What colour for mk2 coach gangway end doors?

[ess1uk]

On mk2 coaches what colour should the end doors be?

For blue grey stock is it red?

On NSE stock it looks light green?

Does the colour mean anything?

Is it different between mk2a and mk2b?

 

Thanks for the help.

[giz]

Mk 2a were green; 2b, 2c and 2d were red and 2e and 2f were fawn.

 

However, I've seen somewhere on RMWeb that some late 2a were also red.

[keefer]

Was it not the Mk 2a FK & BFK that had the red doors and TSO & BSO had green?

I think it was reported in many books over the years that ALL Mk 2a had green doors

[giz]

Was it not the Mk 2a FK & BFK that had the red doors and TSO & BSO had green?

I think it was reported in many books over the years that ALL Mk 2a had green doors

Could be. There is a thread somwhere discussing it. The Platform 5 books from the 80s and 90s I have say all Mk2a were green but that seems not to be correct.

[robertcwp]

Mark 2a green on second class, bright orange/red on first class. Any book that states otherwise is wrong. Bachmann got their Mark 2a firsts wrong at least on the first batch.

Mark 2b/c/d bright orange/red.

Mark 2e/f putty colour.

 

Above listed as built. Many appeared to remain thus.

[tiger]

I think some early build Mk 2e BSO were the same orangey-red as Mk 2b/c/d.

 

The original early mark 2 coaches have not been mentioned (sometimes referred to as Mk 2z). They had solid sliding end doors like those fitted to Mk 1s (by which I mean single-leaf doors with no rectangular windows), which were I think painted off-white.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

Edited May 17, 2016 by tiger

[ess1uk]

so in the picture below , apart from the Hornby on the right, they are ok?

left to right

Lima

Lima

Bachmann

Hornby

 

thanks for the help.

[giz]

so in the picture below , apart from the Hornby on the right, they are ok?

IMG_0708.JPG

left to right

Lima

Lima

Bachmann

Hornby

 

thanks for the help.

Your Lima are 2b so should be red (Lima also did a 2f).

The Bachmann is a 2a so should be green if second class, red if first. Bachmann also do an early 2 but it correctly doesn't have folding doors.

That Hornby is an early 2 (if numbered correctly) so no folding doors.

Edited May 18, 2016 by giz

[ess1uk]

Your Lima are 2b so should be red (Lima also did a 2f).

The Bachmann is a 2a so should be green if second class, red if first. Bachmann also do an early 2 but it correctly doesn't have folding doors.

That Hornby is an early 2 (if numbered correctly) so no folding doors.

The Bachmann is a 2a BFK numbered 17079

the Hornby is numbered as 17086 which is also a 2a BFK number. The end looks like a 2z?

Edited December 22, 2016 by ess1uk

[giz]

The Bachmann is a 2a BFK numbered 17079

the Hornby is numbered as 17086 which is also a 2a BFK

IMG_0702.JPG

In that case they should all be red and the Hornby coach would need the connectors modifying if you are concerned (and it runs at the end of a train).

 

I don't know if you've noticed but the roof vents on the Bachmann BFK are wrong, they've used the same layout as their BSO. They should be in line over the compartments as per the Hornby coach.

Edited May 18, 2016 by giz

[Talltim]

Its matches the interior colour of the vestibules, when the doors are opened with the coaches coupled the outside face becomes part of the wall of the vestibule.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Talltim

[ess1uk]

I'm running 3 TSO, 2 BFK, 3 TSO.

No rush to get the red paint out but will do it any way.

 

Thanks everyone

[robertcwp]

I think some early build Mk 2e BSO were the same orangey-red as Mk 2b/c/d.

The original early mark 2 coaches have not been mentioned (sometimes referred to as Mk 2z). They had solid sliding end doors like those fitted to Mk 1s (by which I mean single-leaf doors with no rectangular windows), which were I think painted off-white.

Cheers

Tom

You could well be correct. I haven't seen firm evidence to confirm but have seen it mentioned. There were only 14 2e BSOs all in one lot so unless all were like it I wonder if Derby was using up stock of red ones on the first few.

[tiger]

You could well be correct. I haven't seen firm evidence to confirm but have seen it mentioned. There were only 14 2e BSOs all in one lot so unless all were like it I wonder if Derby was using up stock of red ones on the first few.

 

 

I can't say for sure about all 14 2e BSOs in the lot. However in June 1996 I travelled from Preston to Edinburgh in a newly-refurbished InterCity Cross Country Mk 2f rake. The rake was ex-works in IC swallow livery, but all of the TSOs and the RFB had the new green moquette that became standard for Cross-Country LHCS and HST rakes, that was then adopted by Virgin Cross Country in 1997 when the franchise was privatised. A number of platform staff were checking out the new interior finish prior to departure. I seated myself in one of the TSOs for the first few minutes but then went to explore the train and found that the leading BSO was not only unrefurbished, but was a Mk 2e complete with the 1980s blue check moquette that had largely been replaced by grey in most Mk 2d and 2e by that date. The 2e BSO had orange vestibule panelling on the inside of the external doors and also the gangway doors. (It was definitely a 2e not a 2d as it had the small toilet, and central heavy spring-loaded sliding door with window between the saloon and the vestibule, plus wood veneer saloon panelling.) This was the last time I saw a Mk 2 in front line service with this interior.

