coachmann's 4mm loco & coach W.B.

[Hal Nail]

Really. 1442 in Tiverton Museum: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crayzy_ray/4478924203

 

And 1450: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/18488875416

 

I think the last few posts are demonstrating that a bit of rule 1 needs to come in to play!

[3 link]

Really. 1442 in Tiverton Museum: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crayzy_ray/4478924203

 

And 1450: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/18488875416

Hi Kev,

 

These facts have a habit of only coming to light once you have completed the model....

 

Martyn.

[Marshall5]

 

 

 

Someone said I should fit screw reverse. Really....?

 

WEB 14XX 13.jpg

 

That would have been me Larry.  I think you may have a photo there that has been misidentified as I'm certain that all 14xx had screw reverse.  I even think that I've seen that photo before and it was of 1369. 14xx don't have a tip up seat there but do have a bell and cab shutter which this doesn't have.

Hal, Peto is only partly correct with 1458 as it changed from top feed to non top feed between 1961 and 1963 but doesn't appear to have been repainted at that overhaul retaining its old crest.

Ray.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Marshall5

[Marshall5]

I just might have a top feed and pipework for disposal. Has anyone a photo of 1431 (Croes Newydd) in the 1950's please? I need to know if it had top feed and if it carried lined green.

I've had a quick search and 1431 seems to be one of the more elusive 14xx's and I found 3 photos but none were ideal:

1. In a works (didn't look like SDN) still with GWR on the tanks but a B.R. smokebox plate.

2. @ Clarbeston Rd. 4/11/53 old crest, top feed, must be black at this date 87J shedplate.

3. Undated @ Berkeley Rd. but colour so late 50's early 60's? Appeared to be still black with early crest and top feed (distant shot).

With this info I would tend to think that black/early crest/top feed would be correct for yours.

There was an auto working from Barmouth to Dolgelley which IIRC was worked by a Machynlleth 14xx outshedded at Penmaenpool - I wonder if they ever worked further East?

Hope this helps.

Ray.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Marshall5

[Jon Fitness]

That would have been me Larry.  I think you may have a photo there that has been misidentified as I'm certain that all 14xx had screw reverse.  I even think that I've seen that photo before and it was of 1369. 14xx don't have a tip up seat there but do have a bell and cab shutter which this doesn't have.

Hal, Peto is only partly correct with 1458 as it changed from top feed to non top feed between 1961 and 1963 but doesn't appear to have been repainted at that overhaul retaining its old crest.

Ray.

Does that regulator handle not have holes for connection to the push-pull gear? Not sure 1369 would have that.

JF

[Kev_Lewis]

Does that regulator handle not have holes for connection to the push-pull gear? Not sure 1369 would have that.

JF

 

Yes, she does: https://locoyard.com/heritage-railways/gallery/gallery-great-western-railway/#jp-carousel-1584

[t-b-g]

Yes, she does: https://locoyard.com/heritage-railways/gallery/gallery-great-western-railway/#jp-carousel-1584

 

Possibly a post preservation change, with a regulator handle being obtained from another loco. Or it may have been changed in railway service if a new handle was needed and the only one around at the time was of that pattern.

 

I only trust preserved locos for such details if I have no other source of information, as so many of them have had changes made since they were in railway service.

[Focalplane]

The Tiverton 14XX ought to be in original condition, perhaps not as 'perfect' as 46235 City of Birmingham, but this would the better 'go by', I would think. It hasn't moved very far in the last fifty years!

 

But there were so many subtle and frequent changes to these locos when on active duty and good photos do seem to be in short supply of one prototype at any one time.

 

I am sticking with 1459 as photographed at Oswestry and will not entertain any further modifications! No top feed.

[coachmann]

Thanks gents for your researches on my behalf.  Screw reverse it is then. It would be a shame not to give this little beauty lined green so i am going to have to go freelance on this one and pick a loco in green without top feed. The latter will be removed when the loco come back from sandblasting. The only GWR shed book I have dates from 1953, but these 14XX's moved around quite a bit judging by photo albums rather than official shed allocations. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by coachmann

[Marshall5]

I also tend to prefer the 14xx in lined green although my own will be 1466 (when I get round to ordering the plates) and that loco stayed in unlined black with the old crest and top feed throughout its B.R. career. For me the choice was easy as most of the body was factory painted and I'm lousy at lining.  I can see how the top feed appears "wrong" but dimensionally it's not far out - just the angular edges spoil it. I'm sure a bit of work with the Swiss files and emery to round off the corners would improve the look.  Then you could have Oswestry's 1458 in lined green - but only from about 1957 as,on 23/6/56 it was still black with no top feed! Complicated little critters aren't they?

I had a look on Shedbashuk (its not an allocation list but just a record of sightings) for 14xx at Croes Newydd in the early 50's and 1416 seemed to be there from 1950 to 1956 with 1465 (no top feed) seen on 15/6/58 along with 5810 the Bala - Blaenau regular.

Ray.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Marshall5

[coachmann]

I also tend to prefer the 14xx in lined green although my own will be 1466 (when I get round to ordering the plates) and that loco stayed in unlined black with the old crest and top feed throughout its B.R. career. For me the choice was easy as most of the body was factory painted and I'm lousy at lining.  I can see how the top feed appears "wrong" but dimensionally it's not far out - just the angular edges spoil it. I'm sure a bit of work with the Swiss files and emery to round off the corners would improve the look.  Then you could have Oswestry's 1458 in lined green - but only from about 1957 as,on 23/6/56 it was still black with no top feed! Complicated little critters aren't they?

