Hroth Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Who will be the first to model the Manure Works (not I, I hasten to add)? An ideal location for a little Hornby Peckett... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2019 All this talk of Birkenhead has made me wonder: any tattooed girls about? Or maybe I’ve changed my mind... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim15B Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'm still not sure that Warrington was the furthest GWR point "north of Wolverhampton". I may have missed something, but why "furthest point north of Wolverhampton"? Is there a "furthest point north" south of Wolverhampton, or a point further north than that north of the aforementioned town. What is Wolverhampton's significance to the GWR's most northerly point? Apologies if the explaination is embedded elsewhere in the web that is CA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) why are we on the West coast ? Edited January 17, 2019 by nick_bastable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim15B Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Who will be the first to model the Manure Works (not I, I hasten to add)? I wonder if the manure works were connected with the import of marine guano from Peru. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) I wish I'd had Northroader's RCH map about my person when I worked on projects in the area, because I was constantly getting confused as to which side of what river each site was on! Fortunately, as "the engineer from London", who could have been given a very hard time by the locals, the 'area' guy that I liaised with proved to be a fellow narrow-gauge railway buff, who contributed a lot of archival work to J I C Boyd's books about NG railways in Caernarvonshire. One job involved renewing a very large 1930s high voltage switchboard at the Merseyrail Shore Road substation and pumping station, a truly fascinating 'cathedral to steam and electricity', built for the original Mersey Railway electrification, which had huge (I mean about the size of a shower cubicle for each cell) batteries to allow trains to escape the tunnel in the event of loss of main supply, the lifeless hulks of which were still in situ in the 1980s. I think part of the place is a museum now. EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shore_Road_Pumping_Station ......... a fascinating place, but now closed to the public again, it seems. Edited January 17, 2019 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I wonder if the manure works were connected with the import of marine guano from Peru. More likely the disposal of cattle manure from the Irish cattle boats. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'm still not sure that Warrington was the furthest GWR point "north of Wolverhampton". I may have missed something, but why "furthest point north of Wolverhampton"? Is there a "furthest point north" south of Wolverhampton, or a point further north than that north of the aforementioned town. What is Wolverhampton's significance to the GWR's most northerly point? Apologies if the explaination is embedded elsewhere in the web that is CA. Dunno!!! Possibly because Wolverhampton was the nexus of the Northern Division of the GWR (and a major loco engineering works at one point). North of Wolverhampton, Here be Dragons!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Ilfracombe Goods ... I fear I will trespass on your patience, but I have a specific SW example in mind, which I will explain, and an unrelated wish for one on CA ... Once or twice I have mentioned my desire to model Barnstaple Town. The idea of a NG/SG interchange station has always appealed as a subject and this is a very modest interchange, so makes a practical option. I have always admired the big Manning Wardles of the L&B and I also have a fondness for the SW. I like Adams classes, which seem to have had almost exclusive possession of the branch in the 1900s and 1910s; I don't think a Drummond M7 was seen there before 1919. I do like Drummond passenger livery, however, so best of both worlds for me. Furthermore, the NG and SG were either side of a shared platform, which is to my mind a very attractive set up. It is well-known that the Ilfracombe Goods class was a standard Beyer Peacock product, ordered by Beattie Junior with the needs of the stiffly graded Ilfracombe branch in mind, though they were seen elsewhere in the South West. Three were delivered in early 1873, two more followed in 1874 and a sixth in 1875. These are little engines, with 4' 6 1/2" wheels at 6'4" + 7'6", and 4-wheel tenders. This makes them even smaller than the Beyer 0-6-0s supplied to Llanelly Railway & Dock Co. in 1868 (with 4'9" wheels at 7'2" + 7'6") and 1870 (with 4'8 1/2" wheels at 7'5" + 7'6"). The picture below is of 282, one of the first three, as built. That would make a very good WN loco IMHO, and very much the BP equivalent of the Sharp Stewart 'Small Goods' (4'6" wheels at 6'9" + 8'). Anyway, these six were rebuilt with new boilers, domes, chimneys and larger cabs 1888-1890. Also by 1890, they had all received second hand LSW 6-wheeled tenders of various types. According to Bradley RCTS, none of them seem to have remained in service on the Ilfracombe branch past the turn of the Century, so they can barely have overlapped with the existence of the L&B (1898). Withdrawals commenced in 1905. We are not, therefore, concerned with these six, save insofar as a sister engine might have been supplied to the WNR and survived in substantially unrebuilt form. For the Barnstaple Town project, we are interested in the survivor of the final two locomotives, 393 and 394, supplied in 1880, bringing the class total to 8. These two differed in having thicker tyres, bringing the wheel diameter up to 4' 7 1/2". After 1890, these last pair looked older that the original six because they were not rebuilt. 393, as 0393, was withdrawn in 1905, and did not survive as a Colonel Stephens acquisition, her boiler went to Nine Elms brickworks. 0394 did survive and remained at Barnstaple shed, so, if I am to represent the branch's 'signature' engine anywhere in the Edwardian period, 0394 is the one to go for and the body of the model I have just bought is a very good match for her, as seen in the 1907 photograph with the 6-wheel tender she acquired in 1891. She was laid aside in December 1913, but was put into service as an Eastleigh works shunter and happily went to the East Kent as its No.3 in August 1918, where she worked for sometime in LSW livery.. One mystery remains. Although not re-boilered, according to Bradley 393 and 394 received new steel fireboxes in May-July 1900. Although the domes were not re-sited, it is said that they received Drummond-type dome-top safety valves, and, indeed, you can see these clearly on the picture below of 0394 as EKR No.3. Yet, in the picture at Barnstaple, apparently take in October 1907, the Salter spring valves are still there. Just the way I like my domes. