Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

7 hours ago, brianusa said:

In these United States police carry guns; they have since their inception.  The local populace also have guns.  Guns are glorified, - gangster movies, Westerns, not forgetting  John Wayne winning wars for the Alamo to Vietnam.  Politicians spout First Amendment rights as a matter of course as do their constituents.  So criminals have guns as well and when they come in contact with police, sometimes the inevitable occurs.  And when the criminal is black, unarmed or not, protests erupt as a matter of course and go on and on and on, until the protest is lost among all the other groups that have joined the parade from abortion protesters and gay rights. 

HEADLINE NEWS. Police have shot an unarmed black man.........................  Again?

     Brian.

 

You're really selling the place.

 

An arch female of my acquaintance is wont to observe that the US is one huge self-publicity machine.  If so, you've just wiped out the benefit gained by 10 seasons of Friends!

 

3 hours ago, runs as required said:

 

As for statue bashing - is the word  "iconoclast"  now generally taken to be a pejorative attribute?

It used to mean "willing to question existing norms"; now smashing icons equates to  "mindless terrorist vandalism"

 

 

 

 

For me it's always meant intolerance by vandalism; one evil in the service of another.

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Well those original iconoclasts were responsible for the mindless defacing of statues and other artwork because they offended the iconoclast's idiotic religious beliefs. My view of them is that I hope these religious vandals are now burning in whatever their mindless belief deemed hell.

 

 

Indeed, never a badge of pride in my view; the literal iconoclasts were during a phase of Byzantine history.  After them I think of a bunch of wowsers with bad haircuts smashing up English parish churches in the 1640s. 

 

I blame Moses ... he should have read the label before taking those tablets.

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Some idiotic singer changed his/her name from Antebellum to something forgettable

 

 

To be fair, I always thought calling oneself Lady Antebellum was pretty stupid to begin with.

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Here in Australia a company that made a craft beer called Colonial Ale publicly announced that in deference to the BLM movement they were removing the name Colonial because of its connotations.

 

 

So,

 

There was a wild non-indigenous boy, Jack Duggan was his name?

 

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

As for the plague I can only say that we humans are its best friend. People seem to be treating it like a newly acquired kitten or puppy that they are just eager to thrust on everyone so they can really really appreciate its adorable fluffy cute ways. I had to make a trip to a big shopping centre near me today (American readers - what you call a mall), and spent a harrowing few minutes trying to avoid other patrons who seem to think that social distancing just isn't their preferred way of life.

 

 

 

I am less inclined than ever to go anywhere.  In the binary reaction of the Great British Public it's either in or out, safe or not safe, restrictions or no restrictions.

 

No one in Morrisons is now wearing gloves or masks and the social distancing thing is failing.  Had to visit our local 'pooter shop to drop off something for repair.  Despite clear one-at-a-time policy stated on the door, old gent follows me in and then removes his mask to speak to us once inside small shop.

 

They really are all out to kill themselves and me. 

 

In other news, Good morning!

 

A kind donation to parish funds by Regularity, but, what do we think is the best use we can put it to?

 

Any look-a-likes, or are we in freelance territory?

 

 

[Annie]

41 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

You're really selling the place.

 

An arch female of my acquaintance is wont to observe that the US is one huge self-publicity machine.  If so, you've just wiped out the benefit gained by 10 seasons of Friends!

 

Perhaps Mr Trump can build a wall entirely around the USA and then we wouldn't have to worry about it anymore.

 

My daughter has just finished watching all 10 seasons of 'Friends' and I have to make the comment that the series must be set in some kind of alternative reality that has nothing at all to do with the USA that our planet has been issued with.  The one we've got seems to have been delivered by Amazon and kicked over the fence by a bored delivery driver.

 

41 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

No one in Morrisons is now wearing gloves or masks and the social distancing thing is failing.  Had to visit our local 'pooter shop to drop off something for repair.  Despite clear one-at-a-time policy stated on the door, old gent follows me in and then removes his mask to speak to us once inside small shop.

 

They really are all out to kill themselves and me. 

