Inspired by Brent June 1947

[Siberian Snooper]

No but I should be able to arrange access to one

I would suggest that you use a slightly undersized drill ( by undersized I mean less than the i/d of the thread) with luck you should be able to unscrew the remains. A soak overnight in paraffin may also help, but I don't know what impact it may have on insulated drivers.

 

Be gentle with the drilling, you don't want the drill to start wandering.

[The Fatadder]

Thanks, I keep meaning to get to the club more regularly and this will be a good incentive to get there.

[The Fatadder]

The garage did cool enough to allow more work this afternoon, however it didn't result in much progress.

 

I started off by cracking out the Dremel and cutting the joints between the switch rails and knuckle rails on the down fiddle yard, before cutting the isolating gaps on the sleepers. The down fiddle yard is now ready for wiring up, which depending on the weather may happen this week. The added inconvenience of needing to shift a number of heavy boxes from under the layout did put me off fitting the tortoise, but this will now be done at the same time as the wiring (which also needs the boxes shifted). With a bit of luck (and some cooler weather!) this may happen later this week.

 

In preparation for the fiddle yard wiring I have cleared the fiddle yard of all locos, the plan was to do the same for the coaches but I don't have enough stock box capacity! instead when the soldering starts they will be transferred round in two very long trains (one for up and down) and stored on the scenic section.

 

With all the working locos put away, this left 5071 Spitfire as the only non running DCC fitted loco remaining. My preference is to always ensure everything is working before putting it away, so it was dismantled again and the powercab was fired up.

But it showed a short....

 

The next hour was spent trying to find the short, and identifying that the double slip had failed (again!) Eventually the short was traced to a short length of rail dropped across the up fiddleyard during yesterday's track building. The slip still needs repairs including yet another tie bar (as the copper has been striped off again). It is now time to try a different approach, I am thinking about adding brass pins on the inside of the switch rails to beef up the connection between rail and tie bar. The other option is to chop off the switch rails, solder a pin to one end and fit that in a hole as a pivot. Either way I really want to keep with one tie bar...

 

Short resolved it was onto Spitfire, the first task was to go for a decoder test. I keep a Vitrains Class 47 (a fully detailed RES example of 47768 which really needs to be replaced with my GWT 47813...) My plan was to remove the decoder from its harness and transfer it, do a full reset and see if it works. Upon putting the decoder into the Class 47 it worked perfectly, so much so I unplugged the 47s harness and pugged it straight into the Castle. It now worked perfectly! The only thing I can think of is that there must have been a short somewhere in the original wiring harness. Looking at the photo you can see the difference in green between the varnished tender and standard loco, I wish I had noticed this before putting the body back on as the loco does still need its windows masking and a coat of satin varnish.

 

 

This now leaves just three finished locos which are not running, 7250 and 6808 both of which just need a decoder fitting and 4547 which needs a decoder and number plates. Due to all of these being covered in the running fleet, their decoder purchases are not a priority. I think another batch of locos will be commissioned in January, hopefully including the County, Saint and 51xx (and if it arrives in time the Heljan 47xx...)

Edited August 28, 2017 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Having got most of the way through writing this last night (before losing it when the laptop crashed) time to try again…

 

I have been struggling to find the motivation to work on the layout, working on stock projects has been a lot more appealing recently. The problem is that there are 3 main tasks at the moment, none of which particularly appeal to me. These being fixing the Exeter end double slip (again), building the platforms and getting the fiddleyard working.

 

The slip needs a rethink, I am loathed to go down the route of separate tie bars (and the required second Tortoise motors). But it is starting to look that way. However before I get that drastic I have three potential solutions:

1) The first is to respace the sleeper alongside the tie bar to give a greater clearance. This will mean the tie bar with can be increased from circa 1.5mm to a full sleeper (the idea being that having a greater contact area fixing the switch rail to the tie bar will mean less chance of failure.

2) Separate the switch rails, solder to a brass pin so that the inner end acts as a pivot. My assumption is that this will mean there is less resistance to work against

3) Drill holes in the tie bar and fit an L shape length of brass rod soldered to both the tie bar and the switch rail.

 

The platform really is held up due to a lack of plastic sheet, I need more 40 thou and also a lot more embossed sheet. That said it would also benefit from drawing up the station building so that I can see the exact depth required in that area.

 

Finally the fiddle yard, at present only the up loops are wired (with no point motors wired up.)

The first evening was spent building the basic control panel for the left hand points. This was cut from some spare hardboard (sprayed white), fitted with DPDT switches which were then wired up.

Last night the next step was completed, wiring up this panel to connect with the point motors. (In turn this was followed by rewiring two of them which somehow were wired with the wrong polarity).

