Instrument, is this also interlocked with the respective Home Signals ? If not, is the applicable Home Signal only placed to Proceed after Line Clear has been granted ? ( The issue here is that some lines apparently allow the Arrival Signal/s to be placed to Proceed for the next expected train to arrive without Line Clear either having been requested or granted, presumably on the basis that the required Token is assumed to be the sole required authority to travel. In Australia, the practice is that a Signal cannot be placed to proceed unless the requisite Token has been released, so the Signaller must check that the appropriate Token has been released, and the Driver must be in procession of the applicable Token, and the Driver must also check that the signal is at Proceed, prior to departure. ) Regards, Tumut ( retired Train Controller )

HelloAll, this is why I use a PO Box ! I have a friend who had a US locomotive thrown over the fence by the Courier, and landed in the garden, fortunately no damage to locomotive, and I have also been told of parcels left on the front gate pillar, which usually then get "lifted", so I refuse to use a courier, if they will not deliver to my PO Box (some will not) then I go elsewhere, or go without.I think it is highly unprofessional for couriers NOT to deliver and get a signature, after all, that was supposed to be the reason for using a courier. Regards, Tumut

Hello All, I have used chipboard in the past, and it has not warped, but it was framed with 2"x1" timber + 3 crossbeams between the ends for 6' length, result is very heavy and difficult to move. Nowadays plywood is readily available, relatively cheap, lightweight, even if framed with the current 2x1.I have seen some baseboards that are plywood as described, with cork floor tiles overlaid, and then whatever else is required is placed on top of that. The floor tiles allow for easy track pinning, which can be altered until the desired track flow is achieved. And yes, I am well aware of the Iain Rice promoted all ply sandwich construction, which is very flexible, but if you basically want a flat baseboard then ply and 2x1 works fine, Regards, Tumut

Hello All, hmmm, flammable oil tanker next to a passenger coach without a barrier wagon ! And empty Petrol wagons are far more dangerous than full ones due to flammable gas remnant in the tank, or is this part of a shunting move ? regards, Tumut.

Hello All, a Brake tender is filled with scrap metal, and its dead weight is intended to assist with the lightweight (compared to a steam loco) diesel to assist with braking, whereas a slug retains its former locomotive traction motors, which are powered by the attached hauling locomotive to assist with low speed haulage, regards Tumut

Hello All, what I think is bizarre is that railway wagons are transported on low loader semi trailers, when they should be running on the rails, Regards Tumut

Hello All, Re Donkey Voting , ie numbering the ballot paper from 1 at the top , and then in order to the bottom. Donkey voting IS NOT endemic in Australian votes, the AEC / Australian Electoral Commission statistically dismissed that furphy decades ago. In the 1970s one electorate , I think it was in NSW, coincidentally had the three candidates listed top to bottom in the order that the electorate traditionally voted for the Parties they represented. It was widely commented at the time that a donkey vote would be achieved, which it was ! The AEC, for House of Representatives / lower house, draws lots to allocate a candidates order on the Ballot paper. Also, despite allegations to the contrary, the number of invalid ballots, as in being incomplete. duplicate numbers, non numbers, defacement etc, is usually below 5% of ballots cast, which indicates that when voters actually get the ballot and go into the voting booth, they actually do cast a considered ballot. Senate ballots order of candidates is decided by the Party, and usually the top Party Candidate gets the most votes, though this is not always the case. Parties need to be aware that a popular candidate placed in the unpopular third or lower place can affect the final count. The ALP / Labour found this out when it placed John Halfpenny ( a prominent Metal Workers Union official ) 3rd, and the final count showed him equal, and in some electorates, exceeding the 1st candidate, which did detrimentally effect the final outcome for Labour.

Hello All, the 10 ft height reminds of a previous gf who parked her car, between others, on an unlit side street at night, who came back to find a PC writing out a ticket for parking in a no parking area. When she queried the PC, he switched on a torch to illuminate a single double arrowed No Parking sign ( which applied to the whole street) 10 ft up a power pole, a point where it possibly wouldn't be seen in daylight, let alone on an unlit street at night.

Hello All, the perils of overpopulation, have, in many countries now become the perils of a steeply declining birthrate, China, Japan, South Korea, Russia, all come to mind, regards from Australia

Hello All, likely to be American chassis with "local" body, in this case, NSW. British ambulances and British chassis were not rugged enough for Australian roads, which, in country/rural area were ( and are ) usually gravel. Pre WW2, Dodge and Chevrolet were popular emergency service chassis, regards from Australia.

HelloAll, as KEVINLMS above posts indicate, there are a number of railway level crossings around Geelong where the railway crosses the road at an obtuse angle, and allowing for the width of the rail corridor, the space between the boom barrier and the railway line can be sufficient for a road vehicle to be clear of both the railway line and the boom barrier. When you then have private ( and unregulated ) adjacent roads, the design of the level crossing can be compromised, and it would be difficult to regulate that. Potential sighting difficulties around obtuse crossings need to be considered when the crossings are upgraded, and local councils, who are responsible for local road access, are frequently unaware of private access roads being implemented, as land owners rarely think to advise the Council, and unless someone makes a formal complaint, Council may have no other way of being so advised. It also does not help that some councils ( Mornington Shire in Victoria comes to mind ), and some property owners, instal private crossings across railway lines without the approval of VicTrack ( successors to the Victorian Railways Department for track access )..