 

 

I have a wonderful medical grade black Darth Vader type mask complete with hissing valves, but I haven't needed to use it yet because I haven't had a need or reason to leave the house.  Things are better here, but people seem to have forgotten that COVID-19 ever existed which led to some of the people who were supposed to be managing secure quarantine sites forgetting about the rules and letting people leave without being tested first.  Fortunately no harm was done due to the Health Dept tracing teams getting onto to tracing all contacts very quickly.  Now we have our military supervising quarantine which might give those who haven't got the message yet that it's a serious business and we don't want to have the virus to get a foothold here again.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

17 minutes ago, Annie said:

  Things are better here, but people seem to have forgotten that COVID-19 ever existed which led to some of the people who were supposed to be managing secure quarantine sites forgetting about the rules and letting people leave without being tested first. 

 

 

Well that is almost similar to what might be at the root of our latest burst. Apparently workers at one of the hotels set aside to quarantine returning travellers were somewhat less than assiduous in how they personally behaved and carried the infection back to family members who then spread it on ..........

 

We now have 10 suburbs locked down in an effort to contain this little whoopsie. 

 

Where do we get such people  

[monkeysarefun]

9 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Well that is almost similar to what might be at the root of our latest burst. Apparently workers at one of the hotels set aside to quarantine returning travellers were somewhat less than assiduous in how they personally behaved and carried the infection back to family members who then spread it on ..........

 

We now have 10 suburbs locked down in an effort to contain this little whoopsie. 

 

Where do we get such people  

 

NSW use the army and Federal police to make sure things don't go badly. incoming travellers get a police/armed forces escort to the hotel for their two week stay.

 

Re USA, there's no situation so bad that can't be lightened up with a novelty train.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by monkeysarefun

[Hroth]

Before I saw the caption, I noticed Lincolns portrait on the front and got the impression that it was for his funeral train!

 

Less of the novelty look.

Windsor/Bristol Castle* at the head of  King George VIs funeral train (Paddington to Windsor)

 

 

All we needed was the Royal Coat of Arms on the smokebox sides, the Royal Headcode and giving the loco a good bulling up.  I like the natty crown on the smokebox lamp!

 

 

* King George died while the GWR BR(WR) "Royal" engine, Windsor Castle  was undergoing a heavy overhaul so the number and plates were transferred to a recently outshopped loco, Bristol Castle. Naturally, railway enthusiasts spotted the subterfuge straight away!  The identities were never swapped back afterwards.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Hroth
details...

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

In other news, Good morning!

 

A kind donation to parish funds by Regularity, but, what do we think is the best use we can put it to?

 

Any look-a-likes, or are we in freelance territory?

 

 

 

Silly me, forgot to add the picture ....

 

 

 

Boiler pitch and overall body dimensions not far off some Brighton 0-6-0s, but, then, once you've ditched the smokebox, boiler mountings, cab and spalshers, you're bound to ask what exactly the benefit of the donor body was?  Hence it's either a look-alike, if such existed, or a freelance design.

 

All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Re USA, there's no situation so bad that can't be lightened up with a novelty train.

 

 

All US locos before the 1880s look like novelty trains to me - it's still an aesthetic I cannot quite take seriously - and from the 1880s they all look plain ugly.

 

I like those "Old Timers", but they will never look quite real to me!

 

11 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Before I saw the caption, I noticed Lincolns portrait on the front and got the impression that it was for his funeral train!

 

Less of the novelty look.

Windsor/Bristol Castle* at the head of  King George VIs funeral train (Paddington to Windsor)

 

 

All we needed was the Royal Coat of Arms on the smokebox sides, the Royal Headcode and giving the loco a good bulling up.  I like the natty crown on the smokebox lamp!

 

There you are, a Collett with smoke deflectors. Or does that make it a Stanier?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

* King George died while the GWR "Royal" engine, Windsor Castle  was undergoing a heavy overhaul so the number and plates were transferred to a recently outshopped loco, Bristol Castle. Naturally, railway enthusiasts spotted the subterfuge straight away!  The identities were never swapped back afterwards.

 

The GWR did that sort of thing a lot.

