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9 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Pausing from the Riviera work, I have made a start on finishing a Diagram O41 duplex milk tank.  
 

I only have the instructions and one photo on the Steam website to work from.  The basic chassis and tanks were built by the previous owner (including melting a hole in one end casting!) 

 

I have assembled the tank mounts, the reinforcing plate, solebars and headstocks (along with soldering the tanks into position.)

 

it now needs the strapping adding along with the supporting rods, end brackets and the castings.

 

one area I am a little unsure of is between the tanks.  On the prototype it looks like there is a beam between the two tanks but this is missing on my kit.  (It also appears to be omitted from the instructions). I assume this is an error, and would welcome any other sources of photo (there is nothing in Russell appendix vo2).  I also have no idea on livery other than as built.  (As per my other topic...)

Certainly looks like it on the two photos in Larkin's BR General Parcels Rolling Stock (page 50). One is of W2557, diagram O41, and the other is of W2932, no diagram stated, with lever brakes. Both have a timber beam between the tanks supported by vertical ironwork. The beam looks to be about twice as thick as the ones at the ends.

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6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Certainly looks like it on the two photos in Larkin's BR General Parcels Rolling Stock (page 50). One is of W2557, diagram O41, and the other is of W2932, no diagram stated, with lever brakes. Both have a timber beam between the tanks supported by vertical ironwork. The beam looks to be about twice as thick as the ones at the ends.

 I phone a 1970 photo by John Turner on Flickr which appears to show the same 

 

I am assuming this is square ended with an elliptical cut out matching the curve of the ends.  I have a rough idea how I could do to, but comparing with the photos there seems to be quite a few

differences between the kit and the prototype photos.  Assuming if actually is an O41 that the kit makes not another similar diagram.

 Both photos have

6 bolsters rather than the 4 in the kit, while I can’t see the raised reinforcing strip around the base of the tank supports.  (And of course the missing support between the two tanks).  The latter must be an error to stop lateral movement of the tanks (what’s the point of the bars at the end if the tanks can move towards the centre)


I have carried on with the rest of the kit while I think about it some more, and look at how I will fix the missing piece...

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The state of the build this morning (with couplings soldered in place and after a scrub in Jif the  wheels added)

 CB9CDFB8-3DA9-4AA8-AEF1-1D8790843B1F.jpeg.34d73a80ae52a2477c41c492fd9139c1.jpeg
 

Castings are included for some of the roof detail (filler caps and an air vent) along with axleboxes / springs.

 

I have included two crops from a photo in a pre war magazine article for research purposes (it’s the same ex works image on the steam website)

F54CDCC5-5704-4A91-944E-0DD7BE4B04CB.jpeg.f2491fc478ccbfada623063976e6a1a6.jpeg
the 4 items in yellow are all missing, the two valves will be made from

brass rod, while the lifting eyes on the end I think I can possibly make from a 1990s lifting eye etch

 

0CC3CC68-8D39-411F-A11B-0437AE167292.jpeg.09cd2252e48962c5621a62fe3865be2d.jpeg

a crop of the missing part

 

my assumption is that it looks something like this from above

D84C4533-37DF-4557-919E-0C7CACED2631.jpeg.d6b025963c2ba240737057b4a63de431.jpeg
In theory it can be made off model (as a unit with the support brackets) and slid into place onto the model.

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45 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

The state of the build this morning (with couplings soldered in place and after a scrub in Jif the  wheels added)

 CB9CDFB8-3DA9-4AA8-AEF1-1D8790843B1F.jpeg.34d73a80ae52a2477c41c492fd9139c1.jpeg
 

Castings are included for some of the roof detail (filler caps and an air vent) along with axleboxes / springs.

 

I have included two crops from a photo in a pre war magazine article for research purposes (it’s the same ex works image on the steam website)

F54CDCC5-5704-4A91-944E-0DD7BE4B04CB.jpeg.f2491fc478ccbfada623063976e6a1a6.jpeg
the 4 items in yellow are all missing, the two valves will be made from

brass rod, while the lifting eyes on the end I think I can possibly make from a 1990s lifting eye etch

 

0CC3CC68-8D39-411F-A11B-0437AE167292.jpeg.09cd2252e48962c5621a62fe3865be2d.jpeg

a crop of the missing part

 

my assumption is that it looks something like this from above

D84C4533-37DF-4557-919E-0C7CACED2631.jpeg.d6b025963c2ba240737057b4a63de431.jpeg
In theory it can be made off model (as a unit with the support brackets) and slid into place onto the model.

That's pretty much the same as the two in Larkin.

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9 minutes ago, No46 said:

Morning. Yes this is the same sort of picture I have from the Russell wagons Appendix.