Help All, As an aside, this design originated with the New South Wales Department of Main Roads,and received a design award form the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art ! NSW also uses a modified version which has an additional foot operated button for wheelchair users. As Kevin says, it also has an audible tone and braille markings.

Question What happens if you have an old car (eg Morris 1100) that has not been registered for some years, and you wish to re register it for use ?

Hello All, 1 / as we are talking Battleships /BB, the Reichsmarine, later Kreigsmarine's Pocket Battleships ( apparently a RN term ), later classified as Heavy Cruisers / C, the Deutschland class Panzerschiff / armoured ship ( Deutschland / Admiral Sheer / Admiral Graf Spee ) have oft been criticised as a failure, yet with six 28cm /11 inch guns they achieved their design goal of being heavier armed than a fast cruiser ( usually 6 inch or 8 inch guns ) and faster than a BB that could outgun them. Being diesel powered gave them a long cruising range, yet all welded construction meant that they only displaced 10,000 tons ( though some estimates say up to 12,000 tons ) which is a typical cruiser displacement. 2 / Whilst it is true that HMS Exeter, HMS Ajax and HMS Achilles (New Zealand Division, later HMNZS ) eventually ran Admiral Graf Spee into Montevideo , that still amounts to 24 guns spread over three ships to force one ship into harbour, so that seems to me to indicate the Deutschland class was a successful design. 3 / I have often thought that additional Deutschland class would have been a better alternative to the Bismarck & Tirpitz , bearing in mind that commerce raiding was a primary war aim, that operating out of the Baltic, and Norway's fiords, are both restricted waterways, and the fact that very few fast BBs / Battlecruisers existed which could outgun a Deutschland class. 4 / Additionally, the Deutschland class required less crew, and had lower operating costs, so potentially an additional three Deutschland class in lieu of two Bismarck class, would also have given the Kreigsmarine greater deployment options, and caused the RN a lot more headaches than the Bismarck class actually did. ( 5 / As I have no naval service background , I am happy to be corrected. ) regards from Australia.

Dear 62613 and others, 1 / they may have made an interesting Aircraft Carrier (CV) conversions. The USS Lexington and USS Saratoga conversions enabled the USN to have, like the IJN, large CVs, which in turn allowed for more aircraft on board, and could accomodate the next generation of larger and heavier monoplane designs. Both the USN and the IJN had the advantage over the RN in CVs for this reason, though it is equally true that aircraft design and engineering between the wars was so rapid that some new designs were obsolete by service entry. 2/ as an aside, apparently Admiral Yamamoto witnessed the RN FAA Swordfish attack on Taranto, and this raid is credited with inspiring the East Wind Rain attack on Pearl Harbour. However, in 1931-32, the US Army and the USN, conducted joint manoeuvres in which two USN carriers' aircraft made a sneak attack on Pearl Harbour , and the umpires ruled that all facilities were put out of commission. These manoeuvres were witnessed by a Japanese Naval Attache, who later became a Staff Officer to the Commander of the IJN Carrier force that attacked Pearl, and he stated in a post war article that the idea and pattern of the attack was based on his observations of these manoeuvres ( "East Wind Rain" Stan Cohen / Pictorial Histories Publishing Co / Montana, USA 1981/1992 isbn 0-933126-15-8 ) page 10. 3 / Many years ago I read an article that claimed that the British Army in the early 1930s did manoeuvres in Malaya that included a possible land attack to seize Singapore from the rear, if this is correct, then it appears that Japan had both of their attacks pre demonstrated by their adversaries ! 4 / there has been criticisms of both General Short, and Admiral Kimmel, in relation to their failures to adequately defend Hawaii, yet the long winded, and garbled instructions from Washington indicated that sabotage was the greatest threat they need to prepare for, and they did. There is also criticism levelled at Admiral Kimmel for not having sufficient air patrols, which may have some validity, but there were only three reconnaissance planes available on standby, and the area to be observed was ( and is ) enormous, so it is a bit like finding a needle in a haystack, and lacking a magnet. In the Pacific Theatre, despite many reconnaissance flights by all participants, spotting the enemy in a vast ocean was, realistically, hope over experience, and there are a number of recorded instances when successful spotting was the result of errant navigation ! Regards from Australia.

Hello Hroth and others, 1 / I was unaware of this, though it does make sense , even if the taste was lacking. 2 / We had an icebox, and the iceman used to carry a block in, and place it in the top compartment in the icebox for Mum, though at some point we were told that the ice run would be soon discontinued due to falling demand as people bought 'fridges. So Dad bought a Frigidaire ( made by General Motors Holden ) which lasted 10 years, and was privately sold as Mum bought a larger 'fridge, this time a Kelvinator, which lasted for at least15 years. Many years later I went to a workmates home, and lo and behold, a Frigidaire just like Mum's in the back garage, by which time it must have been 30+years old, and still humming along nicely, and it was his Mum's originally ! 3 / We used to have milk delivered, by horse and cart, none of those new fangled electric milk floats here, and once a fortnight a little elderly ( at least to an 8 year old ) dapper man with grey hair, short back and sides, RSL badge in his lapel, dark blue pin striped suit with matching waistcoat ( vest ), circular horn rimmed glasses ( NHS glasses in England ? ) , softly spoken, would write out the Invoice in a beautiful handwritten copperplate, same for the receipt.( He always reminded me of characters in B&W movies on the TV. ) Amazing what memories some discussions can conjure, Regards from Australia.