Lenz LZV100: Changing turnouts in emergency stop mode

[RFS]

I have a Lenz LZV100 DCC system at the current 3.6 level.  There are two stop modes - "Emergency Stop" and "Emergency Off".  The first option, which is the default setting, stops all trains but leaves track power on.  In this mode you can change turnouts, if that is what is needed to correct the emergency.  The second option not only stops all trains but turns off track power as well.

 

I have tried using the "stop" mode and then changing a turnout.  But it doesn't work: I can select the turnout using F + 5, but the + and - buttons have no effect.  After a few seconds the LH100 handset appears to reset itself. However, once I revert to normal operation I can now control trains, but can no longer change turnouts -  the same thing happens as when in stop mode. I have to power-cycle the LZV100 to restore the function.

 

Does anyone know if this is a bug?

[Suzie]

The LZV100 sends a decoder reset packet when you restore power with the stop button. It might be worth trying a test to disconnect the track when restoring power with the stop button to skip the reset packet and see if this might be upsetting your decoders.

 

Also the LZV100 is rather prone to crashing requiring a power off to reset it for other reasons, so it would not surprise me if this is just another manifestation of that.

 

There can be situations when the command station stack becomes full with locos (can hold up to 200+ locos) and this can possible slow response to the extent it looks like it is not working. Resetting the stack might be worth a try to make the command station 'less busy'.

 

Suzie x

[RFS]

The LZV100 sends a decoder reset packet when you restore power with the stop button. It might be worth trying a test to disconnect the track when restoring power with the stop button to skip the reset packet and see if this might be upsetting your decoders.

 

Also the LZV100 is rather prone to crashing requiring a power off to reset it for other reasons, so it would not surprise me if this is just another manifestation of that.

 

There can be situations when the command station stack becomes full with locos (can hold up to 200+ locos) and this can possible slow response to the extent it looks like it is not working. Resetting the stack might be worth a try to make the command station 'less busy'.

 

Suzie x

Well I've tried a full reset of both the LH100 handset and the LZV100 command station and the problem persists.  So I've emailed Lenz to see if they know whether it's an issue.

 

Personally I've found the Lenz LZV100 system very reliable up till now ...

[PaulCheffus]

I have a Lenz LZV100 DCC system at the current 3.6 level.  There are two stop modes - "Emergency Stop" and "Emergency Off".  The first option, which is the default setting, stops all trains but leaves track power on.  In this mode you can change turnouts, if that is what is needed to correct the emergency.  The second option not only stops all trains but turns off track power as well.

 

I have tried using the "stop" mode and then changing a turnout.  But it doesn't work: I can select the turnout using F + 5, but the + and - buttons have no effect.  After a few seconds the LH100 handset appears to reset itself. However, once I revert to normal operation I can now control trains, but can no longer change turnouts -  the same thing happens as when in stop mode. I have to power-cycle the LZV100 to restore the function.

 

Does anyone know if this is a bug?

 

Hi

 

I've had this happen to me when using TouchCab but never with the LH100 handset. I use circuit breakers but it can still happen even with those and I supply the point decoders direct from the LVZ100 not via the circuit breakers.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[John K]

Silly question maybe, but why do you need to use emergency stop when you change the points?

The LH100 will happily leave a train running while you change a few points or you can use the keys to stop the train and then change the points.

John K

[RFS]

Silly question maybe, but why do you need to use emergency stop when you change the points?

The LH100 will happily leave a train running while you change a few points or you can use the keys to stop the train and then change the points.

John K

There's no problem with normal running.  The issue arises when a problem causes me to hit emergency stop, and I then need to change a point to correct the problem before restarting.  The Lenz manual is quite specific on how to do this, but it doesn't work. You can select the point but as soon as you press + or - the LH100 appears to reset itself. Thereafter you can't change points even when back into normal operation and a reboot of the LZV100 is required. Happens with any point address, even one that doesn't exist.

 

I currently have a PSX circuit breaker with the turnouts on a separate bus bypassing the PSX. Hence I've always been able to change points when there's a problem. But I also run RR&Co automation, and whilst the PSX prevents the LZV100 from shutting down it also leaves the automation software running which then can cause problems of its own.  So I'm looking at a hardware configuration where there is no PSX.

