clecklewyke Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Holborn Viaduct was very compact indeed. The main snag is quite complex pointwork that can not be replicated with ready-to-lay Peco. Here's a signalling diagram of Holborn Viaduct. Apart from the interesting pointwork it could be a CJ Freezer plan! IAN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 Here's a signalling diagram of Holborn Viaduct. Apart from the interesting pointwork it could be a CJ Freezer plan! IAN Oh no it's not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Clive I knew that a Met/LNWR connection was mooted, but I didn't think it was actually built. What was the alignment? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2015 Here's a signalling diagram of Holborn Viaduct. Apart from the interesting pointwork it could be a CJ Freezer plan! IAN Hi Ian The link is not working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 We seem to have hijacked this thread onto a discussion about Holborn Viaduct. Sorry! But while we are here, can anyone tell me what diesel locos were used on through freights in the 1960s? I never managed to see any (despite quite frequent visits because my father always had a keen interest in the Snow Hill route) and I have not found any pics on t'internet other than steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Link to Holborn Viaduct signalling diagram: http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams/holbornviaduct.jpg Not that I in any way like Southern 3rd rail minories-style layouts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 But while we are here, can anyone tell me what diesel locos were used on through freights in the 1960s? I never managed to see any (despite quite frequent visits because my father always had a keen interest in the Snow Hill route) and I have not found any pics on t'internet other than steam. I think Classes 08/09, 24/25, 31 and 33 would have been a safe bet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 I think Classes 08/09, 24/25, 31 and 33 would have been a safe bet. Yes, I agree. But I would be more interested if some other classes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2015 We seem to have hijacked this thread onto a discussion about Holborn Viaduct. Sorry! But while we are here, can anyone tell me what diesel locos were used on through freights in the 1960s? I never managed to see any (despite quite frequent visits because my father always had a keen interest in the Snow Hill route) and I have not found any pics on t'internet other than steam. I think Classes 08/09, 24/25, 31 and 33 would have been a safe bet. Hi Joseph and Pete To add to Pete's post. An 08 was used as the banker from Farringdon to Snow Hill, I am not sure if they would have been used through workings owing to the slow top speed . Classes 15 and 24 were used on ER freights from the GNR lines, not sure about 31s as they were considered to heavy for the route by the SR civil engineer when diesels were introduced, as were Baby Deltics. Hence class 15s and 24s being allocated to Finsbury Park. Cricklewood class 24s were also used by the LMR on the services from the Brent sidings, I am unaware of any class 25s or 27s being fitted with LT trip-cock apparatus, I know the 24s were. In "Power of the 33s" is a lovely photo of a Crompton passing Kings Cross passenger loco yard having come out of Hotel Curve Tunnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Is the OP looking for a line which continued beyond the passenger station or one which branched off from a yard or from sidings? Many of those mentioned so far have been in the latter category while others have only applied since withdrawal of the original passenger service - which makes the period being modelled relevant as well of course What I was looking for was something small and rural, set in the inter-war years, and not an extended siding from a yard.. Plan A used Wantage Town's trackplan, turned into a "through" station by simply extending the line beyond the buffers. The problem with that was its origins as a pure terminus and, in particular, the difficulties of having stone or timber trains pass through while a passenger train was in the station. That I intended to run all ordinary trains as "mixed" further complicated matters. There have been so many suggestions made (far, far more than I would ever have imagined!) that it is going to take me a while to go through them all. An early front-runner was Moorswater, but I'm starting to suspect a little too much compression and/or alterations would have to be made in order to fit the available space. Never mind! With so many suggestions made I'm bound to find the perfect candidate somewhere. Thank you all again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curlew Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Wantage is as small as it gets. Had you considered altering the single platform into a passing loop? I read this thread a while ago on the Scalefour site, which has a few ideas on that score. http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=2208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 We seem to have hijacked this thread onto a discussion about Holborn Viaduct. Sorry! Not a problem! Threads are like conversations - they develop, evolve and go off at tangents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 Holmfirth had a good trackplan for extension beyond the terminus and there were quarries further west which could have been rail served. It's probably a bit bigger than you want but could be compressed, I think. (Edit to add: Just doodled a bit and definitely possible in 8' in 4mm scale, perhaps even 7' if pushed) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Oh no it's not It is now - and it's here. Thanks for pointing put my error. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Brownhills (Watling Street) springs to mind (mainly because it's local to me). Midland Railway branch off the Water Orton- Walsall line at Aldridge, passenger services terminated at Brownhills but coal traffic went on a few miles further to interchange sidings with the colliery railways. Closed to passenger traffic in 1930 and then the line was closed and lifted in the 1960s. http://railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/brownhills_mr.php http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/brownhills/index.