I had a look on Shedbashuk (its not an allocation list but just a record of sightings) for 14xx at Croes Newydd in the early 50's and 1416 seemed to be there from 1950 to 1956 with 1465 (no top feed) seen on 15/6/58 along with 5810 the Bala - Blaenau regular.

Ray.

Thanks. 1465 (no top feed) sounds interesting then.....Back to the library haha...

Edited December 19, 2016 by coachmann

[Miss Prism]

About the best I could find for 14xx autogear:

 

 

 

[Hal Nail]

Thanks. 1465 (no top feed) sounds interesting then.....Back to the library haha...

Withdrawn relatively early in 9/58 apparently - not sure if it made it to green: trawled through my usual places but can't find a photo!

[kandc_au]

Larry,

Don't know if this is any help as the image on this page is B&W....there is also 1425.

https://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/tag/great-western-railway/

 

Khris

[coachmann]

About the best I could find for 14xx autogear:

Thank you. It gives me something to work off. It seems everything in life is Sods Law, as I could easily have shot the details I require earlier in the year.  

[coachmann]

Members have been very helpful and so i am going to repeat a query I put on my layout thread. A scale drawing of the front of Carrog station's main building would be useful if anyone knows of a source. The down waiting room is a standard GWR brick design and I could guess that one at a pinch.

[Marshall5]

Thanks. 1465 (no top feed) sounds interesting then.....Back to the library haha...

As I'm over 5000 miles away from most of my 'toys', it's too cold to go out and I didn't get organized in time to order any kits to build I've been Googling a lot!  I found another pic of 1465, withdrawn, at Swindon in 1959.  It seems the loco was withdrawn from Croes Newydd 30/9/58 and disposed of to Morcot Ltd Caerphilly on 30/4/59, presumably via Swindon. The photo shows the 'old' crest but I can't detect any lining so I assume it was probably black.

IIRC your modelling period was 1955-8 but, as the reversion to green for the 14xx only started about 1957, not many had been repainted by then. One, 1473 without top feed, was repainted in lined green with the 'new' crest before 17/8/58. Unfortunately by this time it was based at Gloucester - maybe one could invoke "Modeller's rule #1"?  For some reason more of the top feed fitted locos seem to be in lined green.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Hal Nail]

For some reason more of the top feed fitted locos seem to be in lined green.

Cheers,

Ray.

I suspect this isnt coincidence and is also linked to the fairly high number of green locos that reappeared without top feeds in the final few years. Is it that some locos, such as 1419 at Fowey, spent long periods doing light service on tucked away branches. They therefore needed less heavy maintenance so never had need of a top feed conversion or major work during which a repaint to green would otherwise have occurred - and then, on withdrawal, their boilers were in good nick so were cascaded to those still running?

 

Pure supposition but either way, lined green without topfeed is a lot easier in 1963 than earlier which seems totally counter intuitive!

Edited December 21, 2016 by Hal Nail

[Marshall5]

Whilst looking for photos of 1465 I came across some more of !458.  If the dates on the captions are correct (and I have no reason to doubt them) on 23/6/56 & 10/56 1458 was black with no top feed. By 1959 it was lined green with the old crest but carrying a top feed boiler which it carried to, at least, 1961. By 1963 it had reverted to a non top feed boiler but it hadn't been repainted and kept that livery and boiler to the end.  That seems an unusually short time between boiler changes - perhaps it developed a series issue?

One of the photos, taken at Welshpool on16/7/63, was from an elevated position and one could clearly see a small patch in the boiler cladding where the top feed had been. Obviously there were never enough top feed (and presumably newer) boilers to cover the whole class. Of the preserved 14xx's 1420 had no top feed until, at least the end of 1956 but certainly had one by the 60's. Conversely 1450 had a top feed in 1954 but had lost it by the 60's.

When attempting to model one of these beasties accurately the old advice of using a dated photo is never more true.

Ray.

[Hal Nail]

According to the 7mm thread, poor coachman is so perplexed by the thorny (but vital) top feed issue, the layout is changing to very early BR! Next we'll all be looking up which locos had the temporary British Railways wording...

[Miss Prism]

Looks to be too late for you now, but it's usually sensible practice to slice off all the absurd framing on the underside of plastic kit floors.

[coachmann]

Looks to be too late for you now, but it's usually sensible practice to slice off all the absurd framing on the underside of plastic kit floors.

Never built a Parkside before. Brute force & ignorance will sort it then.

[steam69]

Never built a Parkside before. Brute force & ignorance will sort it then.

Nothing wrong with the floor moulding, it looks as though you had the same brake shoe mouldings as I did, contact Parkside and they will replace them with the correct type (there was a batch produced with incorrect mouldings).

 

Richard

[coachmann]

Nothing wrong with the floor moulding, it looks as though you had the same brake shoe mouldings as I did, contact Parkside and they will replace them with the correct type (there was a batch produced with incorrect mouldings).

 

Richard

Thanks, that's worth knowing. i have already marked out where to machine parts away. I dont want to come down in the morning and find this job on my desk. 

[Andrew P]

Happy New Year Larry to you and your Family.

 

Neat job there mate.