[melmerby]

There's no problem with normal running.  The issue arises when a problem causes me to hit emergency stop, and I then need to change a point to correct the problem before restarting.  The Lenz manual is quite specific on how to do this, but it doesn't work. You can select the point but as soon as you press + or - the LH100 appears to reset itself. Thereafter you can't change points even when back into normal operation and a reboot of the LZV100 is required. Happens with any point address, even one that doesn't exist.

 

I currently have a PSX circuit breaker with the turnouts on a separate bus bypassing the PSX. Hence I've always been able to change points when there's a problem. But I also run RR&Co automation, and whilst the PSX prevents the LZV100 from shutting down it also leaves the automation software running which then can cause problems of its own.  So I'm looking at a hardware configuration where there is no PSX.

Is this a fork from the questions on Freiwald Forum about multiple boosters and emergency stops/starts?

 

I have a similar setup with an NCE EB1 to the track but the points directly off the LZV100 and I am about to add some more boosters.

 

Cheers

Keith

[RFS]

Yes the discussion has caused me to think about my setup. I'm coming round to the view that having a circuit breaker with Traincontroller is not perhaps a good idea.  I have a PSX and have recently had some problems where a short occurred that caused the PSX to trip.  But because the LZV100 kept running so too did TC. When the issue was resolved, trains were not in the position TC thought they were, namely it thought they had now travelled through their current blocks and had reached their stop markers. But of course they hadn't, and as soon as I cleared the short TC started changing points under a couple of trains, causing a serious problem.

 

So I'm now running with the PSX wired out. If there's a short, the LZV100 trips and TC knows immediately. But now I can't change points in an emergency like before, but the LZV100 does have that function which I was trying to test and found it didn't work.

 

Can you try it on your system? Just press ST on your LH100, and the display should flash STOP. (If it flashes OFF then your LH100 is set up to cut track power when you press ST). In this mode track power is still on, so press ESC and then try to change a turnout with F + 5 etc. When I try this the turnout doesn't change, and when I return to normal I can no longer change turnouts and have to reboot the LZV100.

 

My thinking here was if I get a short and need to change a point, I can move the train back off the point, hit ST to clear OFF mode where track power is cut, then quickly hit ST again to put into STOP mode where track power is on so the point can be changed. Shouldn't be necessary in TC automatic scheduling mode but might happen if I'm running a train manually.

[RFS]

Just had an email back from Lenz saying it's going to be fixed in the next version - LZV200 + 4.0 firmware.  It's probably been planned for the last few years since 3.6 came out!

[melmerby]

Mine doesn't seem to behave quite like you describe.

If I press "St" Stop appears in the display.

Press "esc" go to F5 select a point and try to operate it. - zilch! Display changes to alternating "Off - F0" and "Stop"

(In fact the display changes after a couple of seconds even if you do nothing)

N.B. track power is on all the time but DCC packets must have stopped because the lights go out on a diesel loco on the track.

System has by then locked up and can't proceed without power-down.

 

Version 4.0 software has been promised since shortly after 3.6. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Keith

[RFS]

 

Version 4.0 software has been promised since shortly after 3.6. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Keith

I think it's for real this time.  The LZV200 is now out with a group of modellers in beta-test mode, and some German box-shifters are accepting pre-orders. So it should be here this year as Lenz have said.  Once it's here it means we can have fixes for future problems as you'll be able to update the firmware yourself at home.

[PaulCheffus]

I think it's for real this time.  The LZV200 is now out with a group of modellers in beta-test mode, and some German box-shifters are accepting pre-orders. So it should be here this year as Lenz have said.  Once it's here it means we can have fixes for future problems as you'll be able to update the firmware yourself at home.

Hi

 

Any idea if this firmware will be available for the LVZ100?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[melmerby]

I think it's for real this time.  The LZV200 is now out with a group of modellers in beta-test mode, and some German box-shifters are accepting pre-orders. So it should be here this year as Lenz have said.  Once it's here it means we can have fixes for future problems as you'll be able to update the firmware yourself at home.

 

Hi

 

Any idea if this firmware will be available for the LVZ100?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

IIRC when it was originally announced LVZ100s could be updated, by returning them to the factory, to Ver 4.0. Any further updates could be done in situ.

 

I haven't heard whether that will still apply. Or will Lenz expect everybody to upgrade to a LVZ200?