[Nearholmer]

You’ll enjoy this then.

 

Spotted in the science museum at Brum, during those far-off days when you could casually go on an outing without worrying About catching/spreading the dreaded.
 

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

There you are, a Collett with smoke deflectors. Or does that make it a Stanier?

 

 

It makes you realise that, as with streamlining, GWR locos looked far better without dodgy extraneous gadgets! 

 

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The GWR did that sort of thing a lot.

 

Benefits of standardisation!  Heritage railways come across it a lot when overhauling their GWR locos, such a cornucopia of different loco numbers stamped on parts!  But to be honest, I think that was just mix'n'match in the works, I don't think that identity swaps between whole locos was that common...

 

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Benefits of standardisation!  Heritage railways come across it a lot when overhauling their GWR locos, such a cornucopia of different loco numbers stamped on parts!  But to be honest, I think that was just mix'n'match in the works, I don't think that identity swaps between whole locos was that common...

 

 

The GWR did that at the drop of a hat if there was a publicity reason for an identity swop,

[Skinnylinny]

34 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Boiler pitch and overall body dimensions not far off some Brighton 0-6-0s, but, then, once you've ditched the smokebox, boiler mountings, cab and spalshers, you're bound to ask what exactly the benefit of the donor body was?  Hence it's either a look-alike, if such existed, or a freelance design.

Other than being a fairly faithful replica of the Bachmann C class (right down to the brake shoes being part of the tender frames for some reason...) with some plumbing changes, a re-livery and a few smaller tweaks, it is very much a close match for the GSR D class mixed-traffic 0-6-0, although they were bought in 1887, and there is a suggestion that Mr. Wainwright might have been inspired by the GSR locomotives!

[Edwardian]

21 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

Other than being a fairly faithful replica of the Bachmann C class (right down to the brake shoes being part of the tender frames for some reason...) with some plumbing changes, a re-livery and a few smaller tweaks, it is very much a close match for the GSR D class mixed-traffic 0-6-0, although they were bought in 1887, and there is a suggestion that Mr. Wainwright might have been inspired by the GSR locomotives!

 

Well, yes, I have very much in mind that the freelance version has been successfully done, so that makes a successful fresh take on the design that much harder!

 

On the other hand, Wainwright might have been influenced by Aspinall ...

 

 

Further, I'd like to understand what This locomotive's origins were.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

the literal iconoclasts were during a phase of Byzantine history. 

 

Now that's the sort of general knowledge that ought to be more generally known. To which one might add, a literal iconoclast defaces paintings, not statues - Mary Richardson, for example. I think the Byzantine orthodox (iconodules) did not have religious statuary, to avoid falling foul of the first commandment's injunction against making graven images; the icon was their work-around. That prohibition has never troubled he Latin west: in those places where the Reformation succeeded in removing medieval statuary, there has in the long run been no resistance to putting up statues of the reformers, though it's probably thought bad form to light a candle before one.

 

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

A kind donation to parish funds by Regularity, but, what do we think is the best use we can put it to?

 

Any look-a-likes, or are we in freelance territory?

 

I believe you have a proper, working Surtees Class C? And I think you've seen @AVS1998's backdating to a B2? But it looks like pretty much any standard late 19th century 0-6-0; the sort of thing Kitsons or The Yorkshire Engine Co. might turn out for a minor line with a sudden flush of funds. I'd move the sandbox from the middle splasher to the leading one, or do away with it completely, to make the look more "generic". 

 

16 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The GWR did that at the drop of a hat if there was a publicity reason for an identity swop,

 

I'm not sure that Crewe wasn't first to that game, having more named engines than anyone else at the time. In June 1873, the Shah of Persia visited Crewe works. The first Problem to hand, No. 806 Waverley, had its nameplates temporarily replaced (or overlaid) with ones inscribed Nasr Ed Din in Persian script (and perhaps on one side only) and a rather absurd Eastern Potentate's crown mounted on the forward ring of the boiler. In the photograph (which I haven't found online) the nameplate is black with a light-coloured inscription, which makes me suspect it wasn't a proper brass plate but a cardboard cut-out. The engine almost certainly never ran in that condition but Newton No. 942, built shortly after, was named Shah of Persia, name and number passing to its replacement renewed Precedent in 1893. No. 806 resumed her Scott-inspired name, carrying it until withdrawal in 1903, when it passed on the Precursor No. 2031.

