RBE

I'm afraid not. The sound recording on this is our IP and as a result will only be available through our upgrade kits and selected retailers.

To be honest it's not a bad shout in hindsight.

There are certainly a lot more lighting configurations on the class 60.

I am not sure what you are saying here? That you want the nameplates and pipework pre fixed? I am always happy to give advice regarding fitting nameplates and pipework etc. I must admit I never saw any of your posts asking for help.

We are looking at around a months time.

The upgrade kit is looking to be around £120 so still saving around £20 on buying the parts separately, plus you get the correct plugs on the speaker etc as standard.

The issue Eric is that the Zimo decoder that he wants to use isn't cheap but also fails to power the tail lights for some reason, even though the outputs match the ESU. Ironically the cheap Bachmann 36-557 decoder works just fine. As I said, just get the Lokpilot or a Bachmann if you want, you'll get the functions you want and it will run the loco just fine as its circuitry is designed by ESU. For me it's a no brainer but BBR wants to use Zimo exclusively.

I've contacted ESU, lets leave it at that.

I didn't say we buy at retail cost, I said that we would have to buy retail units which cost more from ESU than bulk items. My point being that we are adding a step where we buy decoders and send them on to retailers that can simply buy them themselves cutting out the middle man.

Again there is nothing none standard in our circuitry, it meets NMRA standards. The simple solution here is to buy the correct decoder as specified and then everyone's time won't be wasted. Yes they have, I never said it wasn't possible and we could do it as well at a cost, I have said that given that we do not sell any products direct to customers currently then you need to buy our products through our retailers anyway so there is no difference to the end user. Again you are being difficult for the sake of it. As I said you have to buy our products through the retailer anyway so no additional steps required. You just order a class 56 lokpilot and they deliver. That is your prerogative of course however I personally would consider that cutting your nose off to spite your face. Missing out on a model because of the decoder that you have to use makes no sense at all to me. Just buy a lokpilot.

It's what I had laid around, if that's the case then fine. However ESU have stated to us that there is no reason that other decoders shouldn't work. It does follow a standard (see below, bottom right is our connections), however it is also not unreasonable to use the recommended decoder suggested by the manufacturer of the product, known to work without issue. Maybe these diagrams might help you get things going (not sure what Zimo decoder you are using but should be standard right?) The dip switches should all be set to the ON position to connect the reds to AUX 5 and 6 respectively. Again it works differently, the factory have a contract with ESU and are supplied direct for installation at source. Aftermarket products for consumer sales are handled differently by ESU and have to be procured as retail packs. They are obtainable through our retailers with no extra steps. However its not a 'normal' lighting configuration (which would be your basic white fronts red rears on directional) so you cannot expect to buy the decoders as a 'normal decoder'

So you would have us, as Cavalex, buy retail boxed decoders from ESU pre-blown at that extra cost and then send them to our retailers to sell on, passing that cost onto consumers? How is that any different to the retailers buying the decoders direct (more cheaply) and blowing them with whatever file they see fit when necessary? It also prevents a stock of pre blown decoders sitting on their shelves as they could also sell them blank or with the 56 file on depending on who is buying them.

It's a 36-557 21MTC 1A decoder Again, no we don't have to, and shouldn't be expected to either. We are not electronics experts but ESU are and they have designed the circuit to the industry standard and as such have stated to us that it will work with any 21 pin decoder that uses that standard, we have no reason to doubt that statement. They have also stated that they recommend the ESU lokpilot decoder and we have passed that on to our customers. Aside from maybe having decoders in stock at home there is no reason that if buying a decoder especially for the loco that you wouldn't buy a pre-programmed ESU lokpilot as that works best with the model. I don't know why you are having issues, as I said it worked for me just 30 mins ago with a basic Bachmann decoder. I wasn't there when you called to us at MRS as I was indisposed last weekend but as extensive testing with other decoders has not been conducted our answer to any issues will always be to use the recommended hardware.