 

 

Keith

[RFS]

Hi

 

Any idea if this firmware will be available for the LVZ100?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

No - because you have no means of updating the firmware yourself.  To get release 4.0 you'll need to send your LZV100 (and I believe the LH100 handset) to Lenz where it will have its innards replaced and become an LZV200. Thereafter you'll be able to do all firmware updates yourself at home.

 

Don't know what the cost of the upgrade will be, but new LZV200s are being offered on pre-order for €260 (about £205 today).

[PaulCheffus]

No - because you have no means of updating the firmware yourself.  To get release 4.0 you'll need to send your LZV100 (and I believe the LH100 handset) to Lenz where it will have its innards replaced and become an LZV200. Thereafter you'll be able to do all firmware updates yourself at home.

 

Don't know what the cost of the upgrade will be, but new LZV200s are being offered on pre-order for €260 (about £205 today).

Hi

 

I didn't mean by myself sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[BoD]

Slightly OT but if you upgrade to an LZV200 is there any way that the LZV100 can be used as a booster rather than a command station?

[melmerby]

Slightly OT but if you upgrade to an LZV200 is there any way that the LZV100 can be used as a booster rather than a command station?

I'm sure I've seen a set up using a second LZV100 as a dumb booster.

Maybe just connect CDE to the first one as you would with a LV102?

 

This from the Lenz USA site:

"Using the LZV100 as a booster unit only is neither a recommended nor a supported application of the LZV100 by Lenz."

 

 

Keith

[PaulCheffus]

I'm sure I've seen a set up using a second LZV100 as a dumb booster.

Maybe just connect CDE to the first one as you would with a LV102?

 

This from the Lenz USA site:

"Using the LZV100 as a booster unit only is neither a recommended nor a supported application of the LZV100 by Lenz."

 

 

Keith

Hi

 

If I remember correctly the is a slight modification you can do to convert the lvz100 into a lv102 by disconnecting a ribbon cable internally as the booster part of the lvz100 is the lv102.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[BoD]

Thanks for that.

I guess that if you disconnect the ribbon cable some other way would be needed to make a physical connection to an external command station*. Possibly it won't either. It may be something to investigate further if need be.

 

* Why am picturing a James Bond type character snipping wires and hoping it doesn't go bang.

[RFS]

Might be easier/cheaper to Ebay the LZV100 and buy an LV102 instead. Just a thought!

[melmerby]

Thanks for that.

I guess that if you disconnect the ribbon cable some other way would be needed to make a physical connection to an external command station*. Possibly it won't either. It may be something to investigate further if need be.

 

* Why am picturing a James Bond type character snipping wires and hoping it doesn't go bang.

There is a comment on a Yahoo page about removing the ribbon to make it into a booster

 

Keith

[Suzie]

I think the modification is little more than unplug the internal ribbon cable in the LZV100 that 'piggy backs' the LZ100 command station bit on to the LV102 booster bit. The CDE connections then become the input from the command station rather than the output to the boosters.

[melmerby]

For information this is the description of the LZV200 on the Lenz USA site showing the differences between it and the LZV100:

 

http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/LZV200.html

 

And Lenz Germany site:

http://www.digital-plus.de/e/digitalplus-zentrale-lzv200.php

 

Keith

 

EDIT It is only about €35.00 more than a LZV100

[Mike Friedman]

RFS as you have probably gathered it seems to be a problem with v3.6 software.

 

I am using an LZV100 for the main track bus and this is connected to an LV101 that through a separate control bus controls all accessories (point motors and decoders, detection units and signal decoders). I never upgraded to 3.6 and the two throttles I have are an LH30 and an LH200, neither throttle can work accessory decoders so I have to change all points from the RR&co screen.

 

If I press the STOP button on either throttle the power to the track goes off (lights on any Pullman coaches go off), or indeed if I run into a wrongly set point the power to track goes off automatically. However from the RR&co screen I am still able to change points (and all signals stay illuminated).

 

You say you are unable to change points from the LH100 after an emergency power off but can you change them from the RR&co screen?

[RFS]

 

You say you are unable to change points from the LH100 after an emergency power off but can you change them from the RR&co screen?

 

 

No, I can't do it from RR&Co either.  When I hover over a turnout I just the black circle with a line through it, but as soon as I return the LZV100 to normal it works. To make a change via the LH100 you need to be in "emergency stop" mode (ie track power is on) rather then "emergency off" mode where track power is off.  Looks like I'll need to wait a bit ....