[NeilHB]

Nile of this parish has also modded the Bachmann C class into a convincing freelance Victorian 0-6-0: 

 

 

 

[Skinnylinny]

Oh but they chop up so beautifully! I really must take a break from all these carriages at some point and return to the 0-4-4t and 2-4-0. Could I suggest that an 0-6-0t would look very nice, too? Chop up the tender to make a bunker, and side tanks made from the tender sides could hide any motor block visible under the boiler, and would give some handy splashers (they're separately fitted) for the bits box. 


[edit to add: Actually, that's turned out even nicer than I expected! Do let me know if you choose not to do this one, as I might nick the design instead!]

Edited June 30, 2020 by Skinnylinny

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, NeilHB said:

Nile of this parish has also modded the Bachmann C class into a convincing freelance Victorian 0-6-0: 

 

But the Class C is a convincing Victorian 0-6-0... 

 

 

[NeilHB]

1 minute ago, Skinnylinny said:

Oh but they chop up so beautifully! I really must take a break from all these carriages at some point and return to the 0-4-4t and 2-4-0. Could I suggest that an 0-6-0t would look very nice, too? Chop up the tender to make a bunker, and side tanks made from the tender sides could hide any motor block visible under the boiler, and would give some handy splashers (they're separately fitted) for the bits box. 

 

 

I do like that idea Linny - looks rather nice! 

 

20 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Further, I'd like to understand what This locomotive's origins were.

 

James, if memory serves me correctly its ex Glasgow and South Western Railway. Will check the books later after work and confirm. 

 

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I believe you have a proper, working Surtees Class C? And I think you've seen @AVS1998's backdating to a B2? But it looks like pretty much any standard late 19th century 0-6-0; the sort of thing Kitsons or The Yorkshire Engine Co. might turn out for a minor line with a sudden flush of funds. I'd move the sandbox from the middle splasher to the leading one, or do away with it completely, to make the look more "generic". 

 

 

I agree about the sandbox.  As this is in effect a body only, I can take liberties with the splasher size and position to allow smaller wheels differently spaced if necessary.  

 

It looks a little large and modern for the WNR to be buying, though it's not necessarily inappropriate.  However, the WNR does not really have any truly freelance designs, as it does not build its own locos, thus any WNR has to represent some prototype from somewhere. 

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Further, I'd like to understand what This locomotive's origins were.

 

G&SWR Manson 160 Class of 1897-9.

 

@NeilHB got there first!

Edited June 30, 2020 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

It looks a little large and modern for the WNR to be buying, though it's not necessarily inappropriate.  However, the WNR does not really have any truly freelance designs, as it does not build its own locos, thus any WNR has to represent some prototype from somewhere. 

 

If you say its to the same design as a 0-6-0 supplied to the Maryport & Carlisle, I think only two or three people would rumble you. 

 

EDIT: I'm not sure that isn't a rip-off of the Manson design, some of which were built by Dubs, Neilson, and in 1907 (the date of the M&C engine), NBL. The G&SWR engine shed at Carlisle was out on the Maryport line...

Edited June 30, 2020 by Compound2632

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 I like those "Old Timers", but they will never look quite real to me

If I was a 19th century American loco designer I'd have stuck a giant pretend wind up key on the side.

 

Which would have  been fun for the kids and as a bonus really annoy modern US finescale modellers.

 

 

 

.

[Nearholmer]

Well, one(?) of the real ones was converted into a truly ungainly saddle-tank, so you could copy that. https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/24848061784

 

 

Personally, I think it’s hard to disguise a C, partly because they have subtly distinctive details, but partly because they are a very late iteration of the general type, so are quite big, with a decent smoke-box, whereas the classics didn’t get to look like that until after   re-boilering either side of WW1.