Never thought of looking there! What a silly bunt.

 

The original GW Wagons book also has one picture of W2935 from the later diagram with lever brakes on page 89. The text notes "Strictly speaking these vehicles come under the passenger classification, but being made in the wagon shops, they are shown here".

Edited by St Enodoc
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Thanks , rather embarisingly I don’t actually have a copy of the Russell wagons appendix book (though it’s very odd the photo is in there rather than appendix 2 of the coach books.


looks like the kit is wrong in a few areas (the 2 missing tank supports and the additional reinforcement framing between the supports.). Unless it’s not actually a diagram O41 ( it doesn’t actually state as such on the instructions.). The supplied tank supports are thin metal (double layer of brass) where as the prototype looks to have wooden supports, I wonder if this is an error or a prototype variation.

 

 

I have done some more work sitting in the sun this afternoon, adding the castings along with the additional support beam.  
 

I now just need to add the lifting eyes, remaining vents to the tank top and the wire between the supports and chassis.  

 

69EE07B2-C444-4D21-BDE2-48BEA91BE4EC.jpeg

C3ECB53B-09FE-4F82-9F22-A1FB6E07DDDF.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

 

milktank.jpg.8139b68c4f634e95f84c4dd546df3b5f.jpg

Here is a photo of a Slaters 7mm scale one I built years ago don't know if that helps much though. Yours looks quite a bit different to my eyes.There aren't any other photos of twin tanks in Russells book mentioned previously.

Edited by Stephen Freeman
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Thanks for the photo, who did you get the transfers from?  I’d like to get some in 4mm scale to finish this off but so far no luck.

 

The wagon is now finished, bar the fitting of the loading instructions plaque for one side ( this is etched with the writing, but on one side it was badly under etched (so just soldered into position) the other will be glued in place after painting)


9494A914-9276-46D1-A88E-19CC03A05F98.jpeg.25ec6ebbb17b5e8d8d9e371d7fc358a9.jpeg

 

it will get a coat of etch primer this evening, before spraying the tanks Royal Mail red in the week (I’m off Tuesday and Friday and want to spray my modern TPO so it makes sense to use the paint while it’s out) 

 

So for now that’s it on the milk, until this is painted or I buy a suitable full brake kit to finish the rake.

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4 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Thanks for the photo, who did you get the transfers from?  I’d like to get some in 4mm scale to finish this off but so far no luck.

 

The wagon is now finished, bar the fitting of the loading instructions plaque for one side ( this is etched with the writing, but on one side it was badly under etched (so just soldered into position) the other will be glued in place after painting)


9494A914-9276-46D1-A88E-19CC03A05F98.jpeg.25ec6ebbb17b5e8d8d9e371d7fc358a9.jpeg

 

it will get a coat of etch primer this evening, before spraying the tanks Royal Mail red in the week (I’m off Tuesday and Friday and want to spray my modern TPO so it makes sense to use the paint while it’s out) 

 

So for now that’s it on the milk, until this is painted or I buy a suitable full brake kit to finish the rake.

Rich, those vents(?) on top are way too big. The ones on Stephen's 7mm kit are much closer to what's in the photos. In the absence of anything else I'd try a couple of GWR short loco whistles in their place.

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A good point, though given how many things with the lower half of the wagon differ from photos I am still unsure if the photo and model are the same prototype (or if the kit was just a bit rubbish)

 

looking at other milk tanks in comparison the vents are way too big so I will chop them off tomorrow and see what I can replace with. 

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A little final progress on the O41 milk tank, this evening the model has been painted (Vallejo 70.909 Vermillion (RAL3020) for the red and 70.862 Black Grey for the underframe.) 

 

I am still searching for some transfers, but have drawn up a rough draft of my own design just in case, at the moment it is in Powerpoint and no use to anyone.  So should I be unsuccessful in finding a source via the trade I will redraw and hope that Railtec can print them for me.  Naturally this means doing all of the design work myself (both to save cost and time), so will see how I get on.   Given the limitations of the kit I am really pleased with how this has come out, I now really want the rotanks to finish off the set, just need a drawing….

4924FADC-C002-4FB8-BBFB-898D0033F67D.jpeg.9345a5dcfc371acb59528c98c7e80064.jpeg

 

What I really need now is a demonstration as to how to heavily weather a milk tank in a realistic fashion….. Looking at some photos of the prototype you can hardly make out the livery through the muck (much like they were in the late 60s, which is proving the most fruitful source of colour photos to work from).  It does leave me wondering if I could forgo the London Co-operative branding completely and just have a hint of the underlying red showing through the muck.    The rake will be a 50:50 split of tanks in prewar liveries and those painted more recently, (having seen both silver and MMB Blue mentioned as liveries).

