RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'll allow you to get away with that thinly veiled attempt at subliminal marketing just because, 1) Dia. 1/507 Brake vans were an integral part of the Cliffe Uddingston ECML traffic, 2) The trains destination was in your locale and the product it carried allowed the building of a better Scotland, 3) Your'e a canny Scott with direct North East lineage, 4) You may consider casting a white metal line of heritage cast iron & concrete 4mm lamposts, 5) I constantly drag your threads off topic, 6) You've offered to take the team out for an Indian! How dare you suggest I have a fixation on street furniture, fixtures and fittings. Present you evidence. (In another thread if you please). BTW. I once photographed these two curvaceous beauties. P1010015BassixNorthAccessRdEditSM.jpg If it wasn't for the building of your kitchen the nearer of these two absolute stunners, might still survive! Tenuously on topic, as these lamposts were daily threaded by successions of Conlat L's, Covhops, Presflos and probably the odd singleton Cemflo. AARGhhhhhhh! I'm off again. Note to self, Write out 1000 times, "I must not drag my own topic, off topic". P Going in a strange direction of off topic does anyone know if there is any models of this type of lamp post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2016 Tell him what a smashing job he did when taking them. Thank him for posting them up. The sight of them made me go all of a quiver. P Will do, Porce. He's a top line modeller, but 'Went American' years ago - led me astray, he did. I bet you know him by sight.....lives in East Boldon. Can be seen driving the biggest 70's US convertible you have ever seen! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Going in a strange direction of off topic does anyone know if there is any models of this type of lamp post? Don't think so but Mr Franks may be pleased to know I thinks they were manufactured in Southbank Road, Kirkiintilloch, Glasgow. Apparently a niche lamp post and by Royal Appointment no less. Girlings re-inforced concrete street lighting columns advert, c1951 by mikeyashworth, on Flickr Can be seen driving the biggest 70's US convertible you have ever seen! Not that bl**dy great pink thing? P (who's now breaking into a sweat trying to think how to get back on topic). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm sure I've a photo of the northbound train behind an BRCW Type 3 at King's Cross, in a "Locospotter's Annual" from the mid/late 60s. Surely routing via the Widened Lines and the Hotel Curve was something out of the ordinary? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Any evidence of the train with class 33's north of York? So I can justify a pair of them in County Durham. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm sure I've a photo of the northbound train behind an BRCW Type 3 at King's Cross, in a "Locospotter's Annual" from the mid/late 60s. Surely routing via the Widened Lines and the Hotel Curve was something out of the ordinary? Hi Pete I actually witnessed this on at least three occasions that I can recall . Unfortunately no camera available on any of them but even if I had one I would have probably have missed the shot because from memory they just shot out of the 'hole' non-stop and clanked their way across the track-work into gasworks tunnel and disappeared. Double headed on only one of the workings I saw though and still seemed like a lengthy train on each occasion. I seem to remember it was more or less straight after the peak hour and just caught you unaware as nobody would be expecting a freight working non-stop through a London Terminus! Oh to be able to turn the clock back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks BV, Must've been quite a sight as you say. Anyone know their regular route? Or was this the one - which I somehow doubt..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 How long did the cemflos last and where was their last area of operation? Was it Earles Sidings? I photographed some at Sheffield on Hope/Earles workings early 1980s, and Paul Bartlett has "went out of use in the later 1980s". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks BV, Must've been quite a sight as you say. Anyone know their regular route? Or was this the one - which I somehow doubt..... I think I have seen that photo at Kings Cross but I can't think where. This photo has the route as via Dalston E Junc and reverse, via Cannonbury spur to Finsbury Park. http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p726273221/h11217f85#h11217f85 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm sure I've a photo of the northbound train behind an BRCW Type 3 at King's Cross, in a "Locospotter's Annual" from the mid/late 60s. Surely routing via the Widened Lines and the Hotel Curve was something out of the ordinary? Hi Pete I actually witnessed this on at least three occasions that I can recall . Unfortunately