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Wantage is as small as it gets. Had you considered altering the single platform into a passing loop? I read this thread a while ago on the Scalefour site, which has a few ideas on that score. http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=2208 I'd seen edited snippets of Armchair Modellers layout thread before but that is the first time I've had a link that gives me access to the whole thing - thank you. Things that come to mind after a quick flit through his thread is that I also have a Nonneminstre Planet and a Manning Wardle that is proving a right bar steward to build. (Actually I've got three, but the other two aren't getting done until I've dealt with the one that's already under way). They appear to all be prerequisites for membership of the masochists club. I'd dealt with Wantage's lack of space by stretching it a bit, but I do feel the cramped nature of the place is a lot of it's appeal. I'd also curved mine through . . . Why don't I just post a track plan instead? This was Plan A, but there were assorted glitches and it just failed to turn me on. This was Plan A(1), which I preferred, but it still had a few glitches I couldn't overcome. One idea I did have that I liked was replacing the Wantage-esque loco shed and loading bank at the back of the layout with a Tywyn-like loco shed and carriage shed. Unfortunately that caused as many problems as it solved. If I'd been able to devise something that combined a loco shed, a carriage shed and a loading bank it might have worked, but every attempt either looked contrived, there wasn't quite enough room or (most frequently) a baseboard joint got in the way. Anyway, we appear to have wandered off topic again, which, IIRC, had evolved into Holborn Viaduct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 Sorry if I've missed it in 3 pages but isn't Chessington another one that fits/fitted the bill? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Here's a signalling diagram of Holborn Viaduct. Apart from the interesting pointwork it could be a CJ Freezer plan! IAN It was!! Cyril Freezer included a sketch plan of the whole complex from Hoborn Viaduct to the far end of the Blackfirars throat on the south side of the river in his book Model Railway Operation. His sketch has even more pointwork than the SB diagram as it includes the loco layover sidings at Holborn Viaduct. He did say that it wasn't one of his normal trackplans because the whole thing would be too large even in N scale but suggested Blacfriars as a suitable candidate. If you have a suitable travel card/pass and an hour or so to spend it's still quite interesting to explore the railways in that part of London . What I do find incredible is just how totally Holborn Viaduct station and the viaduct over Fleet Street has disappeared. Old railways usually leave some trace behiind but the area has been so comprehensively redeveloped that you'd never know it was ever there nor that the steep grade that takes the Thameslink line under Fleet St. used to be the other side of it after the line had crossed above Fleet Street. I'd have to admit that the railway viaduct did nothing for the view of St. Paul's Cathedral but, though I must have seen it many times when I first worked in London, simply cannot relate it to the current urban scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 What I do find incredible is just how totally Holborn Viaduct station and the viaduct over Fleet Street has disappeared. Old railways usually leave some trace behiind but the area has been so comprehensively redeveloped that you'd never know it was ever there nor that the steep grade that takes the Thameslink line under Fleet St. used to be the other side of it after the line had crossed above Fleet Street. I'd have to admit that the railway viaduct did nothing for the view of St. Paul's Cathedral but, though I must have seen it many times when I first worked in London, simply cannot relate it to the current urban scene. Technically, the viaduct was over Ludgate Hill rather than Fleet St. Pity you don't get a Google street view with this! http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5146&lon=-0.1046&layers=176 Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 I can think of two one historic and one current. The historic one is saltburn where the railway continued albeit only a few hundred yards but did continue into the Zetland hotel. The other one or you may consider it two is Sheringham where the former BR Sheringham branch was extended from its 1967 terminus across the road two the old through station which is now the north Norfolk railways station, obviously this could work both ways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 If anything, the area just north of HV, into Farringdon is even more fascinating. This is a good place to start http://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/london-terminals-fullsome-farringdon-part-1/ So many potential layouts in a square mile! BTW, the LSWR used Ludgate Hill station as its City terminus, before the advent of the Waterloo and City. The route was out via tooting, Merton and Wimbledon. The trains reversed near Snow Hill, where the LSWR had its own siding loops with, I have a hazy idea, turntable or sector plate loco release. All of which is interesting, but might not help answer the original question ......... Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 You did say you didn't mind the thread developing as a conversation! What I do find incredible is just how totally Holborn Viaduct station and the viaduct over Fleet Street has disappeared. Old railways usually leave some trace behiind but the area has been so comprehensively redeveloped that you'd never know it was ever there nor that the steep grade that takes the Thameslink line under Fleet St. used to be the other side of it after the line had crossed above Fleet Street. I'd have to admit that the railway viaduct did nothing for the view of St. Paul's Cathedral but, though I must have seen it many times when I first worked in London, simply cannot relate it to the current urban scene. If you do want to find out more about the logistics (as I understand it 'self financed' through re-dev of the whole route N of the Thames as a high rent/low rise continuous run of offices): You can contact the (rail nut) developers' architect who reckons the removal of the viaduct over Ludgate Hill was his greatest town planning coup here where he runs a railway B&B at Saughtree station. It helped that he had Prince Charles on his side about the view of St Pauls. Geoff retired last year after he finished a huge restoration job on Gilbert Scott's gothic St Pancras Hotel. dh PS Back OT - while on the North British - I believe Scots Gap was a terminus for its last years while a part of the link from the Border Counties at Reedsmouth continued past. It was used to transport tanks for testing from Vickers Scotswood right up till the mid 1970s. After which it seemed to be more fun to drive them up to the ranges along the narrow roads! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I seem to remember that Longridge (end of branch from Preston) had a quarry some way beyond the station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted August 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2015 Tunbridge Wells West might be another possible source of inspiration. Most passenger trains terminated there, with just a few running through the single-line Grove tunnel, plus oil trains used to use the station to run-round before heading back to High Brooms and the oil depot there. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2015 Bewdley on the SVR 1963-1969. After through passenger services closed in 1963, services terminated at Bewdley until January 1970. Coal traffic continued beyond Bewdley until Alveley Colliery closed in 1969. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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