Tonight’s aim is to repeat step 1 for the other end of the layout, with tomorrow’s aim to wire it in.

This will just leave adding droppers to the down fiddleyard loops and connecting them up. At which point the down fiddleyard (and the down main can commence testing).

 

Once this is out the way, the other priority task is to return to the Avon scene. The bridge is now ready for installation, and the track in this area is fully tested. I need to get the terrain formed in the area either side of the river before the end of the month.

I will be attending the Pendon scenery workshop on November 4th, so I would like to have at least one area of the layout with the basic sub structure formed for the embankments etc. My logic is that once I get back from Pendon I need to put what I have learned straight into practice to ensure I don’t just forget it all!

[St Enodoc]

Having got most of the way through writing this last night (before losing it when the laptop crashed) time to try again…

 

I have been struggling to find the motivation to work on the layout, working on stock projects has been a lot more appealing recently. The problem is that there are 3 main tasks at the moment, none of which particularly appeal to me. These being fixing the Exeter end double slip (again), building the platforms and getting the fiddleyard working.

 

The slip needs a rethink, I am loathed to go down the route of separate tie bars (and the required second Tortoise motors). But it is starting to look that way. However before I get that drastic I have three potential solutions:

1) The first is to respace the sleeper alongside the tie bar to give a greater clearance. This will mean the tie bar with can be increased from circa 1.5mm to a full sleeper (the idea being that having a greater contact area fixing the switch rail to the tie bar will mean less chance of failure.

2) Separate the switch rails, solder to a brass pin so that the inner end acts as a pivot. My assumption is that this will mean there is less resistance to work against

3) Drill holes in the tie bar and fit an L shape length of brass rod soldered to both the tie bar and the switch rail.

 

The platform really is held up due to a lack of plastic sheet, I need more 40 thou and also a lot more embossed sheet. That said it would also benefit from drawing up the station building so that I can see the exact depth required in that area.

 

Finally the fiddle yard, at present only the up loops are wired (with no point motors wired up.)

The first evening was spent building the basic control panel for the left hand points. This was cut from some spare hardboard (sprayed white), fitted with DPDT switches which were then wired up.

Last night the next step was completed, wiring up this panel to connect with the point motors. (In turn this was followed by rewiring two of them which somehow were wired with the wrong polarity).

Tonight’s aim is to repeat step 1 for the other end of the layout, with tomorrow’s aim to wire it in.

This will just leave adding droppers to the down fiddleyard loops and connecting them up. At which point the down fiddleyard (and the down main can commence testing).

 

Once this is out the way, the other priority task is to return to the Avon scene. The bridge is now ready for installation, and the track in this area is fully tested. I need to get the terrain formed in the area either side of the river before the end of the month.

I will be attending the Pendon scenery workshop on November 4th, so I would like to have at least one area of the layout with the basic sub structure formed for the embankments etc. My logic is that once I get back from Pendon I need to put what I have learned straight into practice to ensure I don’t just forget it all!

Rich, you don't need extra motors - read back over my experiments and my decision to use an equalising bar to work both tiebars at the same end with a single motor. I would definitely use full-width tiebars, as I do for all my points. However, whichever way you go I think that pivots between the switch rails and the tiebars is very important for slips in particular. If this still doesn't work then try loose-heeled switches too but I found them too fiddly.

 

Good luck.

[Stephen Freeman]

I don't understand why loose-heeled switches would be found more difficult. It is important of course to ensure the minimum resistance when trying to move slip point blades, especially double slip ones as there are not only twice the number but also the two sets are usually trying to move in sllghtly different planes.

 

The best way I find is to use two tiebars (stretcher bars if you wish) and join them together but it is also important to allow a bit of flexibility in them. Supplemental stretcher bars are also useful in taking some of the strain off and are of course prototypical.

[The Fatadder]

What do you mean when you say a pivot between switch and tie bar?

 

I did look at your construction linking the two tiebar, I have a sleeper in between where the two tie bars would be which would obstruct

[St Enodoc]

I don't understand why loose-heeled switches would be found more difficult. It is important of course to ensure the minimum resistance when trying to move slip point blades, especially double slip ones as there are not only twice the number but also the two sets are usually trying to move in sllghtly different planes.

 

The best way I find is to use two tiebars (stretcher bars if you wish) and join them together but it is also important to allow a bit of flexibility in them. Supplemental stretcher bars are also useful in taking some of the strain off and are of course prototypical.

Stephen, I found it a real faff trying to line up the two parts of the loose heel and also make the electrical connection. In the end i stayed with flexible switches. It's probably just me.