With all due respect, you are being confrontational for the sake of it. Whilst in order for the functions to have good QOL we recommend a pre-programmed ESU Lokpilot, but you can certainly access them via other decoders. However the circuit board and project was designed by ESU and we have recommended that decoder because we know 100% how it will behave. We have no obligation to test every decoder combination on the market and cannot be expected to so, if you choose to go against the recommendation then that is a personal choice along with any issues that you have in implementing that choice. The circuit board as I have said is not wired in any kind of strange way, it is to standard 21 pin protocols. In order to satisfy these query's (This statement in particular 'there is not a decoder straight out of the box that operates all functions. Even the recommended esu chip would not activate certain functions until programmed. Having to specially request decoders from a retailer is not ‘out of the box’ either.') I have just been out and tested a class 56 with a Bachmann 4 function 21pin (21MTC) EZ Command decoder, pretty standard fare. Straight out of the box it controlled all of the lighting functions no problem. Set the dip switches to none ESU configuration and I got: F0 Directional Headlight F1 #1 end marker lights F2 #2 end marker lights F5 #1 Fan F6 #2 Fan F7 #1 end tail lights F8 #2 end tail lights All working fine straight out of the box. I admit I didn't test the cab lights as I forgot about them in all fairness, my bad. Possibly F3 & F4 but didn't check. If that decoder can do it then I don't see why other more high end decoders can't. As for supplying the decoders to retailers, again I'm sorry but you do not understand the business. For us to procure decoders for factory fitted sound is completely different to supplying aftermarket decoders. The purchasing requirements for ESU differs considerably with regard to factory bulk sales verses boxed retail units. It makes far more sense for the retailers who deal with these on a daily basis to provide the decoders, you are of the assumption that we are simply wiping our hands of the issue and hoping that the retailers will pick up the slack. This is not the case. We have a small retailer network which are part of the Cavalex support structure and as such are approached and willing to take on the blowing and supply of the decoders (if they have the means) where necessary. Us procuring decoders and supplying them to retailers is just an extra step in the process that isn't required.

An ESU Lokpilot is preferred if you want to take advantage of our pre programmed lighting control. You could do a similar setup with any programmable decoder given the knowledge of how to program them, however our expertise is with ESU Lokprogrammer and ESU themselves provided the sound and none sound projects for this loco. We can do no more than recommend the lokpilot with our file installed, the 21 pin protocol has been followed to ensure general DCC compatibility and that is as far as it needs to go. The Lokpilot and Loksound decoders are both recommended in the manual for each loco. If not using a pre programmed decoder then any 21 pin decoder, provided the dip switches are set correctly, should work the lights in a basic fashion including tail lights. The decoder to circuit board connections are standard, we haven't gone against what is expected for a 21 pin decoder setup. It's completely different. We have had to manufacture the P4 and EM wheelsets specifically for the locomotive at our factory. Therefore we have to supply the retailers with these, they can't get them from anywhere else. Lokpilot decoders are standard equipment made by ESU and in stock at most retailers. We have made the lokpilot file available to all free of charge and it makes no sense for us to purchase decoders and send them out to retailers when they already have access to these without our involvement in the procurement process. That's not how they work though when set up correctly. Pressing the single function deactivates the front lights and actives the reds on both ends. It also activated the red lights as directional when in light engine mode with the white lights. It's not the same as having all lights simply on their own function buttons. We have had the head and tail lights working just fine with a basic decoder so don't see why they can't be made to work with those. However I will reiterate, why go through the hassle of trying to reprogram none recommended decoders for the sake of it when you can just use the recommended one straight out of the box either pre-programmed or blown yourself with the file for ESU?

We have. The file is readily available to download via the ESU website and loksound V5s are available to purchase via our retailers who are able to blow the decoders with the appropriate files. We do not sell our products directly and therefore anything needed is available through our retailers. As we don't sell direct we also do not stock decoders. We have provided the necessary files via the ESU website for anyone to either purchase a pre blown decoder from a retailer or service such as Road and Rails or for those with the necessary equipment purchase blank decoders and re-blow them themselves. It's not difficult to get hold of the right decoder. The only 'issue' I see is that some people are trying to get full functionality from none ESU decoders.

What surprised you? The model has been made to incorporate prototype independent control of all of the lighting functions as per the real loco. It simply cannot be done with a basic decoder set up (the lights have to be programmed In such as way as to override the standard lighting etc for instance when setting it to stabling mode with reds at each end. You can set the dip switches to 'basic mode' if you like but obviously you won't get the full functionality of the lighting.

Having examined the coupling situation we have decided (at this point) that a Kinematic coupler is necessary, however I have redesigned the couplers for both the upcoming class 60 and the second run class 56 to a design that requires much less longitudinal force to swing and recentre the mechanism. As a result the coupler has less extension but a more reliable action. Once the samples with the coupler are produced we will do heavy train testing to prove the concept.

Excellent. Sounds like you did a great job there!!! Far from an idiot.

Yes we are making it roundy roundy.

It's actually been taken on by Cavalex as a whole and we are rebuilding it as a WCML 90s layout. We are not regauging it though it will still remain EM. 👍

You didn't have to. You can always return it to us to look at if necessary.

Again you don't need to go anywhere near them. Anyway we are where we are. The shoes fit onto a peg on the brake gear so a spot of superglue (gel is probably better with a little flex to it) should sort it. Might need your glasses on though.

How on earth do you pull the brake shoe off when checking the bogie tower? You don't need to go anywhere near those. It's a small piece but should glue back on if it's just the glue that's given up, however I have never knocked one off so can't comment on how easy it is to glue back on.