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) North end of Oxley viaduct, where the broad gauge ended. (It gave a back shunt to goods exchange at Victoria basin) [Replying to the previous post to this last one sort of fing, cos the GWR got to Barnstaple Victoria, too] Edited January 17, 2019 by Northroader 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 In Birkenhead, the GWR did get a bit farther north than Woodside, the passenger station. The Birkenhead joint also threw off a line north from Rock Ferry, which fetched up at the Float, where it linked into MDHB lines all round the docks in this area, and carried heavy freight traffic out, so you could see 28xx and the small panniers. According to the map, a branch line off this crossed the south dock locks, and was pure GWR, serving their Morpeth Dock goods.. There was once a proposal by the GWR to run passenger trains over the dock lines, across Four Bridges to the Secombe landing stage to serve Liverpool by the ferry. I belive it never came to anything, though some track improvements were done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2019 I may have missed something, but why "furthest point north of Wolverhampton"? Last outpost of civilisation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Last outpost of civilisation? Heading south, that is! Jim (running for cover) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 WOLVERHAMPTON Alight Here and Return from Whence You Came 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Another smallish SG/NG interchange existed at Welshpool. I did see it when on a NGRS visit in the hiatus between ownership by BR and the preservation society. I do have a large scale OS map of Welshpool dated 1913 , the date of opening of the W&L , but it does not show even the proposed route of the NG track through the town. It was part of several NG projects in my youth, which never passed the back of an envelope stage. Found the map in the loft recently,anyone want it?? Gratis of course. (join the rush by PM !) Or it goes in the bin, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 WOLVERHAMPTON Alight Here and Return from Whence You Came Especially if arriving at High Level Station ! Have a care Sir... Wolverhampton should be held in Reverence... I was born there!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2019 Heading south, that is! Jim (running for cover) Aye, ‘cos he’s well north of the last outpost, and heading south is the on.y way to get back to civilisation.(Wolverhampton must have improved cobsiderably since I was last there in the early 90s, though.) WOLVERHAMPTON Alight Here and Return from Whence You Came Just “whence”, not “from whence”. Whence means from/to where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2019 WOLVERHAMPTON Alight Here and Return from Whence You Came You can get off any time you like but you can never leave... (with apologies to The Eagles). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Ilfracombe Goods Addendum ... In commenting that the IGs were a standard BP design, Bradley mentions that similar locos were supplied to overseas customers, including Sweden. Before the Twelve Year Olds at the Science Museum Group caused the loss of the online archive of BP works photographs and drawings, I had saved some examples of the types that BP might have supplied to a British freelance company, and here is one supplied to Sweden in 1863. Locos with varying degrees of similarity were supplied to others. Closest in appearance were those supplied to the Madras Railway (5'6" Gauge) (1865) and to the Australasia Coal Company (1876). Unfortunately I don't have dimensions or drawings of these others, but there is a GA for the Swedish loco of 1863. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted January 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2019 What on earth did they do lose the entire BP archive James? That sounds like a very un-museum kind of folly and if it's a total loss that would be a very great pity indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) If I recall from an earlier post, they haven't physically lost them, it's just that they are no longer readily accessible on line! Jim Edited January 18, 2019 by Caley Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) What on earth did they do lose the entire BP archive James? That sounds like a very un-museum kind of folly and if it's a total loss that would be a very great pity indeed. EDIT: As Jim says, it's not the archive that is lost, but the online access to it. The Beyer Peacock archive is held by the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. Like our no-longer-National National Railway Museum, it became part of the Science Museum Group and was forced to endure a pointless and pointlessly expensive re-brand, whereby the component museums have to conform to a new corporate branding . As if we cared. I blame the PR Popsies ("Popsy" here is not a "gender-specific" term. In my experience, all young people working in PR are Popsies; it's a state of mind, or, possibly, mindlessness). I am inclined to reserve greater blame for the idiots who listen to them and who pay them hundreds of thousands of pounds for the latest fashion in Emperor's Clothes. Apparently the Manchester museum's website, which included the online BP catalogue, did not conform to the new house style, so they axed it, online archive access and all, to replace it with a "Group" style website dumbed-down to the point of inanity, apparently designed in the belief that only the educationally sub-normal attend museums, and failing to include access to the online collections. You may detect that I find this state of affairs less than satisfactory. Edited January 18, 2019 by Edwardian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted January 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2019 James, do you have a copy of British Railway Journal No.22 (Summer 1988)? There is a very comprehensive article in there on the Ilfracombe Goods. If not, let me know and I’ll run it over the scanner at work one morning. Has useful drawings of original and rebuilt (albeit K&ESR days) locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 James, do you have a copy of British Railway Journal No.22 (Summer 1988)? There is a very comprehensive article in there on the Ilfracombe Goods. If not, let me know and I’ll run it over the scanner at work one morning. Has useful drawings of original and rebuilt (albeit K&ESR days) locos. No, I don't, Neil, so that would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted January 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) WOLVERHAMPTON Alight Here and Return from Whence You Came We passed through Wolverhampton last year on the way to Whightwick Manor https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/wightwick-manor-and-gardens (a Preraphaelite treasure house highly recommended to all who frequent this topic) and I must say I thought it was a perfectly pleasant-looking town. Edited January 18, 2019 by Andy Kirkham 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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