 

I use two tiebars/stretchers which are connected with what I call an equalising lever. This lets the tiebars move with a non-parallel motion:

 

 

As long as there is enough play or slop in the various pin joints they seem to work OK.

[St Enodoc]

What do you mean when you say a pivot between switch and tie bar?

 

I did look at your construction linking the two tiebar, I have a sleeper in between where the two tie bars would be which would obstruct

Rich, see my reply to Stephen above. I mean the pins that connect the switches to the tiebars. See also:

 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

So if I’m reading rightly the brass pin through the tiebar is not soldered or glued in place, only soldered to the rail!

Thus allowing a small amount of rotation (unlike mine where it is soldered into position)

[Siberian Snooper]

So if I’m reading rightly the brass pin through the tiebar is not soldered or glued in place, only soldered to the rail!

Thus allowing a small amount of rotation (unlike mine where it is soldered into position)

That is correct, this takes the rigidity out of the joints. I use square section tube to form a tiebar under the baseboard, with brass tube that comes up to just under the timbering and brass wire through the tube and soldered to the switch blades. Same sort of thing as the above post. This was something I gleaned from the MORILL a long time ago.

[The Fatadder]

Day 2 and the plan has already fallen apart,

Turns out I never got round to fitting motors to the right hand 3 points on the down yard. The reason being that there is a very large box in the way under the layout m, which requires half the garage removing in order to get it out. Certainly a job that needs more than the hour I had available.

 

The panel itself has been drilled and fitted with switches (including modifications to the plywood baseboard deck to clear one switch). The connections now need joining up (tomorrow).

 

I then moved back to the easier left hand side to add dropper feeds to all of the down fiddle yard points / the first yard of track. Again tomorrow the intention is to join these up to the rest of the layout (along with the Tortoise polarity switches)

 

The right hand side will likely now have to wait for the weekend, in the meantime I want to solder on the track feeds so that all under baseboard jobs can be completed in one go.

[St Enodoc]

So if I’m reading rightly the brass pin through the tiebar is not soldered or glued in place, only soldered to the rail!

Thus allowing a small amount of rotation (unlike mine where it is soldered into position)

That's right Rich. It's one of the reasons I made the tiebars of wood, to eliminate the risk of soldering them up solid.

[St Enodoc]

That is correct, this takes the rigidity out of the joints. I use square section tube to form a tiebar under the baseboard, with brass tube that comes up to just under the timbering and brass wire through the tube and soldered to the switch blades. Same sort of thing as the above post. This was something I gleaned from the MORILL a long time ago.

My method is not original. It was described by Norman Solomon in MRJ many years ago.

[Mulgabill]

Many years ago I tried scratchbuilding track, but for various reasons never got as far as an operable layout. At the time there ware available glass fibre tiebars for points.

The idea being that they were more flexible than copper-clad "sleeper" tiebars.

 

My absence from modelling for a long period means I don't know whether these are still available, or indeed considered any good, these days.

 

However should you wish to try them, I do have a few (4 or 5) and they are only just up the road.

 

Good to see you are back in action!

[Siberian Snooper]

Many years ago I tried scratchbuilding track, but for various reasons never got as far as an operable layout. At the time there ware available glass fibre tiebars for points.

The idea being that they were more flexible than copper-clad "sleeper" tiebars.

 

My absence from modelling for a long period means I don't know whether these are still available, or indeed considered any good, these days.

 

However should you wish to try them, I do have a few (4 or 5) and they are only just up the road.

 

Good to see you are back in action!

 

 

I think you can still get them from SMP/Scaleway, sorry unable to post a link at this time.

[St Enodoc]

I think you can still get them from SMP/Scaleway, sorry unable to post a link at this time.

Yes you can:

 

http://www.marcway.net/list3.php?col=head&name=ACCESSORIES+%26+MATERIALS

 

I've tried them but decided not to use them as they are a bit bulky and I found it awkward soldering the rails to the eyelets. Others may have had more success.

[The Fatadder]

Thanks again for all the slip advice, not sure if I will manage to work on it at the weekend but I hope to.

 

Last night only saw the basic switch wiring for the second control panel completed, tonight the plan is to finally get on with the under baseboard work..

[The Fatadder]

Very pleased with the progress so far this week, the point motors are all now installed, wired and tested.  All the rest of the track feeds have been soldered into place, so all that remains is to connect the dropper wires to the track bus and the down fiddleyard will be ready for testing.

 

Then it is time to make a start on fixing the slip.  I have some plywood sleeper strip and some 1mm brass rod ready to go, so it will be interesting to see how well the fix works...

[The Fatadder]

Fiddleyard wiring is now fully complete (at last!). My plan this evening is to start testing the down yard and run a basic service in both directions.

 

Assuming no modifications are required, it’s then time to get on with the next project: getting that double slip working...