 

Nice as Linny’s side tank is, to me it looks too early for the boiler and general size. The C is a loco that is bigger than an Austerity tank, it’s a chunky old beast, and it’s very modern by 1905 standards.
 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Well that is almost similar to what might be at the root of our latest burst. Apparently workers at one of the hotels set aside to quarantine returning travellers were somewhat less than assiduous in how they personally behaved and carried the infection back to family members who then spread it on ..........

 

We now have 10 suburbs locked down in an effort to contain this little whoopsie. 

 

Where do we get such people  

 

Most countries seem to breed enough of there own why they need to import more is beyond me.

 

In truth we look after those disadvantaged by lack of sense or abilities, humane but it does have consequences. We just have to learn how to deal with the consequences.

 

I was very encouraged by a bit of film sent into Gardeners World. It was from I blieve three sisters  two of whom I think may have learning difficulties. Because of the lockdown they have not be able to do their normal activities (some sort of craft stuff) so they have taken up gardening with a lot of enthusiasm and are doing something engaging productive and useful getting a real sense of achievement. Really encouraging. 

There was also one from a lady born with deformed upper limbs due to thalidomide showing how she adapts to gardening. I tell you her garden is magnificent. Again very inspiring. Much better than all this BLM stuff which appears to be showing their lives don't matter to them by their disregard for  Covid19.

All lives matter from People down to brids, bees, and even slugs and snails. Treat it all with respect.

Don

 

[Edwardian]

47 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Well, one(?) of the real ones was converted into a truly ungainly saddle-tank, so you could copy that.

 

Personally, I think it’s hard to disguise a C, partly because they have subtly distinctive details, but partly because they are a very late iteration of the general type, so are quite big, with a decent smoke-box, whereas the classics didn’t get to look like that until after   re-boilering either side of WW1.
 

 

 

Agree, hence the 'large and modern' comment.  Shape wise I could see a LSWR 0395 in it, for instance, but that is a much larger boiler on the C, and that takes out all but the latest Victorian locos.

50 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

If you say its to the same design as a 0-6-0 supplied to the Maryport & Carlisle, I think only two or three people would rumble you. 

 

You may have something there.  The resemblance is uncanny.  The caption says this is a 1908 loco.

 

However, it looks very like a Furness Railway D3 (1899), built by both Naysmyth Wilson and Sharp Stewart.

 

 

Now, the interesting thing here is that the FR ordered them to replace the very same old 1860s onward Sharp 0-6-0s that the WNR (and the Cambrian) also had. So it's a natural progression for the WN.

 

If Sharps started building them for the WNR in the early 1900s, well, it wouldn't be the first pirated design we've seen, would it?  Plus, Sharp's order for the WNR could differ slightly enough from the D3 to render any of my inaccuracies accurate.

 

EDIT: Apropos my earlier comment that, as this is really just a body for my purposes, I can use different, smaller, wheels and different wheelbase, I've just checked the D3 and it's 4'71/2" diameter wheels, evenly centred at 7'9".  Now, I know of no proprietary chassis that matches this, but the wheel diameter takes us straight into GW territory (NER, too, but the GWR is better represented RTR).  

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Edwardian

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

Lovely, 0-6-0 tender engines. Something so endearingly brisk about them. 

 

 

[Regularity]

25 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Plus, Sharp's order for the WNR could differ slightly enough from the D3 to render any of my inaccuracies accurate.

 

EDIT: Apropos my earlier comment that, as this is really just a body for my purposes, I can use different, smaller, wheels and different wheelbase, I've just check the D3 and it's 4'71/2" diameter wheels, evenly centred at 7'9".  Now, I know of no proprietary chassis that matches this, but the wheel diameter takes us straight into GW territory.

Total wheelbase would be the same as a 5700 chassis, which was 7’3”+8’3”, which immediately creates the difference you are looking for to make it subtly different. Or a 6400 chassis, with 7’4”+7’4”, with more overhang.

Either way, enough of a difference and you would have a new design of loco on the WNR books, still in the process of being delivered, so possibly the first example to arrive?