no camera available on any of them but even if I had one I would have probably have missed the shot because from memory they just shot out of the 'hole' non-stop and clanked their way across the track-work into gasworks tunnel and disappeared. Double headed on only one of the workings I saw though and still seemed like a lengthy train on each occasion. I seem to remember it was more or less straight after the peak hour and just caught you unaware as nobody would be expecting a freight working non-stop through a London Terminus! Oh to be able to turn the clock back! I think I have seen that photo at Kings Cross but I can't think where. This photo has the route as via Dalston E Junc and reverse, via Cannonbury spur to Finsbury Park. http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p726273221/h11217f85#h11217f85 All very interesting! I've had a long running 'discussion' (argument) with a mate of mine who said it went via the Widened Lines - I didn't think it would have done because of the weight of the train. It seems perhaps we were both right. I had thought it gained the ECML via the Harringay curve, but the routing via Dalston & Cannonbury would certainly explain the brake vans at either end. Would like to see a picture of it at King's Cross! Thinking about the Widened Lines route, apart from Hotel Curve I should think the steepest bit would have been to the west of Farringdon station where it passes under the Circle Line, which would have been downhill for the northbound cement train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Found the photo I was thinking of - 1968 Locospotters' Annual p.27. However, it's not the Cemflos (as I thought) but D6517 hauling a northbound freight - first wagon is a 5-plank open. Caption reads "D6517 climbs slowly past KX suburban from the City Widened Lines". Taken by Alec Swain, the date must be around 1964-1966. Possibly on a Hither Green - Ferme Park inter-yard working. So did more freight traverse the Widened Lines in BR days than we thought? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) This photo has the route as via Dalston E Junc and reverse, via Cannonbury spur to Finsbury Park. http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p726273221/h11217f85#h11217f85 I don't know when the signal box at Dalston E Junction closed, but we where still running round trains there until the early 80's. The train in question was "The Kellogg's" which ran from Marshmoor to Willesden Junction, (where KX men handed the train over to the LM). It ran round in two places, Welwyn GC and Dalston East Junction. There was a ground frame about on the site of Dalston East and West Junctions. Here the guard would hook off the loco, and leaving the train on the Up Poplar, the loco would run back via the Down Poplar to Dalston West Junction and stop behind W Jcn No28 ground disc. From there it would return to the rear, now the front, of the train left on the Up Poplar. I can't remember if the train then used the Ground frame to Xover onto the Down Poplar to return to Dalston West Junction or went wrong road along the Up Poplar to W Jcn No26 ground disk to Xover onto the down line to continue onto Camden Road Junction and Willesden, either direct via Primrose Hill or Gospel Oak, depending on the signalmen. Below is the KX diagram concerned. Dia 284 SX 19:35 on duty. One of my route maps of the time. The groundframe concerned was to the LH edge of the page. An almost related photo to the thread, in that there is a 33 in it. A view east towards the site of Dalston E Jcn. In the original it looks as though the Ground Frame is in the distance, just after the 1st overbridge. It could possibly be a leftover from the days of Dalston East Jcn signal box, converted to Ground Frame operation. I don't know if this is how the Cliffe Hill ran round, but it is a possibility it did it the same way even if the East Box was still around when it ran that way? Paul J. Edited February 1, 2016 by Swindon 123 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Are these any use to anyone from a modelling point view? They are from the Gloucester company photo album so I suppose not to be reproduced without permission. Oh! I'll ask again, has anyone got any evidence of the Cliffe - Uddingston running with class 33's north of York so I can justify them running in County Durham? Bob 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) A few more excellent pictures appearing on Mr Lambert's photostream. including this: Sulzer Type 4 D180 by Tony Lambert, on FlickrSulzer Type 4 D180 by Tony Lambert, on Flickr P Edited yonks down the line to sort broken link. Edited January 26, 2017 by Porcy Mane 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 A few more excellent pictures appearing on Mr Lambert's photostream. including this: Sulzer Type 4 D180 by Tony Lambert, on Flickr P That'll be a nice bit of variety, if ever I get a layout finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have