 

Here's a thought - is it possible that the carriage doors with deep droplight windows (standard on Mk 2d when new and some 2e) had orange panelling inside, and the shallow droplight doors (most 2e and all 2f) had the fawn/putty colour?

 

Sometimes I wonder how I can possibly remember such ridiculous trivial details so clearly, 20 years later!

 

Cheers

 

Tom.

[keefer]

The wood panelling in the saloon sounds like a 2d feature too - it sounds like these initial 2e coaches were using up the last of the 2d internal parts?

[mark54]

I remember seeing on more than one occasion a Mk2e BSO with orange vestibule, rather than the usual putty colour. This was around 1979 at St Pancras in a Sheffield set. When I got the chance, I made a mental note of the coach number to check in a Coaching Stock pocket book, when I got home, to make sure that it wasn't a Mk2d. It may have been M9497 because it wasn't the first in the Mk2e batch, but it is a long time ago now! My recollection is that there was no wood panelling to the outside of the toilet compartment, so the whole vestibule was orange - again it was a long time ago though.

[robertcwp]

The wood panelling in the saloon sounds like a 2d feature too - it sounds like these initial 2e coaches were using up the last of the 2d internal parts?

Wasn't that standard on 2e stock?

[robertcwp]

I can't say for sure about all 14 2e BSOs in the lot. However in June 1996 I travelled from Preston to Edinburgh in a newly-refurbished InterCity Cross Country Mk 2f rake. The rake was ex-works in IC swallow livery, but all of the TSOs and the RFB had the new green moquette that became standard for Cross-Country LHCS and HST rakes, that was then adopted by Virgin Cross Country in 1997 when the franchise was privatised. A number of platform staff were checking out the new interior finish prior to departure. I seated myself in one of the TSOs for the first few minutes but then went to explore the train and found that the leading BSO was not only unrefurbished, but was a Mk 2e complete with the 1980s blue check moquette that had largely been replaced by grey in most Mk 2d and 2e by that date. The 2e BSO had orange vestibule panelling on the inside of the external doors and also the gangway doors. (It was definitely a 2e not a 2d as it had the small toilet, and central heavy spring-loaded sliding door with window between the saloon and the vestibule, plus wood veneer saloon panelling.) This was the last time I saw a Mk 2 in front line service with this interior.

 

Here's a thought - is it possible that the carriage doors with deep droplight windows (standard on Mk 2d when new and some 2e) had orange panelling inside, and the shallow droplight doors (most 2e and all 2f) had the fawn/putty colour?

 

Sometimes I wonder how I can possibly remember such ridiculous trivial details so clearly, 20 years later!

 

Cheers

 

Tom.

The first 75 2e (61 TSO and 14 BSO) were I believe planned originally to be 2d, so not beyond the bounds of possibility.

[keefer]

Wasn't that standard on 2e stock?

 

sorry Robert. missed your reply

 

I had thought that the mk2e was the first to have plastic panelling in the saloons, but it seems i was thinking of the 2f

[tiger]

In later life (post privatisation era) some of the remaining Mk 2e got the interior plastic panelling - a few with Anglia come to mind. These 2e TSO were virtually indistinguishable internally from the refurbished 2f with wing headrests which remained with Anglia. Not sure what happened to the 2d which went to fGW or if any Mk2e remained with Virgin Cross Country, and whether they also received the plastic panelling.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

Edited June 15, 2016 by tiger

[Shed]

interesting thread this

[ess1uk]

What colour interiors should blue and grey 2b TSOs have?

Not that you can see much of them but I'd like to try and paint the inside of my Lima coaches.

[leopardml2341]

What colour interiors should blue and grey 2b TSOs have?

Not that you can see much of them but I'd like to try and paint the inside of my Lima coaches.

Google came up with this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67418519@N00/galleries/72157659494365532/

 

Amongst others.....

Edited February 26, 2017 by leopardml2341

[ess1uk]

Google came up with this:https://www.flickr.com/photos/67418519@N00/galleries/72157659494365532/

Amongst others.....

Thanks.

I had a feeling it was blue, wanted to make sure I was looking at the right type.

[tiger]

Thanks.

I had a feeling it was blue, wanted to make sure I was looking at the right type.

Looking at the pictures linked above, some of the TSOs have individual reading lights on the underside of the luggage rack (of the type more normally seen just in first class these days), and some don't. We're these fitted to all Mk 2 PVs consistently when built and then removed later when refurbished, or were they not fitted to all Mk 2 PVs when built? In which case, which submarks had them and which didn't.

 

Looking at the pictures the Mk2a and 2b TSO (pics 1 and 3) have the reading lights, but the two refurbs with NSE moquette and plastic wall panelling instead of timber (pic 2, and pic 4 with APT seats) do not. Maybe the refurbs are both "Mk2z" / early mark 2?

 

Cheers

 

Tom.