[The Fatadder]

So the testing was completed this morning, the fiddle yard points seem to be working perfectly, however issues seem to have occurred elsewhere. First up 6971 was unresponsive and see,s to have a dead decoder (strange as it was fine when it was put away before we went on holiday)

 

The bigger issue was with the single slip, the king I was using for the test continued to go straight through the slip road with points set for the main. Checks so far showed the clearance between switch rail and outer rail was too tigh so this was corrected, but it still goes straight on...

 

Back to back on the king seems ok, so I’m a little lost.

 

 

Seriously starting to think the soloution here is going to be scrapping all 3 slips and commissioning replacements (at a cost of the modelling budget for the foreseeable)

[Stephen Freeman]

So the testing was completed this morning, the fiddle yard points seem to be working perfectly, however issues seem to have occurred elsewhere. First up 6971 was unresponsive and see,s to have a dead decoder (strange as it was fine when it was put away before we went on holiday)

 

The bigger issue was with the single slip, the king I was using for the test continued to go straight through the slip road with points set for the main. Checks so far showed the clearance between switch rail and outer rail was too tigh so this was corrected, but it still goes straight on...

 

Back to back on the king seems ok, so I’m a little lost.

 

 

Seriously starting to think the soloution here is going to be scrapping all 3 slips and commissioning replacements (at a cost of the modelling budget for the foreseeable)

One thing to check is the back of flange to front of opposite flange, different flange widths can cause problems. As to cost it all depends on whether the existing slips can be removed to be worked on, off the layout. If they can, it should be less expensive than having brand new ones built on a commission basis but of course it does depend on what needs to be done. Worst case scenario is that it could cost you around £700 for all three on a commission basis. Maybe more of course, just depends on whose doing it.

[The Fatadder]

One thing to check is the back of flange to front of opposite flange, different flange widths can cause problems. As to cost it all depends on whether the existing slips can be removed to be worked on, off the layout. If they can, it should be less expensive than having brand new ones built on a commission basis but of course it does depend on what needs to be done. Worst case scenario is that it could cost you around £700 for all three on a commission basis. Maybe more of course, just depends on whose doing it.

Thanks for the advice

 

I will take the micrometer out tomorrow and measure the flanges, I will also give it a test with a different king (and crack out a castle while I’m at it) and see if the problem is more widespread.

 

I will keep that projected cost in mind, and try to keep it aside just in case. Though having sat on the issue for a while, I would much prefer to keep the layout my own work. My current thought is to leave it as is for the moment (possibly with a bodge to lock the slip road out of use). I will then work on building a full replacement from scratch off board. It will require buying more rail and sleepers, which now I don’t have C&L down the road will take some time....

[The Fatadder]

Finally fixed the single slip, it turned out the gauge had widened and was easy to sort out.

 

After testing showed up another issue with the first fiddle yard point on a curve just after the lifting section, derailments occurring due to the flange striking the switch blade, after checking gauge and the 20p test, I resolved the issue by adding a short check rail to ensure the wheels were caught by the switch blade.

 

At this point I started to wonder why I hadn’t found these issues in prior testing, and set the King off with some Hornby coaches which completed a few laps satisfactory. I then went to set a loco running on the up and realised the king was running wrong road! Swapped over and coupled to a down Cornish Reveria Express set of Centrnarys and opened up the regulator, thankfully it worked very well at speed. At which point I set the Grange running with an up freight and left both locos to get a good run.

 

The speed has rather blurred the below photo, but it’s a real milestone getting two locos running simultaneously. I need to rest more locos through the yard now to prove no further issues, repair one point in the up yard that’s started causing derailments.

Edited October 8, 2017 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Only time for some minor work this evening, getting another minor issue resolved with a point and doing some more checks on the slip. While I still haven’t fixed the broken tie bar, I do know the cause of the running issues, as per the single slip in the area around the slide chairs espically at the point of the switch, the gauge is too wide.

 

Other than that the time was spent playing trains and testing the different routes through the fiddle yard at speed, there remains one more point which needs modification to take some more metal off the switch boss.

 

I then planned to test a 2-8-0, but for some reason 4292 has stopped working, that’s now two locos which worked perfectly before I went to florida which have now become completely unresponsive since I got back. At least with the modified hall it’s a 8pin harness and removing the chip for testing is easy, with the 42xx it’s hard wired....

I am going to have to do a full strip down and do some testing, I keep having these issues with decoders randomly ‘dieing’ and then coming back to life once reset on a different system. It is starting to make me wonder if I have an issue with the controller, (it definitely has some issues with the display issue I’ve mentioned previously).

Edited October 18, 2017 by The Fatadder