a 1970 WTT and there are two loaded cement trains heading to Scotland: 6S46 Holborough (nr Maidstone) TWO or Cliffe MThO - Grangemouth and 6O53/6O31 return 6S45 Hoo Jct MTFO or Cliffe WThSO - Uddingstone and 6O52/6O36 return Might be worth casting the net wider for any references to Hoo and Holborough as well as Cliffe, though by 1970 the Holborough train was not using Cemflos. Post-Thirsk 6S45 is limited to 35 mph, taking 22 hours to get to Berwick, but with a 2 hour layover in Belmont Yard 6S46 appears to change locos at Berwick, 6S45 appears not to changeover, so I assume the Cromptons had ceased working the train by 1970. Both trains arrive/leave the WTT at Finsbury Park No. 2 Signal Box. The WTT also includes FP to Temple Mills, and both trains are booked via a reversal at Dalton Eastern Jct, with loco changes at Dalston and FP for 6S46 and only Dalston for 6S45. Southbound the headcodes appear to change as noted at Finsbury Park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) The Derby Sulzers website has been expanded to include Class 33's. For January 1965 there is a note about the trialling a route via the widened lines, with class 24 assisting from Farringdon. It doesn't say how long the trial went on for but another note at the end of 1966 says they had been rerouted via the NLL. Somebody must have a picture...... And in 1968, due to the 35 mph restriction the train was routed via the joint line. Evidently this had finished by the time of my 1970 WTT though the speed limit remained. Edited February 1, 2016 by stovepipe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2016 Porce, you're OK, it's black...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 A few more excellent pictures appearing on Mr Lambert's photostream. including this: Sulzer Type 4 D180 by Tony Lambert, on Flickr P Hi all, Love the big dent on the nose! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Oh! I'll ask again, has anyone got any evidence of the Cliffe - Uddingston running with class 33's north of York so I can justify them running in County Durham? Bob No but apparently, in Feb 1961 D6504 ran two return overnight trips to Edinburgh Craigentinny, to test ETH equipment. I know no more, info from the Scot-Rail site. Edited February 1, 2016 by stovepipe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) How long did the cemflos last and where was their last area of operation? Was it Earles Sidings? I photographed some at Sheffield on Hope/Earles workings early 1980s, and Paul Bartlett has "went out of use in the later 1980s". .....see my post on page 1 for a Ditton to Earles (Widnes empties) working with a class 45 via Northwich. The Widnes working via Lymm ran until 1986ish when the Lymm line closed....see my pic on page 1. Dewsbury via Sheffield lasted a little longer....the working switched to PCAs around 1990. Here is a June 1988 view of the Dewsbury empties https://www.flickr.com/photos/walnut_rede/5440988227/in/photostream/ Dave Edited February 1, 2016 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted February 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2016 roughly what year did the sole bar strengthening plates start to be fitted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I have a 1970 WTT and there are two loaded cement trains heading to Scotland: 6S46 Holborough (nr Maidstone) TWO or Cliffe MThO - Grangemouth and 6O53/6O31 return 6S45 Hoo Jct MTFO or Cliffe WThSO - Uddingstone and 6O52/6O36 return ... If it's any help, Holborough (Snodland) was APCM/Blue Circle as well. Hoo Junction would have been the origin for wagons tripped from a nearby cement works (or maybe from multiple ones?). Plenty of APCM to choose from in Kent! Could the Hoo origin have been for wagons from Swanscombe (W of Hoo)? I think Swanscombe only had a connection into the down line, so traffic from there could have needed to go E to Hoo before heading W again towards the north. Maybe. Didn't those APCM bagged cement vans also run to Uddingston? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Didn't those APCM bagged cement vans also run to Uddingston? There is a few photo's about that shows them included among rakes of Cemflos, as with this phot linked to earlier in the thread. http://lner-encyclopedia.com/forums/download/file.php?id=2118&sid=5ee5062db099fbb6848690a0963c8aad&mode=view I think the A4 will probably be on a Aberdeen to Oxwellmains or Uddingston working. The blue Circle vans didn't only carry bagged product. APCM distributed a lot of their product's in stack-able 5 gallon drums. "Snowcem" (whitewash) was one. The NCB was a large customer for Snowcem. Interesting pic as the A4 is missing it's dome cover. P Edited February 2, 2016 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Then that mixed rake would be a feasible explanation for the Hoo Junction train noted above Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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