 

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Not sure if you've seen them, but I've just found 2 photos of these 

twin-tank wagons, W2557 and W2932, taken in Carmarthen, 1970.

 

BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey

David Larkin, ISBN 0 85153 320 5

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37 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Not sure if you've seen them, but I've just found 2 photos of these 

twin-tank wagons, W2557 and W2932, taken in Carmarthen, 1970.

 

BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey

David Larkin, ISBN 0 85153 320 5


not a book in my library unfortunately, can you confirm that there are six tank supports in these photos please?  (as per the slaters kit and the photos in no46s post above)

 

ive been teaching myself Inkscape to make a go at transfers, and come up with the below.  I will now print it off and compare against the model before looking into getting it printed. 
the grey background on the hopper transfer is just so you can see the white (the grey is the size of the plate the transfer will fit on). The other lettering is gold with black edging. 
C5D826B8-653A-4FDD-93F1-00FB94F07A56.jpeg.4f8f22a58b7a11282449e051981118cc.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:


not a book in my library unfortunately, can you confirm that there are six tank supports in these photos please?  (as per the slaters kit and the photos in no46s post above)

 

ive been teaching myself Inkscape to make a go at transfers, and come up with the below.  I will now print it off and compare against the model before looking into getting it printed. 
the grey background on the hopper transfer is just so you can see the white (the grey is the size of the plate the transfer will fit on). The other lettering is gold with black edging. 
C5D826B8-653A-4FDD-93F1-00FB94F07A56.jpeg.4f8f22a58b7a11282449e051981118cc.jpeg

 

Yes, I would say Slaters have got it right, 6 tank supports,

but the tank lifting eyes are a bit on the small size.

With respect to yours, the pictures suggest you have built a hybrid,

the tanks with lifting eyes, have Churchward brakes

whereas the tanks without lifting eyes, are fitted with 'normal' brakes,

and the right hand ladder modified to clear the lever.

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Thanks for looking

 

 

I must get lifting eyes added.  Looks like the kit was just plane wrong when it came to the tank saddles, though at least the ladders hide to to some degree 

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A slight adjustment is needed to the white lettering, but the gold fits nicely.  Now to try and get them printed so I can finish it off.  
 

as I am now thinking about doing the rotank, I may well hold fire on getting the transfers printed given I will need to get the rotank done at the same time 

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On 09/05/2020 at 14:15, County of Yorkshire said:

 

Has this actually been verified? It was mooted around a year ago but there's been deathly silence on the matter since.

 

If it's true i'd be delighted as I've wanted some for years.

 

CoY

It's true. They've already released most of the wagons. I've played a small part towards getting the GWR coaches back into production. My last conversation with David White revealed that time was the biggest obstruction to getting these out again. But patience will yield its reward. They are coming....eventually.

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I had planned to use my modelling time today to do some spraying of my 1998, but plans changed and instead I have fittednew couplings to the rest of my milk train.  I also found that Dapol released their model in MMB blue with 1940s lettering, I want to get one of these to replace one of the horrid weathering examples. In turn this will donate a chassis to go under the rotank 

482501E3-2C14-4AC2-A2EB-40B4BEC8832B.jpeg.668b6e8d73bd72925d7bef40f96ae71f.jpeg
 

it really is rather pleasant sitting outside working on models

 

Nice to see a RAF 400m flying over, not seen once since I finished working at Airbus in SevillaAF79910E-31BE-4018-B1C3-2D574227E1F3.jpeg.8c25844c85e7a60499f17319dc1ebbbb.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Denbridge said:

It's true. They've already released most of the wagons. I've played a small part towards getting the GWR coaches back into production. My last conversation with David White revealed that time was the biggest obstruction to getting these out again. But patience will yield its reward. They are coming....eventually.

 

Excellent news - thanks Denbridge. 

 

Better get saving!

 

CoY

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With the milk tanks now fitted with couplings, it’s back to the Cornish Riviera rake. 
 

The A20 large window brake needed some basic work to finish off the transfers, adding numbers and the first brandings.  At this point attention turned to the interior for which I needed to borrow the plastic base from my unbuilt A22 kit.  I have always intended to run this with the corridor facing the viewer, as I think this side looks more interesting than the compartment side. 
 

while looking for the plastic in the box I noticed that the compartment side of the A20 and A22 is very similar.  So I have lined out the other side of the coach, added transfers and this will now be the visible side while the A20 is filling in for the A22.  
 

now it’s back to work fitting couplings. 

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Probably not much help but there is a close up of the 041 milk tank showing the details of the strap tensioning studs, centre tank mounts, valves and filler clamps etc on p97 of Martyn Welch's book The art of weathering.

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